Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       4       end
  

Archive 2012 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)

  
 
TeamSpeed
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


The great thing is that you cannot lose with any of the 3 you are looking at, they are all great and have their strengths.

I like the 1D4 first, the 7D second, and the 1D3 last. The 1D3 is great, but I always kept hitting its low resolution when I would do any kind of wildlife or band competition from the stands, but loved the IQ. The 7D eeks it out due to its resolution and added "reach".

These 7D shots may not be the sharpest, but it is not the 7D, it is the Sigma 50-500 OS lens, it is my least sharp lens of what all I own.







This was at 6400, and I am not very pleased on how it turned out, given my experience with high ISO on all my cameras, I was not careful with the settings, and this is the one downfall with the 7D. If you are not careful with where you put your histogram at 6400/12800, you will be penalized a bit in IQ, otherwise, the images will come out nicely.




Aug 11, 2012 at 09:59 PM
mikeengles
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


Hello Anthony

Thanks for giving your opinion about the 7D. I cannot agree more.

Mike Engles



Aug 13, 2012 at 04:35 PM
Pixel Perfect
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


Jase1125 wrote:
Personally I fail to see why a pro body will do better simply because it is pro. Fact is I have owned the 7D along with a 1D3 and 1D4. While noise is *slightly* better with the 1D3, the 7D resolves more detail and is a better choice for focal length limited shooting. With that said, your post processing technique will have to be adjusted for the 7D. Proper post processing will yield more detailed images over a 1D3 in my experience.


Because you get even more detail with a properly focussed shot. In servo mode the 1D III/IV are simply better. They acquire a lock faster and are more stable in longer bursts. I still enjoy using the 7D but for critical action work if I'm not FL limited or at least not too much, I'll always go for the 1 series. Basically it boils down to keeper rates. The 7D is more variable and can range between 60-95% keepers, while the 1 series seem to stay in the 85-95% range. For more normal action the 7D AF is fine and I will still use it for fast action, but I now shoot short bursts and reacquire focus.

I agree that the 7D can produce amazing detail at lower iso and for me at least I could not imagine not having it in addition to a 1 series body. If they could just put the 5D III AF in it and improve noise 1 stop across the board it would be sensational.



Aug 13, 2012 at 05:26 PM
Jase1125
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


Pixel Perfect wrote:
Because you get even more detail with a properly focussed shot. In servo mode the 1D III/IV are simply better. They acquire a lock faster and are more stable in longer bursts. I still enjoy using the 7D but for critical action work if I'm not FL limited or at least not too much, I'll always go for the 1 series. Basically it boils down to keeper rates. The 7D is more variable and can range between 60-95% keepers, while the 1 series seem to stay in the 85-95% range. For more normal action the 7D AF is fine
...Show more

I never had a problem betting properly in focused shots if I did my job. All I shoot is sports and wildlife and I didn't find a significant difference in ai servo performance.



Aug 13, 2012 at 05:53 PM
uz2work
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


Jase1125 wrote:
I never had a problem betting properly in focused shots if I did my job. All I shoot is sports and wildlife and I didn't find a significant difference in ai servo performance.


That is pretty much my experience, too. While I'm sure that the AF on my 1D Mark IV is (somewhat) better than that on the 7D, the difference is not so great that I feel like I'm compromising my ability to get the shots when I'm using the 7D. During the last month, when I've been using the 7D exclusively as I've tried to follow around and document the eagle fledgling that I've been watching, I've had numerous times when I've taken bursts of action shots with very busy backgrounds, and the only out-of-focus shots that I've had have been when I've failed to keep the selected focus point(s) on the subject. My shooting style is actually quite deliberate. Even when action shot opportunities crop up unexpectedly, instead of just raising the camera and firing away, I make sure I've properly locked in focus, and, if/when I sense that I've lost contact between the focus point and the subject, I back off and re-acquire focus, and, with that technique, the AF on my 7D has done everything I could ask of it.

When I choose between using the 1D Mark IV and the 7D, other factors besides AF become more important. When I'm focal length limited, the 7D is the choice. When I want portability and need focal length the 7D with my 400 DO is the choice. If neither of those two situations is the case, I'll generally choose to use the 1D Mark IV, but, again, when I do use the 7D, I don't worry about the AF letting me down.

And with regard to resolving detail in focal length-limited situations, that is where the 7D really shines. I know that, for the kind of shots that I want to be taking, I would not want to by using my 1D Mark IV unless I had at least a 500 mm lens available to me. And I would not want to be using a 1D Mark III or 1DX (which has pixel density similar to the 1D Mark III) unless I had at least a 600 mm lens available to me. Yet, the 7D gives serious reach with 400 mm. And I know that the kind of pictures that appeal to me involve shooting wider than many who who shoot wildlife. For those who like to shoot tighter, even more focal length is needed with a lower pixel density body. And, while I accept the fact that my 1-serious bodies have had advantages with things like build quality and ability to customize them, I have found nothing magical with regard to being able to get quality images besides the kind of snob appeal that one feels the need for after reading posts on internet forums.

I know that there are many whose skills as a photographer are at much higher levels than are mine, but, when I look at the high quality images that are being taken every day by people with the 7D, statements to the effect that you cannot take those high quality images with a 7D maintain no credibility whatever.

Les





Aug 13, 2012 at 06:39 PM
dhlewis
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


Very good thread have been evaluating exactly the same question the last couple of weeks. In my case I have a 1D3 and 7D along with the non IS versions of the 300 2.8 and the 500 4.5. In the case of the 500 it will autofocus with the 1D and the 1.4X but the 7D will not. Thoughts on using the 500/1D 3 with the extender vs the 500/7D without? I'm still early in my testing but I'm leaning toward the 500/7D being slightly better. But I need to test the 1D setup again and compare more closely.


Aug 15, 2012 at 02:25 AM
Pixel Perfect
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


dhlewis wrote:
Very good thread have been evaluating exactly the same question the last couple of weeks. In my case I have a 1D3 and 7D along with the non IS versions of the 300 2.8 and the 500 4.5. In the case of the 500 it will autofocus with the 1D and the 1.4X but the 7D will not. Thoughts on using the 500/1D 3 with the extender vs the 500/7D without? I'm still early in my testing but I'm leaning toward the 500/7D being slightly better. But I need to test the 1D setup again and compare more closely.


7D + 500 still has significant reach advantage over 1D III + 500 + 1.4x and will have the better AF, although the latter is still very good from my experience. I get great results from both combos with or without 1.4x TC attached.



Aug 15, 2012 at 04:37 AM
uz2work
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


Pixel Perfect wrote:
7D + 500 still has significant reach advantage over 1D III + 500 + 1.4x and will have the better AF, although the latter is still very good from my experience. I get great results from both combos with or without 1.4x TC attached.


I agree with Dwayne about the advantage of using a 7D and 500 over using a 1D Mark III and a 500 plus a 1.4x, but, even with my 1D Mark IV, one of the several situations when I will choose to use the 7D over the 1D Mark IV is if my choice would be to use the 1D Mark IV with the 500 plus a 1.4x or to use the 7D with the bare 500. The 7D with the bare 500 will put almost the same number of pixels on the subject as the 1D Mark IV and 500 plus the 1.4x, but the 7D combination avoids any image quality loss that results from the use of the 1.4x, avoids the AF slowing that results from use of the 1.4x, and perhaps most important, allows me to shoot 1 stop faster, which means either shutter speeds up to 2 times faster, lower ISO, or some combination of the two. And those advantages more than make up for any relatively minor image quality advantage that the 1D Mark IV might start out with over the 7D.

Further, the advantages are even greater for the 7D combination if the choice is to use the 1D Mark IV with the 500 and a 2x or to use the 7D with the 500 and a 1.4x because of the much greater image quality hit that results from using a 2x extender.

Les



Aug 15, 2012 at 06:22 AM
Garylv
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


Nozzleforward wrote:
Man, I think the thing I like most when I post a thread like this is all of the awesome example shots everyone posts up!


Nice, aren't they? Good results tend to come from good photographers, with almost any gear they use.

I have two 1D III's and a 7D, shoot surfing, some other sports and wildlife. Although the 1D III creates beautiful photos, the 7D goes with me for distant subjects. The sensor crop factor, and the 18 megapixels holds up to additional cropping pretty well when needed.

With just a little processing I can make the 7D photos look very close to the 1D III photos. The 7D has a slightly harsher appearance to me, but it doesn't take much to clean that up. It can look very good. That would be my choice. The spot focus is nice too for that application.




Aug 15, 2012 at 07:54 AM
palmor
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


I have both and you really can't go wrong with either one. I find the AF a little faster to lock on the 1d III but tracking is very similar. High ISO is a little easier to clean up with the 1d but the 7d goes to 12,800 and can be usable depending on situation and what your final product will be (smaller prints and/or screen it is fine).

One a side note the topic is interesting to me because since I bought a 5d III I'm trying to decide which to sell (my 7d or 1d III) and I haven't been able to make a decision because I really like both.

Key differences IMO:
1d III: AF@f8 (I prefer the magnification of a TC over cropping). My 7d will not focus with the taped pin trick at all.
1d III: Dual Card Slots
1d III: Slight advantage at high ISO
1d III: Slight AF advantage
1d III: Better weather sealing
1d III: HUGE battery life
7d: MUCH better rear LCD (I know it shouldn't matter but I really hate the LCD of the 1d)
7d: Smaller
7d: Use of EF-S lenses
7d: Cropping

Canon EOS-1D Mark III ,Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM, Kenko 1.4x TC
1/1250s, f/10 at 560mm, ISO 800
http://www.pbase.com/palmor/image/132285382/original.jpg

Canon EOS 7D ,Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM
1/800s f/6.3 at 400.0mm iso800
http://www.pbase.com/palmor/image/125269353/original.jpg


7d at ISO 12,800 which was good up to an 8x10 print (NR on post done)

Canon EOS 7D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM
1/800s f/2.8 at 130.0mm iso12800
http://www.pbase.com/palmor/image/139758559/original.jpg

Same venue with the 1d @ISO6400 (NR done again)

Canon EOS 1D ,Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM
1/640s f/2.8 at 200.0mm iso6400
http://www.pbase.com/palmor/image/132596388/original.jpg



Aug 15, 2012 at 08:45 AM
OwlsEyes
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


Like others, I have owned both the 1DIII and the 7D. I love the ergonomics and robust character of the 1-series bodies, but chose the 7D over the 1DIII for two key reasons.
1: I am focal length limited. I want the best long-tele glass but did not want to invest in older non-IS lenses. It's not the lack of IS that bothered me, it's the "focus by-wire" nature of the 500 f4.5 (option 2 in a $3000-$4000 lens). In the end, I settled on the 300 f2.8IS L. This lens takes a 1.4x converter well but does not meet my requisites with a 2x. Many of the great photographs you have seen in this thread were taken with 500 IS, 600 IS, or 800 IS lenses. if your base focal length is in the super-tele range, then a 1.3 crop or non-crop body can meet the needs of wildlife photography. However, the OP indicated that he is going to buy a 300mm f4IS + converter. The difference between getting a reasonably acceptable framed image with the 1.3 crop v a 1.6 crop is quite profound.

I'll offer a quick example: In 2008 and went on safari in Tanzania with 1DmarkII (loved that camera/hated the batteries) and a 5D. I kept my 300 f2.8 + 1.4x converter on the mark II for the duration of the trip. In 2010 I went on safari in Kenya with a 7D and 5D. During the Kenya safari I did all of my tele work with the 7D + 300 f2.8 without a converter. The capacity to shoot wildlife without a converter improved my keeper rate due to faster autofocus and provided me with more detail due to the high resolution sensor.

Point 2: When deciding which to pitch (sell) I knew that I would be replacing the camera with a new model full frame sensor camera (my 5D v1 had been beaten up through the years). If I sold the 7D, I would need to purchase a 1Ds II or III for consistency in operation. If I chose to sell the 1DIII, I could buy the 5DII... use the same batteries and have the same menu/OS. Clearly, I opted to sell the 1DIII... my focal length limit and desire for a consistent platform were more important to me than the advantages of owning two heavier 1-series body.

Final point... if you are exclusively into small bird & flying bird photography (by far the most popular form of wildlife photography in the fm nature forum), then the 1DIII for fast AI-servo is the BEST option... however, be prepared to invest in a 500 f4 IS or bigger, as you will find yourself to be frustrated with a 300mm lens.
cheers,
bruce



Aug 15, 2012 at 09:18 AM
RobertLynn
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


I have owned 3 1DIII's. It was to keep two though (long story).

I have owned 2 7D's.

I currently own 2 1dIV's and 1 7D.

The 7D IMHO if not a better camera, is surely on par with the 1DIII, and you get the newer features with it.



Aug 15, 2012 at 09:31 AM
uz2work
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


palmor wrote:
One a side note the topic is interesting to me because since I bought a 5d III I'm trying to decide which to sell (my 7d or 1d III) and I haven't been able to make a decision because I really like both.

Key differences IMO:
1d III: AF@f8 (I prefer the magnification of a TC over cropping). My 7d will not focus with the taped pin trick at all.
lenses
7d: Cropping


While I have no trouble at all agreeing that there are (some) valid advantages that the 1D Mark III has over the 7D, saying that the 1D Mark III has an advantage because of f8 auto focus is completely invalid.

As both Pixel Perfect and I explained in posts further up the page, if you use your 400/5.6 without a converter on the 7D, you will still be putting, by a large margin, more pixels on your subject than if you are using that 400/5.6 with a 1.4x on the 1D Mark III, and, with the 7D and bare 400, you will have the advantages of faster AF, image quality not degraded by the 1.4x, and 1 stop of exposure that will allow up to twice the shutter speed, lower ISO, or some combination of the two. Thus, with the 7D, you get key performance advantages without needing f8 AF.

Les



Aug 15, 2012 at 11:04 AM
palmor
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


uz2work wrote:
While I have no trouble at all agreeing that there are (some) valid advantages that the 1D Mark III has over the 7D, saying that the 1D Mark III has an advantage because of f8 auto focus is completely invalid.

As both Pixel Perfect and I explained in posts further up the page, if you use your 400/5.6 without a converter on the 7D, you will still be putting, by a large margin, more pixels on your subject than if you are using that 400/5.6 with a 1.4x on the 1D Mark III, and, with the 7D and bare 400,
...Show more

In my personal testing I found the opposite so we will have to agree to disagree . I've found more detail with the 1.4x TC because of the magnification then the bare lens on the 7d.



Aug 15, 2012 at 11:46 AM
M Lucca
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


Well Imagemaster says it, that does it for me. Just look at his birdie photos! Astounding! The 7D is a capable camera. It does everything a 1d3 can and more to take moving critters.

Heck you can switch to video mode if you want to capture a sequence. Spot AF on all AF point is really great too if you want pin point accuracy. Noise is perceived to be slightly better because the 1d3 has a meagre 10MP vs 18MP of hi-res detail. With FW 2.0, the 7d seems to be that much better.

Objectively speaking it seems the 7d is the better camera. Slap a grip if you have a small camera syndrome.



Aug 15, 2012 at 12:31 PM
ruhikant
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


I had three 1d3 and all of them had AF issues in bright light, so getting a good 1D3 is not that easy.


Every time I thought of selling my 7D, I always look at our own Glenn's Gallery just to make me realize what 7D can do in the hands of a good photographer.

http://www.glennbartley.com/naturephotography/articles/the%20best%20of%202011.html



Aug 15, 2012 at 01:02 PM
artsupreme
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


I have both and the only time I'll use the 7D is if I'm FL limited or have to pack a light load...1D3 wins for everything else.


Aug 15, 2012 at 01:33 PM
uz2work
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


Every time I shoot with the 7D in focal length-limited situations, I'm reminded of what a great tool it is. Below are some examples from this morning's shooting. As I've been doing for 6 weeks, I was following around the eagle fledgling whose nest I had watched for the previous 4 months. Had I been using my 1D Mark IV, I would have needed to use my 500/4 to get these shots. Had I been using a 1D Mark III or a 1DX, I would have needed a 600/4. But I had to work my way through the brush and marsh for several hours, and there is no way that I was going to do that with a 500 or 600 mm lens. Instead, I used the 7D with my 400 DO. Had I tried to use the 400 DO with the 1D Mark IV, I would have needed to use a 1.4x, which would have meant degraded image quality, slower AF, and, because of the loss of stop, shutter speeds too slow to capture the action. Had I been using a 1D Mark III with the DO, I would have needed a 2x, and that would have been a disaster on many counts.

I'm not sure what more I could ask of a camera in focal length-limited situations than what I get from the 7D.

First, 3 consecutive shots from a burst of 7, all of which the camera allowed me to get in focus even with the busy background.

1.
http://www.wildlifeimagesbyles.net/db_IMG_4041eagle-nest-8-15-121.jpg

2.
http://www.wildlifeimagesbyles.net/db_IMG_4042eagle-nest-8-15-121.jpg

3.
http://www.wildlifeimagesbyles.net/db_IMG_4043eagle-nest-8-15-121.jpg

Two from another burst.

4.
http://www.wildlifeimagesbyles.net/db_IMG_4055eagle-nest-8-15-121.jpg

5.
http://www.wildlifeimagesbyles.net/db_IMG_4056eagle-nest-8-15-121.jpg

And two more.

6.
http://www.wildlifeimagesbyles.net/db_IMG_4022eagle-nest-8-15-121.jpg

7.
http://www.wildlifeimagesbyles.net/db_IMG_4025eagle-nest-8-15-121.jpg

Les

Edited on Aug 15, 2012 at 02:55 PM · View previous versions



Aug 15, 2012 at 02:24 PM
Rune
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


uz2work wrote:
Every time I shoot with the 7D in focal length-limited situations, I'm reminded of what a great tool it is. Below are some examples from this morning's shooting. As I've been doing for 6 weeks, I was following around the eagle fledgling whose nest I had watched for the previous 4 months. Had I been using my 1D Mark IV, I would have needed to use my 500/4 to get these shots. Had I been using a 1D Mark III, I would have needed a 600/4. But I had to work my way through the brush and marsh for several
...Show more

Absolutely great images! great inspiration!

(one could possible argue though that picture number 7 would have been better with a 1.3x crop than a 1.6x crop... ;-P )



Aug 15, 2012 at 02:49 PM
uz2work
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · 7D vs. 1D3 for wildlife work (input needed)


Rune wrote:
Absolutely great images! great inspiration!

(one could possible argue though that picture number 7 would have been better with a 1.3x crop than a 1.6x crop... ;-P )


You are absolutely right, but, for every time the field of view is too narrow and I clip the wings, I'm sure that there would be 10 or 20 times where, if I had a wider field of view, I wouldn't be putting enough pixels on the subject to get what I wanted. In any case, I thought that the cropped picture had some redeeming value in showing the power in the bird's talons. (At least, that's my story, and I'm sticking with it. )

Les



Aug 15, 2012 at 02:58 PM
1      
2
       3       4       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1      
2
       3       4       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.