p.5 #1 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?
Pixel Perfect wrote:
While the 7D is a nice camera the IQ of Canon's APS-C sensors is still not as good as their APS-H let alone FF. Given the new 650D sensor shows bascially zero improvement over the 600D/60D/7D sensor I don't expect any improvements for a 7D II if it remains in this format. APS-H would be an ideal upgrade for the 7D II along with 5D III AF and would be a nice replacement when the 1D IV stops production. I'm willing to give up some reach but not as much as you lose with 1D X.
I do expect a new camera by the end of 2013 filling the hole left by the 1D4 and 7D. New long lens prices will contribute to that demand. Sensor probably up in the air at this time.
p.5 #2 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?
uz2work wrote:
There is one other factor that is often overlooked when discussing the advantages of an APS-H camera with higher pixel density over a FF camera with lower pixel density in focal length-limited situations. I've seen some, including earlier in this thread, tout the advantages of the 1DX over the 1D Mark IV with regard to noise at higher ISO. However, when you crop, you are magnifying any imperfections, including noise, in the image. Thus, if you are shooting regularly in focal length-limited situations and if you were were going to have to routinely severely crop the images from a 1DX, you would be essentially throwing away any marginal noise advantages that the 1DX would otherwise have if you had not needed to do the cropping.
Exactly. Let's consider the 1D X and 1D IV and if we are FL limited and crop 1D X down to 1D IV FOV we only get 10.8MP. If we then scale the 1D X back up to 16MP or scale the 1D IV down to 10.8MP the 1D IV will show an advantage in detail and noise will be much closer, although 1D X may still be cleaner at very high ISO > 6400, not that I would shoot often at that for wildlife anyway.
p.5 #3 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?
Rusty1 wrote:
I do expect a new camera by the end of 2013 filling the hole left by the 1D4 and 7D. New long lens prices will contribute to that demand. Sensor probably up in the air at this time.
I can easily see a replacement to the 7D next year but given Canon's adamant statements about combining the 1D series we won't be seeing a replacement to the 1D4 until the 1DX2. The 7D is a nice camera but it's not a 1D4 unless they seriously upgrade the build.
p.5 #4 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?
A full frame 40 MP or higher sensor combined with latest CPU processing technology for fast fps will solve all those problems. Canon, just bring on new full frame DSLR models and let's forget about 1Dx and 5DIII!
p.5 #5 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?
retrofocus wrote:
A full frame 40 MP or higher sensor combined with latest CPU processing technology for fast fps will solve all those problems. Canon, just bring on new full frame DSLR models and let's forget about 1Dx and 5DIII!
But, even when processing technology allows for a 40 MP full frame body that can shoot at 10 fps, that same processor technology would allow for a 24 MP 1.3 crop body that could shoot at 16 fps and have a buffer depth that is significantly deeper and would, thus, better meet the needs of those who shoot action in focal length-limited situations. The reality is that, regardless of the state of processor technology, for those who shoot in focal length-limited situations, the 1.3 crop body will always allow for the advantage of higher frame rates and deeper buffer than a full frame body with the same pixel density. The only question is, at what level will the processor technology be such that the frame rate and buffer depth of the full frame body are such that no one could ever want more. I suggest that we are not even close to that point.
p.5 #6 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?
Look for an October 2013 announcement for that body with release sometime in 2016 in the $12K -$14K range. Let's hope we can see the active AF point by then.
p.5 #7 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?
ggreene wrote:
Look for an October 2013 announcement for that body with release sometime in 2016 in the $12K -$14K range. Let's hope we can see the active AF point by then.
Totally unrealistic estimate. I would expect seeing some high MP full frame camera announced end of 2012 or beginning 2013 latest. Price-wise it will be in the range of the D800, maybe a bit higher if Canon decides to include other improved features, too. It's Canon only way to get back leadership in the (semi-)professional DSLR market.
p.5 #8 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?
I was being a little bit sarcastic there (notice the smiley) and you are changing the criteria now. A D800-like body sure as hell isn't going to replace a 1D4 at 4 FPS. If Canon announces a FF body with 40MP sensor at 10FPS in late 2012 that is a TOTAL admission that the 1DX is an abject failure. I don't look for those stats anytime soon and certainly not at D800 pricing.
p.5 #9 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?
ggreene wrote:
I was being a little bit sarcastic there (notice the smiley) and you are changing the criteria now. A D800-like body sure as hell isn't going to replace a 1D4 at 4 FPS. If Canon announces a FF body with 40MP sensor at 10FPS in late 2012 that is a TOTAL admission that the 1DX is an abject failure. I don't look for those stats anytime soon and certainly not at D800 pricing.
Well of course digic V+ cannot handle 10fps @ 40MP so it's not even a consideration. If such a camera exists it will be 5-5.5fps.
I don't expect any such camera in 1 series or 5 series this year. 60D replacement and an answer to D600 would be far more pressing for them. Then we need 7D replacement early next year.
p.5 #10 · Will there ever be APS-H in a compact body?
i'd say "yes" to the statement that APSH still coud be a smart solution combining IQ, speed and reach in a relatively economic and light package.
but now Canon and Nikon are in a max-MP race and a high iso race.
i agree that 1D3/1D4 quality (low iso DR, pleasing color rendition, satisfying high iso performance) is better than any APSC system. i like this quality mix a lot and will not need to buy a 5D3 to replace one of them.
i bet that according a hypothetical canon roadmap we will see a a 1Dx Mark II with increased MP and people will get their pixel density. compared to a smaller APSH sensor it will be simply possible to use higher iso's like constantly iso6400 +x in a sport or low light event shooting. but that stuff will remain very expensive and all what left is the 5D and the coming low budget FF segment - and a ultra high 7Dx.
