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Archive 2012 · The right way to get into wedding photography

  
 
deepbluejh
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p.2 #1 · The right way to get into wedding photography


Inku Yo wrote:
Having good photography isn't enough. So, just because there are young and hungry photographer that is super creative and has images that knock your socks off, it doesn't mean that they know squat about running a business or customer service or have the right personality or temperament to work with people. You need to have the "total package."

Excuse the super long run-on sentence. Hahah.


You need to have the total package for what? To run a successful photography business for any extended period of time - yes. To completely disrupt the price structure of the market, no.

With these amateurs, when one of them fails, three more take their place. You don't need longevity to completely mess with the market. That should be evident as we speak.




Jul 25, 2012 at 10:41 AM
Inku Yo
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p.2 #2 · The right way to get into wedding photography


deepbluejh wrote:
You need to have the total package for what? To run a successful photography business for any extended period of time - yes. To completely disrupt the price structure of the market, no.

With these amateurs, when one of them fails, three more take their place. You don't need longevity to completely mess with the market. That should be evident as we speak.



I don't feel that effect, sorry.



Jul 25, 2012 at 10:58 AM
marti.g3
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p.2 #3 · The right way to get into wedding photography


XX



Jul 25, 2012 at 11:00 AM
Marcus Watts
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p.2 #4 · The right way to get into wedding photography


Make friends with other photographers. Make yourself known on forums and make your intent known, that you would love to assist or second shoot with as a way to get your experience and skill level up.

The idea that no one will help you is not true if you network. Make friends with working professionals.




Jul 25, 2012 at 11:23 AM
RobertLynn
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p.2 #5 · The right way to get into wedding photography


tag


Jul 27, 2012 at 08:53 PM
dmacmillan
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p.2 #6 · The right way to get into wedding photography


cineski wrote:
And take people like David Jay. He doesn't even shoot weddings anymore. He's a preacher.

No, he's an unqualified huckster peddling bad religion.



Jul 28, 2012 at 09:12 AM
whtrbt7
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p.2 #7 · The right way to get into wedding photography


Wow, I go away for 10 days to shoot and this place explodes. Nice to see some good discussion on where the market is heading. I'm a newbie so I may be adding fuel to the fire to the photography industry. Part of the reason for a lot of new entrants is the economy and where things are headed in terms of overall service and living expenses. It's getting tougher and tougher to service people due to new pricing from people that will even shoot weddings for free. A lot of these newcomers are also decently talented. A lot of the older wedding photographers are being pushed out of the business due to old expectations of quality and the way they function. The market has changed dramatically within the last 10 years. While I'm really new to this business, I can see how people that have been in this business about 5-10 years would feel about some of the newcomers. It's more competition for a set pool of weddings per year. While this may affect some photographers, other photographers that are already booked out the wazoo (you know who you are, because you probably don't even visit this forum very often) will willingly give business to associates. Networking is a great tool and having the drive to move companies forward is what a lot of photography companies are looking for. It doesn't always take interning or second shooting or even solo shooting to start up a company. All it takes is willpower and the desire to put out quality product.

As a newer photography company just getting set up, it's a pretty big change for me. I didn't intern or second shoot or even assist. I just jumped into the market and started swimming. I look to make every wedding and every shoot special from the start. I also market to clients a bit differently from what a lot of photographers normally do. I didn't see a set structure of competence or merit-based structure in the market so for me, training myself, funding the gear, funding the operations, and marketing to clients were done ad-hoc and I built relationships with clients (but can't get them onto my FB page for anything lol). I got to know some photographers in my area and befriended them. I'm always looking to learn more about what people do and how they operate compared to how I operate. I see what works for me and what doesn't work or hasn't worked yet. I feel that it's an industry where you can continually innovate and improve skills that may not be existent. I don't see any certification level for the industry which makes it a little murkier for different photographers but I think what matters most is customer service and just that you're taking care of a part of people's weddings that they will keep for their lifetime. While it would be great to have a certification process, I think the results would still be the same and customers would still want what they want. Some customers just don't care to spend much money but want to have a 2nd rate photographer. Hell, I was one of those people. I however also spent money on a second shoot with a pro that was pretty good. If you're looking to enter the industry, just do it to make the best thing you possibly can. Success is just failure rounded up anyways. Go big or go home is what I'm trying to say.



Jul 29, 2012 at 08:04 PM
sboerup
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p.2 #8 · The right way to get into wedding photography


I jumped right in, but I think at the time it was a less saturated market (2006). If I were to give advice to anyone serious about becoming a wedding photographer...

1. You have to really WANT to own a business. Being a photographer is a lot less about being creative, but more about knowing how to run a business.
2. Your work really doesn't matter as much as you think (see above). I think, in this industry, it is more rare that your work is what attracts people. Perception is everything. I know more mediocre photographers that are extremely successful than I know amazing photographers that are half as successful.
3. Perception is everything (worth repeating). The price you charge is not dictated by your work or your product. You can literally pick any price you want to charge and then go from there and learn how to back it up and present yourself. So don't think you need to start low and work your way up. You pick your destiny.
4. After a few years you need to realize you don't have a business that you can sell...so plan for your retirement early and acknowledge that you might be doing this for a very long time, and, do you want to be in that situation?



Jul 30, 2012 at 12:20 AM
jolahern
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p.2 #9 · The right way to get into wedding photography


sboerup wrote:
2. Your work really doesn't matter as much as you think (see above). I think, in this industry, it is more rare that your work is what attracts people. Perception is everything. I know more mediocre photographers that are extremely successful than I know amazing photographers that are half as successful.


This is the one thing that is really hitting me, you have to learn to see your work and business from the client view point, not a photographer's view point.

John



Jul 30, 2012 at 04:21 AM
Gary Harfield
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p.2 #10 · The right way to get into wedding photography


If every Wedding Venue required proof of insurance, I bet 25% of Wedding Photographers would be out of work.


Jul 30, 2012 at 06:50 AM
ricardovaste
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p.2 #11 · The right way to get into wedding photography


Gary Harfield wrote:
If every Wedding Venue required proof of insurance, I bet 25% of Wedding Photographers would be out of work.


Really ? I don't know any that don't have full insurance. I guess it would cut out those that have a dSLR & kit lens posing at a photographer of sorts, which may indeed be your point!



Jul 30, 2012 at 06:56 AM
canerino
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p.2 #12 · The right way to get into wedding photography


Marcus Watts wrote:
Make friends with other photographers. Make yourself known on forums and make your intent known, that you would love to assist or second shoot with as a way to get your experience and skill level up.

The idea that no one will help you is not true if you network. Make friends with working professionals.



this is a very simplified (and accurate) version of how i broke in.

hell, 3 years ago, i was posting personal family work. i made connections here. started second shooting. started my own wedding studio. became an associate photographer.

i think the major difference for me is that i didnt plan any of it. it all sort of just happened. but one thing i think i did well was put myself in a position (not deliberately) to seize opportunities.

its all worked out for me. i dont know if its the 'right' way to do it, but it has felt right (for me and others around me) at every step of the way.



Jul 30, 2012 at 08:33 AM
joosay
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p.2 #13 · The right way to get into wedding photography


i met my first wedding photographer from this forum and through third shooting with him, i was able to second shoot with other photographers. after a full year of mostly second shooting (about 40 weddings), i took the plunge and started my own. i'm still very very new and still have a long way to go but networking with established wedding photographers was key for me to progress (in terms of experience/skill and handling the business side).


Jul 30, 2012 at 08:45 AM
whtrbt7
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p.2 #14 · The right way to get into wedding photography


It's great to hear others starting up new businesses. IMO competition breeds excellence. I also agree that owning your own business is a big part of it but I'm starting to see reasons why wedding photographers should group up and develop a "house style" so that they don't have to do all of the different business aspects. Liability insurance, accounting, financing, and marketing all work better when there is a larger group benefitting from the activities. I also see a lot of benefit in those entering the market as "Service Professionals" instead of "Artists". I don't consider myself an artist because I focus more on service which most times means that I have more "inexpensive" clientele. I enjoy what I do for them because it not only pays the bills, but it also feeds the soul. I also have higher priced options for a la carte people but that's a point of service, not an ego feeder. Overall, I think it was more important for me to take a look at my packages and ask myself: "Would I buy that as a consumer?" If you're starting a new company to compete in terms of service, I would definitely say "welcome to the biz." If you're in the photography business for money, you'll probably be better off in another industry.


Jul 30, 2012 at 03:28 PM
Rusty-Tripod
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p.2 #15 · The right way to get into wedding photography


I am beginning to observe that many individuals do not value or appreciate photography, good or bad. I am also beginning to think that engaged couples choose their photographer based upon BFF referrals and/or price more than quality, unless there is an implied emphasis upon choice relative to one's social or financial status.

Wedding images do not seem to vary much from one wedding to another nowadays, and a high fee does not guarantee that those taken at a higher rate are better than those shot lower price shooters or newbies. In fact, I am seeing a lot of stagnation in posts by some of the "named" or rockstar photographers.

I am also seeing shooters who seem to simply have bought a camera, have gone to work, and are having clients.

One of David Jay's protegees spoke at our recent SmugMeeting. Her career is driven by the BFF phenomenon and social status. Her clients seem to adore her, but the quality of her work can be had for a lesser fee. So it seems to be that one does not need certification. licensing, education as much as one needs a great personality, strong social connections, guts, and the ability to keep people from noticing the quality of your camera.



Jul 31, 2012 at 09:28 AM
joosay
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p.2 #16 · The right way to get into wedding photography


the bff phenomenon has been around for a long, long time.


Jul 31, 2012 at 09:31 AM
whtrbt7
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p.2 #17 · The right way to get into wedding photography


In this economy, price seems to be a major concern now. I get a lot of requests everyday to do shoots for a fraction of the price. Some people have really been hit hard with the 2008 financial crisis and people are still losing jobs in the US. I cut some deals here and there because the times currently make us who we are. I've seen photographers (not the Rockstars) charge a LOT more and the results are pretty poor. I would rather over-deliver on a cheaper wedding and have people happy rather than the alternative. As I said above, there's no problem with people entering the industry, it's just the people that are unprepared to do what it takes to be a success and be excellent photographers. To me, being an excellent photographer means delivering a customer experience that is impossible to match. The most important thing to me is the happiness and satisfaction of my customers. I give a 100% cash back guarantee if the clients are unhappy.


Jul 31, 2012 at 01:13 PM
Sergio Mottola
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p.2 #18 · The right way to get into wedding photography


remember that the "bff phenomenon" also known as "being likable and sociable" exists in every form of business and government...


Jul 31, 2012 at 01:19 PM
Rusty-Tripod
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p.2 #19 · The right way to get into wedding photography


If the focus of a wedding shoot is relationships, then BFF as "being likable and sociable" is acceptable, but it is not in any way a guarantee of quality and/or skill. The shooter could be little more than a high priced Uncle Bob (or Aunt Bobbie). And, no, I do not see any real problems with Uncle Bobs in the industry. However, some of these BFF shooters feel self-assured and justified by the fact that they are getting paid as a photographer. Realistically, some of the BFF shooters have progressed to being rockstars and now have become the educators in the industry.


Aug 01, 2012 at 09:43 AM
GateCityPhotog
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p.2 #20 · The right way to get into wedding photography


cineski wrote:
A photographer that's better than a $5000 photographer who's charging $1500-3000 is just plain stupid . That's the entire plight of my point. I'm trying to teach the newcomers that are actually good that they're worth a lot more than they think.



Stupid? Says who?

I'll offer some insight from someone who's been there and done that. This post is going to be long, but it is a wakeup call for those in denial, and an eye opening inside look from someone that has been there and doesn't need income from photography to feed his family.

I began having an interest in wedding photography about 7-8 years ago. You know, back in the good 'ole days

I had (still have) a day job and was/am making very good money in my profession. I did not need wedding photography income in any way, shape or form. I very much enjoyed taking photographs. I purchased my first DSLR (a Canon 1D MK I) back in 2002 so that I could photograph my toddler son. I paid $5,500+ for that body way back then. Add to that quite a substantial sum of money for some decent glass, and voila, I had a very nice photography kit. I shot some junior golf for a while, and didn't earn enough money to pay for the gasoline and hotels, and I worked my arse off. I then gave that up and moved on. It was a fun venture for a while, but I'm glad I didn't have to feed my family on that income.

Next, my current wife and I were planning our wedding to take place in 2005 (this was 2004 'ish). As the wedding bug began to bite, and with it all of the excitement of having a wedding, I got the idea that I would shoot part of my own wedding (just some getting ready and reception type shots in a very limited fashion), though we hired a pro to shoot the wedding for us. Thing is, my gear was WAY better than the Pro's gear, because his margins were pretty thin and he had a great business model of not spending all of his earnings on gear. I was uncle Bob at my own wedding, .

Moving along, after our wedding, I began to shoot some weddings for friends at a very low cost (few hundred dollars) and got some experience. They knew what they were getting themselves into when they hired me. I had a very solid understanding of basic photography principles and had spent a ton of time researching and looking at wedding day images. To boot, I spent several hundred dollars on books by Bambi Cantrell and various other well established photographers. I also spent a ton on advertising, software, etc, etc, etc. I did pretty well for myself and after about four or five years began to get fairly good and had enough clients to consider going full time. I was at least as good as some of the very well known 'togs on the West Coast who had made big names for themselves, as far as style and product are concerned. My wife even began to shoot some weddings with me.

However, there were two things holding me back from going full time: I was making a very good salary at my daytime gig AND most disconcerting was..., the influx of newbies. Any Jane or John with a camera could hang a shingle and compete with me. Sort of like I did to the the previously established pros out there, when I started. Except, I was charging good money to do weddings. I was getting anywhere from $3K - $6K gross for weddings. So, due to the fact that I was now working 100+ hour weeks at both of my jobs, I had to make a decision, as I couldn't continue to pull that sort of workload. I decided to take the sure thing. the short of it; I sold ALL of my gear. I didn't enjoy photography any more because it was literally wearing me out. I became depressed, my health went to hell, etc, etc. Mostly this happened because I didn't know how to efficiently run a business. I would have eventually, and actually did after a hiatus, figure out how to run a tighter ship. But by the time I figured it out, I was done!

Now, some two to three years later, I'm considering shooting a few weddings a year. The difference between now and then, you ask? Well, I swore I would never shoot weddings again. What follows is the most important part of my sharing this knowledge: I will now shoot weddings because I want to earn a FEW extra dollars, not because I love photography. That bears repeating: I will now shoot weddings because I want to earn a FEW extra dollars. I am a full timer's worst nightmare, and here's why; when I first started some years ago, I was passionate about photography and did it for the love of being around people that were at one of the happiest times of their lives. I really enjoyed photographing weddings. As a result, I was able to earn some good side money, but that was ancillary to my real intentions. Fast forward to now. I'm not going to do it for the love of weddings, or for the love of photography. No, those will be ancillary. I am going to shoot weddings because I want to earn some side cash. I figure I can charge $800-$1,200 for six hours of shooting, burn a disc and be done with it. I'll have a total of ten hours max in each wedding. I figure my costs will be somewhere between $400-$600 per wedding for the first year or two max, then I'll start to net nearly $800 - $1,000 per wedding as I slowly raise my prices to $1,200 to $1,500 per wedding. I'll have low overhead as to time spent per wedding, and it will be something that will net me $100+ per hour. I will market myself as a shoot and burn type. There are a LOT of brides out there that don't care about the entire pampered experience that so many photographers offer, and aren't willing to pay $3,000 to $6,000 for a few pictures. The Gary Fong days are over, for the most part. In these tough economic times, people are being MUCH more frugal and now realize that they don't NEED the fluff.

Today's full timers that have been doing this long enough to be 'good enough', as far as brides are concerned, know that they are swimming against the tide by charging $3K for a few images and upwards of $6K with an album and a couple of extra portrait sessions. They know it, and here's how I know they know it... There's a lot more chatter these days in forums than ever before about how the tide of newbies is getting stronger and stronger. They are starting to feel the serious pressure that newbies are putting on them, and they're nervous. They are starting to offer classes/seminars to the newbies, ala Gary Fong, Marcus Bell, et al. Pretty soon, the majority of brides will know that they can get a photographer, a disc of images and a high quality album for $2K to $3K, or just a disc for $1K - $1.5K. Any full timer that doesn't think so yet is in serious denial or just doesn't get it. There are lots of unemployed people out there that have cameras. Yeah, so they aren't Marcus Bell or [insert your hero photographer's name here], but one thing I learned over the years is that many, if not most, brides aren't willing to pony up a large chunk of their budget for top notch photography, when they can hire someone else that will provide them 70-90% of what some big production will give them, for a fraction of what the big productions commands. GOD knows with all of the easy to use software, actions, correction tools, etc out there now, becoming a wedding photographer is about as difficult as learning to drive a car. Yeah, most Americans can't drive for crap either, but they get where they're going unscathed most of the time. Many brides will take good enough at 1/2 to 1/4 of the price and run with it. The photographers that think and try to sell the idea that "the photography is the most important thing because everything else from your important day will be consumed/gone, but you'll need my excellent skills to preserve your memories" are in for quite a surprise. Yes, brides want their day preserved, but they know they can get that at 80% quality for 1/3 of the cost. They want memories, not necessarily art (well, most of them).

As to this photographer and the disc of images I got from our wedding 'tog; my wife wanted an album. We postponed it because life happens. I could have easily designed and had a very high quality beautiful album assembled for a few hundred dollars, which we can easily afford. Life happened, and we didn't get around to it. Occasionally, we'll run a slideshow of our wedding day images and we have one mid sized canvas print in our bedroom. That's it. Imagine, if we as photographers didn't get more product than that, how brides who these days share images via Tablet devices and online social networking are going to care less and less about traditional prints and albums. It is for this reason that I suspect my new business model will work. Thing is, I have a real income to feed my family, help me to purchase chlorine for my pool, and have many of the nice things that life offers. The extra income from shooting and burning will just offer a way for me to travel, attend some weddings and earn a decent extra cash flow for upgraded vacations. Heck, my wife may be able to take an early retirement from her stressful day job, and do ten to twelve shoot and burn weddings a year and have it made fairly easy.

Having a Utopian view of wedding photography as being a full time career is fallacious at best. Times are a 'changin. Swimming against the tide doesn't change the fact that the tide is heading in the opposite direction of which you wish it to go. Augment your income in others ways. That is my advice for the newbies. Save yourself a load of heartache and money, and do what works, not what you hope will work against conventional wisdom.

Trying to teach the newcomers that they are actually worth a lot more is like trying to teach lemmings to not embark on dangerous migrations. Ain't gonna happen. Capitalism, free markets and the easy entry to this field will ensure that there's plenty of competition for wedding photographers. Good for brides, not so much for wedding photographers that wish to make their living doing only weddings. There are lots of people that would be happy making $30K to $40K salary / year. Those are the people that are your competition. With technology these days, and with technology getting more efficient and easier to use to make acceptable images, it is only a matter of time that we'll get to the point that $1,500 wedding photographers will be the norm.

Oh, and I'll probably be putting on some photography classes/seminars and make a few bucks there too. I however will not be doing full production weddings as were done in past days. That jig is up, as far as I'm concerned. Pareto's 80/20 principle reigns supreme in this profession, as does it in most aspects/businesses in life.

In summary and closing, there are a lot of guys/gals like me. They do this for extra income. Now here comes your next wave; the folks that are unemployed, underemployed or just plain happy making a pittance of a salary. My advice; don't swim against the tide. Jump in the boat where it's nice and dry and see where this journey leads you. But, most of all, enjoy the trip and if you are so lucky, make your own boat and see if people will pay you to take them for a ride. After all, giving people what they want at a fair price (determined by market factors) is much healthier than drowning in denial.



Aug 02, 2012 at 02:09 PM
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