p.4 #1 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
carstenw wrote:
I don't think that is the case though. When the Nikon F came out, it pretty much took over that role, certainly for war photography and journalism in general. For more casual street and portrait photography, maybe not, although I wouldn't be surprised if it also dominated there.
For actual photographers? Yes. For the dirty masses wanting to be like their heroes? I suspect not. For many, Leica was the quintessential PJ camera for many years. The fact that Nikon de facto was _used_ more, is another story
p.4 #3 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
ulrikft2 wrote:
For actual photographers? Yes. For the dirty masses wanting to be like their heroes? I suspect not. For many, Leica was the quintessential PJ camera for many years. The fact that Nikon de facto was _used_ more, is another story
Most world famous photojournalists use a Leica for their more personal work, while doing the more serious work with DSLR. Peter Turnley, Steve McCurry, James Nachtwey, to name a few.
p.4 #4 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
edwardkaraa wrote:
Most world famous photojournalists use a Leica for their more personal work, while doing the more serious work with DSLR. Peter Turnley, Steve McCurry, James Nachtwey, to name a few.
Indeed, but I'll try to clarify once more:
Leica has managed to get a public image, where they are the PJ camera. I'm not saying that most PJs actually use it, I'm saying that in the public sphere, they are considered by many to be it. When I talk to completely non-photographers among my friends, Leica is the brand that comes up for war photograph/PJ in general.
p.4 #5 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
I've more or less given up. While I do have a bunch of great M glass and a 5N, there won't be a FF camera that allows me to see through the lens AND do the lenses justice towards the corners. Not in many years at least.
Actually, sensor size isn't that important to me. It's more about the native lenses. I've though of selling off all the M lenses and get an OM-D with a few primes. But the viewfinder still suck a bit too much. Perhaps it doesn't matter if I use AF lenses. I'm thinking 20/1.7 for walkaround and 12/2 and 25/1.4 for the rest. And perhaps my ZM 50/2 for tele.
The market for M lenses is tiny here in Sweden. I'm selling a CV 35/1.2 and ZM 50/1.5 in as new condition for half the retail price, and not one single person is interested. So even going MFT will take me a while.
p.4 #6 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
ulrikft2 wrote:
Indeed, but I'll try to clarify once more:
Leica has managed to get a public image, where they are the PJ camera. I'm not saying that most PJs actually use it, I'm saying that in the public sphere, they are considered by many to be it. When I talk to completely non-photographers among my friends, Leica is the brand that comes up for war photograph/PJ in general.
Fully agreed about the public image. But I would add that even in pro PJ circles, owning a Leica is a sign of accomplishment, even if it is not usually used on demanding jobs. I know a few guys from my short PJ days working for a local newspaper who are now proud Leica owners. It seems like it's the first thing they buy as soon as they can afford it
p.4 #7 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
Makten wrote:
I've more or less given up. While I do have a bunch of great M glass and a 5N, there won't be a FF camera that allows me to see through the lens AND do the lenses justice towards the corners. Not in many years at least.
Actually, sensor size isn't that important to me. It's more about the native lenses. I've though of selling off all the M lenses and get an OM-D with a few primes. But the viewfinder still suck a bit too much. Perhaps it doesn't matter if I use AF lenses. I'm thinking 20/1.7 for walkaround and 12/2 and 25/1.4 for the rest. And perhaps my ZM 50/2 for tele.
The market for M lenses is tiny here in Sweden. I'm selling a CV 35/1.2 and ZM 50/1.5 in as new condition for half the retail price, and not one single person is interested. So even going MFT will take me a while. ...Show more →
If you are interested in selling to norwegian people too, foto.no has a quite active market.
p.4 #8 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
Makten wrote:
The market for M lenses is tiny here in Sweden. I'm selling a CV 35/1.2 and ZM 50/1.5 in as new condition for half the retail price, and not one single person is interested. So even going MFT will take me a while.
I would recommend you try talking to Henrik (kosmoskatten). He always manages to sell his M gear fast
p.4 #9 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
I think the main reason why no major player will bring out a fullframe mirrorless is the size of zoom lens. The size and weight of a fullframe zoom lens is just ridiculous and diminishes any saving in the body size. A DSLR seems a lot more reasonable to handle such large lenses.
Leica's success notwithstanding, I don't think any big camera company is confident to bring out an all prime system. This is not the 80s any more and even professionals rely on at least one zoom lens.
Without major advancement in technologies, such as sensors that can coupe with oblique rays or lenses which are dramatically reduced in size, I don't see any one going fullframe mirrorless just yet.
p.4 #10 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
I enjoy shooting GXR-M + m43. m43 when I need AF. GXR for M-lenses while waiting for a FF body. I can see that I will be keeping two systems for a while. The 45/1.8 performs better than ZM 50/2 on m43 though, so don't count it out yet.
Makten wrote:
I've more or less given up. While I do have a bunch of great M glass and a 5N, there won't be a FF camera that allows me to see through the lens AND do the lenses justice towards the corners. Not in many years at least.
Actually, sensor size isn't that important to me. It's more about the native lenses. I've though of selling off all the M lenses and get an OM-D with a few primes. But the viewfinder still suck a bit too much. Perhaps it doesn't matter if I use AF lenses. I'm thinking 20/1.7 for walkaround and 12/2 and 25/1.4 for the rest. And perhaps my ZM 50/2 for tele.
The market for M lenses is tiny here in Sweden. I'm selling a CV 35/1.2 and ZM 50/1.5 in as new condition for half the retail price, and not one single person is interested. So even going MFT will take me a while. ...Show more →
p.4 #11 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
Here is what I am hoping Nikon does:
Take the Nikon FM3 boday -- DO NOTHING TO IT. Just replace the View finder with a EV view finder and stick a FF 35mm sensor in it & an SD cardslot and remove the film crank (ok leave it there just for kicks!). Nothing else. No menus, no LCD screen, nothing.
Release it for $999
Done. I will be lining up on day one!
briantho wrote:
35mm is still a valid size for a mirrorless sensor, as all current FF lenses are made to cover that exact area. Nikon could very well counter Canon with a mirrorless FF camera, compatible with its current FX lens lineup. The Nikon 1 concept is dead now imho. Nikon needs a mirrorless that can use its line of lenses as the Canon M does.
p.4 #12 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
Nanh wrote:
I think the main reason why no major player will bring out a fullframe mirrorless is the size of zoom lens. The size and weight of a fullframe zoom lens is just ridiculous and diminishes any saving in the body size. A DSLR seems a lot more reasonable to handle such large lenses.
That said, consider that a decent chunk of the Tamron's size is in the optics necessary to compensate for the register of the SLR, which precludes simpler designs at the wide end. Note that 4/3rds lenses of similar range and speed are similar in size to the Tamron, not the Micro-4/3rds Panasonic despite having to cover only the 4/3rds format like teh Panasonic. This is due to having to compensate for the ~38mm register of 4/3rds mount vs the ~20mm register and zero mirror clearance of m43. Regardless of sensor format you gain significant advantages in design smaller lenses by reducing the register and the rear element-sensor distance when designing lenses with shorter focal lengths.
p.4 #13 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
vparikh wrote:
Here is what I am hoping Nikon does:
Take the Nikon FM3 boday -- DO NOTHING TO IT. Just replace the View finder with a EV view finder and stick a FF 35mm sensor in it & an SD cardslot and remove the film crank (ok leave it there just for kicks!). Nothing else. No menus, no LCD screen, nothing.
Well, then you will have a FF EVF camera with full mirror-enforced register distance, i.e. F lenses again (I guess you mean the FM3a, btw. There is no FM3).
p.4 #14 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
Makten wrote:
...
The market for M lenses is tiny here in Sweden. I'm selling a CV 35/1.2 and ZM 50/1.5 in as new condition for half the retail price, and not one single person is interested. So even going MFT will take me a while.
I've seen the ad :-). Half a year ago I would have bought the CV in a second as I thought I was converting to the NEX. Since then I've fallen back and given up as the smaller sensors - how ever good they are - dont give me what I like so much about FF systems. For me it's a lot about fast WA's, but also about fast tele (85 -100 w F/1.4-2). And, not the least, the ability to focus quickly.
I wont sell the lenses I got for the NEX as I still have hope for the opposite of the thread topic, eventually there WILL BE an affordable mirrorless FF with adequate way of manual focusing. Although the latter could take a generation or two extra as it surerly wont be high up in the manufacturers prio list, rather at the bottom.
p.4 #15 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
Makten wrote:
I've more or less given up. While I do have a bunch of great M glass and a 5N, there won't be a FF camera that allows me to see through the lens AND do the lenses justice towards the corners. Not in many years at least.
I'm pretty sure, that Leica will bring a camera with exactly theses features in the next month to the market. My guess would be before end of 2013 (and maybe even this year).
But of course the price will be significantly above all other (non FF) options.
p.4 #16 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
Taylor Sherman wrote:
I just had a horrible thought this morning: what if someone came out with a (otherwise great) FF mirrorless that had a larger registration distance then Leica M. God, that would be horrible.
If Sony were to release a FF mirrorless, I think this is exactly what they would do. They would have little incentive to make a body for users of Leica lenses when they could instead sell their own, and a longer registration distance helps to deal with the corner/edge problems that for now appear to be intrinsic to digital sensors (esp. CMOS) with compact primes with a high angle of incidence.
p.4 #17 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
Nanh wrote:
I don't see any one going fullframe mirrorless just yet.
I totally agree.
The fantasies for FF by many on this forum can't overcome the fact that most consumers won't buy it.
On this forum, there seems to be many who think that their personal preferences for the ideal FF milc translates to the general public - the suggestion to not have an LCD for example would never happen.
I would love a cheaper, smaller version of a Leica M9, but that camera isn't going to be a bigger seller.
You'd have to convince the camera companies that they'd make more money with full frame and that's just not going to happen.
p.4 #18 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
Bobu wrote:
I'm pretty sure, that Leica will bring a camera with exactly theses features in the next month to the market. My guess would be before end of 2013 (and maybe even this year).
But of course the price will be significantly above all other (non FF) options.
