p.2 #1 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
I prefer a small DSLR from Nikon with a mirror. Just like my old FM. There is nothing wrong with a mirror in my opinion and it does not prevent manufacturing a small camera.
p.2 #2 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
edwardkaraa wrote:
The nice thing about Leica is that they're a good investment. They may be (very) expensive but you can get most of your money back, and in some cases, even make a profit
Even the M8 dinosaure is still fetching prices in the 2500$.
Boy, I don't know. I've seen the M8 going for under $2K, and I saw an M9 on a board the other day listed at around $4200. The lenses, on the other hand, have incredible resale value.
p.2 #3 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
douglasf13 wrote:
Since I'm not a wide shooter, I'd basically just like to see a more contemporary sensor in the M10, and I'd be fine with it. That being the case, I think I'd be fine with a used M9, and, if they come down under $3K, I'll likely bite.
I certainly would be very happy to see the M9 prices go down to 3K. But it seems Leica will not discontinue it and will be offering the M9, M9P and the M10 simultaneously. At least that's what the rumors say. If that's true, I am not sure what effect it would have on the used prices.
p.2 #4 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
douglasf13 wrote:
Boy, I don't know. I've seen the M8 going for under $2K, and I saw an M9 on a board the other day listed at around $4200. The lenses, on the other hand, have incredible resale value.
Sure, but these are IMO just some panic reactions to the imminent M10 announcement, anticipating a huge price drop. But once they realize it won't be available until 2nd quarter next year and in small quantities as usual, they might regret their decision. it would actually be a good idea if you can buy an early production M10 and sell it for double the price on the flea bay
PS: if the M9 prices truly drop to the 3K range, I would certainly forget about the whole M10 infatuation, and get myself a couple M9s instead.
p.2 #5 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
douglasf13 wrote:
Boy, I don't know. I've seen the M8 going for under $2K, and I saw an M9 on a board the other day listed at around $4200. The lenses, on the other hand, have incredible resale value.
+1. with the going rate for M9's in the used market, the loss in its value is close to the total price of other FF cameras.
Sony had released the A850 for sub-2K. I am sure they can release an FF mirror-less for even less than that if they want to. And at that price they can sell a good number of them. But you never know with Sony. Plus they already have trouble coming up with lenses with one mirror-less mount, So they may not want to support yet another mount. Maybe Ricoh can come up with an M-mount FF module for GXR At least they don't have to worry about lenses
p.2 #6 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
douglasf13 wrote:
Boy, I don't know. I've seen the M8 going for under $2K, and I saw an M9 on a board the other day listed at around $4200. The lenses, on the other hand, have incredible resale value.
yeah, the lenses hold their value but the cameras depreciate at about the same rate as all the other digital cameras. as they should since that electronics won't hold up the way something that is constructed of only metal and glass will.
even for $3000 an m9 won't do it for me, i want something more versatile.
p.2 #7 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
curious80 wrote:
+1. with the going rate for M9's in the used market, the loss in its value is close to the total price of other FF cameras.
Sony had released the A850 for sub-2K. I am sure they can release an FF mirror-less for even less than that if they want to. And at that price they can sell a good number of them. But you never know with Sony. Plus they already have trouble coming up with lenses with one mirror-less mount, So they may not want to support yet another mount. Maybe Ricoh can come up with an M-mount FF module for GXR At least they don't have to worry about lenses...Show more →
I think you're right. A Ricoh M mount with a 35mm sensor would be the most logical possibility.
p.2 #8 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
I just had a horrible thought this morning: what if someone came out with a (otherwise great) FF mirrorless that had a larger registration distance then Leica M. God, that would be horrible.
p.2 #9 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
It would be Samsung
Taylor Sherman wrote:
I just had a horrible thought this morning: what if someone came out with a (otherwise great) FF mirrorless that had a larger registration distance then Leica M. God, that would be horrible.
p.2 #10 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
I hope Ricoh would do it too. I have the GXR-M and I think the quality of the files is amazing. The focus peaking is great, but everything else sucks. If they decide to make it, I think it should in a completely new body not just a module.
p.2 #12 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
The bodies do depreciate, but after the intial hit the sense I get is that the scarcity of options for digital rangefinders help the older bodies hold their value better. Good copies of the R-D1 are still selling for ~$1200 and I expect that my M8 will still be ~$1500-1600 in another year (probably $1800-1900 now). I expect that the M9 will come down to the low $4k range soon, but probably hold there for a while.
p.2 #13 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
+1, and taking into account the CLA, RF calibration fee (how much are those usually?), and focus shift issue... I don't know...
sebboh wrote:
yeah, the lenses hold their value but the cameras depreciate at about the same rate as all the other digital cameras. as they should since that electronics won't hold up the way something that is constructed of only metal and glass will.
even for $3000 an m9 won't do it for me, i want something more versatile.
p.2 #14 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
edwardkaraa wrote:
The nice thing about Leica is that they're a good investment. They may be (very) expensive but you can get most of your money back, and in some cases, even make a profit
Even the M8 dinosaure is still fetching prices in the 2500$.
Yes, Edward! If you have to choose between a new Mercedes Benz and a Leica, the Leica will hold a much higher percentage of its value. Now, an Italian villa, I'm not so sure!
p.2 #16 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
Gunzorro wrote:
Yes, Edward! If you have to choose between a new Mercedes Benz and a Leica, the Leica will hold a much higher percentage of its value. Now, an Italian villa, I'm not so sure!
Hahaha! I don't think this comparison is fair. Maybe Leica vs Rolls Royce?
p.2 #17 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
The only reason to want a FF mirrorless is so that 135mm lenses can be used on their full field; this is hardly an incentive for a camera maker when designing a new system.
Canon's move is not surprising, because coming out with a FF body would not work well with those who oppose mirrorless systems with large lenses (comments aplenty on the Sony NEX body VS lens sizes).
In discussing Nikon VS Canon decisions though, it's interesting to note that from the MF to AF move, Nikon decided to keep old lens compatibility, whereas Canon dropped the FD mount fin favor of the entirely brand new EF system.
This time around, they went the opposite way..
In the end, I think Canon did the right move by testing the waters with this body, then move to a more complete system in subsequent generations.
p.2 #18 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
Perhaps Canon did the right thing...and they'll probably sell a lot of EF-M bodies, but I suspect there's a lot of smiling faces at Leica these days knowing that the M9/10 will probably be the only real option for using m-mount lenses on FF format for the near future.
p.2 #19 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
As crop sensor and crop glass continues to improve @ WA/UWA ... the need for consumer FF is waning rapidly. BTW ... how's that S2 (drool) lineup working out.
I'd like to see a FF Foveon, but that's not gonna happen, and while a mirrorless FF could open up the world @ legacy glass & rangefinder glass ... it's market appeal probably just isn't there. We'd likely love it ... but we are the minority of the minority's minority.
p.2 #20 · There goes the hope for a mirrorless FF...
briantho wrote:
I'm curious, doesn't the launch of the Canon M mean that Nikon will have to rethink their mirrorless offerings? Won't Nikon be left far behind all competition as it currently stands?
Weren't they far behind and way out in left field at launch time? I thought they were at least. I guess some people bought that camera but I can't imagine anyone doing so - on purpose I mean - at release, now, nor in the future. <shrug>
