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Archive 2012 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.
  
 
Cableaddict
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


I used to have a Bogen 3275 (Manfrotto 410) that I had bought new.

Loved it, but it was stolen along with my tripod.

Money's tight now, so I just bought a used one off Ebay. I have immediately noticed that the 3 axis are just a little loose. That is, I can wiggle the head's 3 sections back & forth against each other, maybe 1mm or so.

I don't remember my old one doing this, but then I'm not sure I ever checked.

Does anyone have a fairly new one, and can tell me if mine is worn out? I know I can buy new internal parts, but I'd hate to spend the money & then find that it's still loose, due to a bad design.


-thanks.



Jul 13, 2012 at 08:14 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


I'm on my second 410 that was bought new about three years ago. I dropped the first one and one of the axes got a bit jammed. Anyway, the new one has no 'slop' when being used, but I can't say that I've actually tried a "wiggle test" on it. I'll try it out when I get home, which might not be for a few days.


Jul 13, 2012 at 11:56 AM
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


Thanks, Jim. That will really help.


Jul 13, 2012 at 12:12 PM
Roland W
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


My Manfrotto 410 gear head has no slop at all when I try to wiggle it, and the way they work, there should be no wiggle unless you force it pretty hard. No ball head of any kind should have slop or wiggle when locked. My head happens to be at least 8 years old, and also came from eBay.

Do the outer spring loaded "locking" parts of the knobs move freely to release the axis, and then spring back smoothly and firmly to lock the gear action? Their spring action should feel pretty firm when you turn them to release the action, and they should move back and lock as you release the pressure on the outer locks. If you can force them further toward the locking direction, which is counter clockwise, and that makes the slop go away, then you know your problem relates to them.

One thing that could happen to a used 410 might be that the lubrication is dried up from heat or age, and the spring loaded locking knobs will not spring back fully to cause the locking action. If that is the case, you might get it to work better by repeatadly moving the locking parts back and forth. I have no experience with opening up a 410 head to lubricate it. It looks like the rubber cover of the main knobs needs to come off first, but I am not willing to try anything to my head. And if you explore in there to take things apart, be careful of the spring action, which may fly off and cause injury, and also may require special tooling to be put back together.

You may have discovered why it was sold on eBay. I hope you have recourse, but many sales are listed as "no returns allowed".



Jul 13, 2012 at 02:41 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


Hey Allan. I just popped into the city to drop my dog at the groomer. My 410 has no slop during the wiggle test.

Roland might be right about the lubricant, but as he also says, you should be careful if you want to explore its innards.



Jul 13, 2012 at 03:15 PM
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


Thanks, guys, this is great info. I'm in your debt.

Roland, indeed two knobs can be forced further toward the locking direction, after releasing them. As you say, probably old, hardened grease. Also, the springs seem very soft, like they are worn out.

- But it gets worse: I took apart the gearing sections, and there are deep grooves ground into each inner piece, around the teeth! Someone beat the snot out of this thing.

I'll have to call Manfrotto on Monday to see if it's worth replacing the parts. Sadly, you can't just buy the springs, they only come as part of a pre-assembled knob, so this will likely be way too expensive. Ughh.

Well, live & learn.



Jul 13, 2012 at 09:19 PM
Gord SW Ont
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


Have you looked at removing the labels and adjusting screws as per link below?

http://www.ground-glass.net/diy/tripod-head-maintenance



Jul 14, 2012 at 03:34 AM
 

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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


Gord SW Ont wrote:
Have you looked at removing the labels and adjusting screws as per link below?

http://www.ground-glass.net/diy/tripod-head-maintenance



- Thanks, Gord. I appreciate your taking the time. However, I'm almost certain that the author of that article is wrong.

It seems to make no difference how tight you make the "screws" (they are actually bolts.) The head's mechanical tightness is completely dependent on the mesh between the inner toothed circle thing, and the adjustment lead screw. The little screw that tightens the cover (visible from the outside once the labels are off) does nothing except hold the cover on. It doesn't push the gears against each other, nor can it cause the inner gearing to expand. (that would be a clever design.)

I hope I'm wrong, somehow, but I don't see how that could be.

What probably happened for the author is that there was only a small amount of wear, and the new grease "filled in the gaps." I re-greased mine with a thicker-than-stock teflon grease, and some of the slop went away, but not all of it.

That inner geared circle thing is only made out of aluminum. I guess you can do the damage mine has by using a too-heavy camera. (They make the 405 for a reason)

I WISH this guy was right, but you can't adjust for worn parts. For $200 new, you can't really complain, but they should make those parts out of hardened steel. Who cares about weight in a geared head?
-------------

Still, a cleaning and re-grease is definitely a good idea: My knobs were very hard to turn. After the re-grease, they turn like butter.



Jul 14, 2012 at 04:07 AM
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


UPDATE:

I had a good talk today with a Manfrotto tech. I just wanted to let 410 owners know what I found out.

1: I was correct that the cover-bolts are not used to somehow tighten the gears. They just hold the covers on.

2: The slight looseness mine has is probably cause by both the grooves in the teeth casting, PLUS problems in the lead-screw assembly. - The latter is considered too difficult to disassemble, even for a technically-minded owner.

3: The return springs should indeed feel tight, not loose at the beginning of the release-knob's travel.

4: All parts are still available, should you need them, but of course it's gonna cost you. Manfrotto has schematics on their website.



Jul 18, 2012 at 08:45 PM
jcolwell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


I donated my first 410 (with one slightly stiff axis) to NSCAD, and then I bought a new 410. The cost of the new 410 was more than offset by the saving in time that would have to be invested to fix the original one. YMMV.


Jul 18, 2012 at 10:59 PM
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


Yep. I just ordered a new one today.


live and learn ........



Jul 19, 2012 at 10:11 AM
SoundHound
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


The 410 has really increased the utility of my Zeiss spotting scope. Looking to sell/give away my ballheads. Seemingly, nothing else works as well for the size/weight/cost. The QD plate is large and clumsy but a complete Arca Swiss adapter is most of the price of a used 410.

That's why I have a second 410 for close ups with medium large lenses (and an inexpensive Manfrotto QD plate for another body). I keep my Wimberly Mk II for the super teles. My used 410 seems to be tight. But the 410 is not the superlite head that liveson the end of your tripod to be thrown into the trunk.



Jul 20, 2012 at 01:07 PM
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Bogen 3275 / Manfrotto 410 geared head - question.


I recieved my new 410 today.

The difference is night & day. Completely solid, with no rocking at all. The return springs are also MUCH tighter.

One thing I don't like is that the adjustment screws are a bit stiff. When I re-greased the worn-out one last week, it became much nicer to adjust. I'm tempted to re-grease my new one with the same expensive Japanese lense grease, (The Tim Taylor syndrome) though I'm also afraid it might mess something up so I probably won't.
--------------------

THE IMPORTANT POINT HERE:

These heads are incredible for the money, but they CAN wear out. Even the one I had previously, which I had since new, had a tiny bit of play in the clamp. (I thus had removed the clamp & kludged an arca clamp to the raw base.)

I won't be using this head with a medium format camera or a tele lens, but still I wonder if the 405 is more robust, in terms of wear.



Jul 24, 2012 at 11:38 PM





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