What about a Mamiya 645? Lighter and cheaper than many other MF set ups and it offers a waist-level finer, plus excellent and relatively inexpensive lens choices.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
...and the Rolleicords have 75's which are even a little wider still, enough that I noticed going between the two.
Yeah, there's quite a noticeable difference between the two on MF. Enough that an 80mm was one of the draws of my choice of a Mamiya 645 system over the Bronica or Pentax systems and their 75's (I prefer my normals in the 50-60mm range on 35mm, and similar on other systems).
goosemang wrote:
yeah, i can price out a bronica SQ system on KEH for like $600 with a 50mm lens
maybe i'll go down that road. aside from the body, lens and back, are there any other things i need to purchase to get rolling with this?
You will need a light meter - if you have an iPhone, there are a couple free/cheap apps that will get the job done. or you can a) use Sunny f/16 or b) get a metered prism.
i'd rent one before committing the $ to the system. i rented a 501cm + 80/2.8 and while it was fun, it was kinda a PITA. film costs, development costs and printing or scanning costs were kinda high per 12 or 24 exposures. i thought the square format would be cool, but it felt kinda constricting. it's heavy and requires a relatively high shutter speed to get sharp images. and while there is demand, it's not the easiest thing to sell if you wanted to divest it.
but thinking about it, i would like to rent one again..
As far as metering goes, I would get a simple handheld meter. I feel that this is part of the fun. I like the Gossen meters, and it ought to be possible to find a nice used Profisix or Lunasix for not much money. The metered prisms are very heavy and bulky, and also not that cheap.
carstenw wrote:
As far as metering goes, I would get a simple handheld meter. I feel that this is part of the fun. I like the Gossen meters, and it ought to be possible to find a nice used Profisix or Lunasix for not much money. The metered prisms are very heavy and bulky, and also not that cheap.
Carsten -- This all depends on the camera. A Pentax 67II (or 6x7 with TTL prism) is not too heavy or bulky, compared to these other suggestions.
The relatively inexpensive Yashica-Mat has a built-in needle that is accurate enough for negative films.
I recommend against hand-held meters as they are nothing more that an encumberence and hassle unless absolutely needed. After many years pursuing 4x5, I am very happy to be free of meters and tripods whenever it is feasible to do so. I've worked so much with spot meters and Gossen Luna Pro-F that there isn't any fun to be had fiddling with them. I'm not interested in slowing down my photography pace.
We haven't even mentioned the Fuji rangefinder cameras with fixed lens -- they are amazing and sharp, and within the price range listed -- with metering! 6x4.5 can be had as a zoom lens, going up to 6x9 format. Handy, lightweight and small enough to haul anywhere.
Actually this really gets my attention. I'm looking at a 4x5 land camera kit (bellows and track everything) in superb shape for <$700. My questions turn on availability of film and where to get development as I'm not going to build another darkroom
After you get a negative do film guys scan or pay for prints from somewhere? I keep wondering why I'm still interested in B&W film. Greater dynamic range, maybe?
The metering in my P67II died and it's a lot less fun to use when I have to fiddle with the handheld meter (Gossen Digiflash) instead. It's a lot less accurate as well, but at least very small.
Regarding the Fuji rangefinders, I had the GM670 and the Bessa III 667, and I can't recommend the older one. It's huuuuuge, even compared to a Hassy, and the viewfinder is only so-so (same standard as the later 670 models if I'm not wrong). The Bessa on the other hand, is a masterpiece. The rangefinder beats any Leica and even the Zeiss Ikon, which should say something. It folds to something that looks like a small purse and the lens is super sharp. But, the price is high and it doesn't feel very sturdy.
I'd take a look at the Bronica RF645 if I wanted a rangefinder.
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Edit: Sending B&W film off for development is madness. Anyone can do it at home and it doesn't require a darkroom. 4x5" is even worse!
Color film is a different story though, even if I'd recommend doing that at home as well, when you have some experience with B&W.
Personally, I scan my negs since I'm not interested in prints. But even if I was, I'd buy a medium priced flatbed scanner. The lab will either charge too much for a great scan or give you some crap in JPG that is nearly useless for anything but web display, if even that.
Thanks for the development advice. I built 3 labs back in the film day and just don't want to do it again. I also don't have the space, but you're right developing the negative is not all that big of a deal. Hadn't considered scanner cost, but even a medium quality one would - as you suggest - have plenty of resolution.
No way José! I took my first swim in early may. It was ~13°C and so f*ckin worth it.
Using a hand-held meter is fun.
Sometimes, but I'd want a spotmeter in that case. The Digiflash has a much too wide "angle of metering" for reflected light in my opinion. Just a tad of bright sky close to what you aim at, and the exposure ends up way too low.
The spot metering of the P67II on the other hand, was extremely good. I nailed the exposure for sort of any scene perfectly, which I can't with the Digiflash.
Depending on your photographic interests...a MF rangefinder might be the best choice. Some have metering systems that match 35mm bodies, interchangeable lenses, and are less bulky. Mamiya and Fuji come to mind.
If you just want to test the water...a cheap Holga cost peanuts and they are developing a cult following.....or as mentioned above, the YashicaMat-24G has a good reputation and decent lens.
There are some cheap Eastern European makes as well, Such as the Pentacon 6...many have early Car Zeiss lenses.
One thing to remember is the price of quality MF gear is not declining...the opposite in fact....so if you don't like it you could sell for a profit if you buy wisely.
DaveOls wrote:
I'd rather spend less than a $ 100 to find out if I like it than $ 1000.
that is still not a reason to try out a toy. that is not how you would test your blossoming passion for sportscars or guitars or ancient asian pottery, right?
besides there are 'real' cameras to be had at the price that holgas tend to go for these days.
ebay is full of old but well kept folding cameras or TLRs.
granted we are not necessarily talking about the finest achievements of the camera industry, but those will at least grant one a much better insight into medium format photography than a holga ever could.
besides, starting with a proper system is not necessarily that much more expensive.
when i started out, my first medium format kit consisted of a mamiya m645 1000s with a metered prism finder and the standard 80 2.8 lens.
i got it all off ebay, everything in fine and working condition and hardly payed more than 150$.
Makten wrote:
Edit: Sending B&W film off for development is madness. Anyone can do it at home and it doesn't require a darkroom. 4x5" is even worse!
Color film is a different story though, even if I'd recommend doing that at home as well, when you have some experience with B&W.
Makten, what's your kit/process look like for developing B&W 4x5? I've been thinking about getting into this, but it looks like most were recommending a Combi Plan as a 4x5 daylight tank, and that's now been discontinued. Are there other good options, or would I need to mess with trays?
Using a hand-held meter is fun.