I think a lot of the "o you're great" comments are from people that don't know how to think for themselves, people who are afraid to stand behind their own work, kiss ass to people that are rock star photographers in hopes they will get a response from them and then think they are friends. You know the type, the 1 star mentality people that follow athletes and movie stars around and then jump in behind them in random pictures to say they are friends with them and know them.
yea there is a lot of kiss ass, c sucking and golden thrown going on here. It is rather annoying to consistently read "o you are so good, great photo blah blah blah" or the post about "should I scrap this photo? Is it good enough?" Seriously, if this is what you do for a living then you should know if your photos suck or are good enough. When they such, why are you even posting them here to try and get a response?
O yea, then there are the assholes like me that just speak their mind. I think we need more of that. Tell someone their stuff sucks, but tell them why. Thats what is wrong with not only this forum but our society as a whole. Everyone is afraid to tell someone they are not #1. So then we have a country filled with princesses and princes thinking they are the next best thing.
I have more thoughts, but just to clarify....I am saying that we should continue to praise one another, however, hyperbole and superlatives really need to be tempered.
i kind of agree with you. for example, you are a self-proclaimed hard ass. since you are tough with your critiques, when you say 'wow...this is good' it has value. but if everyone says that every post is good, the comment has no value and ultimately, share threads here will have no value.
i kind of agree with you. for example, you are a self-proclaimed hard ass. since you are tough with your critiques, when you say 'wow...this is good' it has value. but if everyone says that every post is good, the comment has no value and ultimately, share threads here will have no value.
Yeah... you think that way ... and that other asshole there... paparazzinick (jk man you're good peeps) thinks that way... and I think that way... but methinks we're in a minority.
Heck, when my wife makes dinner it's usually either a 9 (most of the time), an 8 or 7 ... and sometime a 6. To my total bewilderment she loves it when I tell her the food is fantastic (which like I said... the vast majority of the time it is) ... but the times that I've (honestly) said "you know this is good, but I think it was better last time when you used the sausages from X store" ... she clearly does NOT take that comment the same way I would. I expect variability in my shit and in fact like you say... if you constantly tell me I'm awesome I start thinking you're just fcuking with me ... but clearly there are other peeps who, for whatever reason are not wired the same way.
And I don't think that chasm can be bridged. My feeling about myself, honestly... at least in things that i think I'm pretty good at is this "I'm pretty freakin awesome, I know that ... don't waste your time telling me how awesome I am... tell me how I can get MORE awesome"
Like some, I try not to give critiques unless asked. I sometimes still do it, then I feel bad because I don't know if that's the main reason/part of the reason someone is posting. Sometimes all they really *want* is a pat on the back. However, when I do crit, I like to give it in a sandwich of positive/negative/positive so that it's not just about what I think doesn't work.
well.. I was just talking about this with someone on this forum. I think giving someone a CC is always a slippery slope. I used the word cheesy one time and sounded like an ass.
But sometimes when the set is just awesome, does it matter? Do you still have to point out the flaw?
pinktutu wrote:
Like some, I try not to give critiques unless asked. I sometimes still do it, then I feel bad because I don't know if that's the main reason/part of the reason someone is posting. Sometimes all they really *want* is a pat on the back. However, when I do crit, I like to give it in a sandwich of positive/negative/positive so that it's not just about what I think doesn't work.
You know we think that will work, but who knows...
I shot an event a few months back. Hired a photographer friend to 2nd shoot for me. The friend did everything I expected AND MORE, made me look great with the clients, went out their way to help, was essentially an absolute A.
I had two issues ... one was a technical problem that happened, which resulted in a batch of the images not coming out as RAW, and the other was that a fairly significant batch of the images from the reception were a bit tilted... not horrifyingly so but also not just "I had my camera accidentally tilted" ... it was clearly a choice.
So again, overall I was absolutely THRILLED and was totally looking forward (actually I'm totally looking forward) to hiring that person again.
So a few days after looking through the images I sent the photographer an email where I basically said something along the lines of:
"Hey I just wanted to let you know that it was an absolute pleasure to have you there working with me...
You did everything I would expect of a 2nd and on top of that you did these specific things: (followed by a list of maybe 8-9 things I noticed) that I thought were going above and beyond and I wanted to communicate to you how much I appreciate watching you do them, and have guests come up to me and compliment me on what you were doing.
With regards to the JPG images don't worry, they were all salvageable, If you haven't already, I would suggest you think about what happened to make sure you understand where the failure was, so you can avoid it happening to you in the future... I've learned a LOT from deconstructing problems I've had during an event.
The one observation I would like to make is that I personally don't necessarily go for the intentionally titled look across a lot of images and I couldn't help but notice that it was pretty prevalent in some of the speeches and other reception photos. You framed the images wide enough that I had absolutely no problem using the imgaes, I cropped them in a little and untilted them.. so no worries, but I thought you might like to know about this stylistic preference for next time I ask you to shoot with me.
Thanks again for a fantastic job awesomely done, I look forward to working with you again.
Ciao!
Alessandro"
I dunno but that sounds pretty reasonable to me.
I've totally gotten the cold shoulder from that photographer since sending the email.
Personally I would have been THRILLED to get a similar email... but obviously we're not all the same.
lisy78 wrote:
You know we think that will work, but who knows...
I shot an event a few months back. Hired a photographer friend to 2nd shoot for me. The friend did everything I expected AND MORE, made me look great with the clients, went out their way to help, was essentially an absolute A.
I had two issues ... one was a technical problem that happened, which resulted in a batch of the images not coming out as RAW, and the other was that a fairly significant batch of the images from the reception were a bit tilted... not horrifyingly so but also not just "I had my camera accidentally tilted" ... it was clearly a choice.
So again, overall I was absolutely THRILLED and was totally looking forward (actually I'm totally looking forward) to hiring that person again.
So a few days after looking through the images I sent the photographer an email where I basically said something along the lines of:
"Hey I just wanted to let you know that it was an absolute pleasure to have you there working with me...
You did everything I would expect of a 2nd and on top of that you did these specific things: (followed by a list of maybe 8-9 things I noticed) that I thought were going above and beyond and I wanted to communicate to you how much I appreciate watching you do them, and have guests come up to me and compliment me on what you were doing.
With regards to the JPG images don't worry, they were all salvageable, If you haven't already, I would suggest you think about what happened to make sure you understand where the failure was, so you can avoid it happening to you in the future... I've learned a LOT from deconstructing problems I've had during an event.
The one observation I would like to make is that I personally don't necessarily go for the intentionally titled look across a lot of images and I couldn't help but notice that it was pretty prevalent in some of the speeches and other reception photos. You framed the images wide enough that I had absolutely no problem using the imgaes, I cropped them in a little and untilted them.. so no worries, but I thought you might like to know about this stylistic preference for next time I ask you to shoot with me.
Thanks again for a fantastic job awesomely done, I look forward to working with you again.
Ciao!
Alessandro"
I dunno but that sounds pretty reasonable to me.
I've totally gotten the cold shoulder from that photographer since sending the email.
Personally I would have been THRILLED to get a similar email... but obviously we're not all the same....Show more →
That's unfortunate. It could also be that he was embarrassed about it, but you wrote a nice email imo.
personally, I think the shark tank attitude is what helps all of us grow as shooters. it helps push anybody willing to take a chance and risk something.
I posted for the first time some images for critique on another forum..all I got was "I like #7." ONE comment!! And no explanation for why he liked #7/why he did not like the rest of the set.
There are 5-8 posts a day in this forum looking for critique. People who were obviously...lacking...in skill got critiques. People with amazing skill and creativity got critiqued. I got pretty much nothing.
Therefore I'm left to think my photos must have been so boring no one wants to say anything...should I post here and hope I dont put anyone to sleep? ;-)
Honest negative critique is never welcome on any forum. No matter how delicately it's given. The site owners don't want it. They want everything to be "nice".
For those who have been on other forums and been kicked off because they gave their honest opinions, they've learned.
Whether it's a forum or Facebook, negativity is never welcome. People no longer have thick skin like in the old days. They all want to be patted on the head and told how great they are.
lisy78 wrote:
You know we think that will work, but who knows...
I shot an event a few months back. Hired a photographer friend to 2nd shoot for me. The friend did everything I expected AND MORE, made me look great with the clients, went out their way to help, was essentially an absolute A.
I had two issues ... one was a technical problem that happened, which resulted in a batch of the images not coming out as RAW, and the other was that a fairly significant batch of the images from the reception were a bit tilted... not horrifyingly so but also not just "I had my camera accidentally tilted" ... it was clearly a choice.
So again, overall I was absolutely THRILLED and was totally looking forward (actually I'm totally looking forward) to hiring that person again.
So a few days after looking through the images I sent the photographer an email where I basically said something along the lines of:
"Hey I just wanted to let you know that it was an absolute pleasure to have you there working with me...
You did everything I would expect of a 2nd and on top of that you did these specific things: (followed by a list of maybe 8-9 things I noticed) that I thought were going above and beyond and I wanted to communicate to you how much I appreciate watching you do them, and have guests come up to me and compliment me on what you were doing.
With regards to the JPG images don't worry, they were all salvageable, If you haven't already, I would suggest you think about what happened to make sure you understand where the failure was, so you can avoid it happening to you in the future... I've learned a LOT from deconstructing problems I've had during an event.
The one observation I would like to make is that I personally don't necessarily go for the intentionally titled look across a lot of images and I couldn't help but notice that it was pretty prevalent in some of the speeches and other reception photos. You framed the images wide enough that I had absolutely no problem using the imgaes, I cropped them in a little and untilted them.. so no worries, but I thought you might like to know about this stylistic preference for next time I ask you to shoot with me.
Thanks again for a fantastic job awesomely done, I look forward to working with you again.
Ciao!
Alessandro"
I dunno but that sounds pretty reasonable to me.
I've totally gotten the cold shoulder from that photographer since sending the email.
Personally I would have been THRILLED to get a similar email... but obviously we're not all the same....Show more →
I will admit that I can take critique harshly because I'm a perfectionist (which is why I finally submitted photos for critique, to get past this fear of not doing everything right), but if I received your e-mail I would have been thrilled. That was perfectly put and sure I might have been embarrassed, but I would have thanked you for letting me know and for sincerely helping me improve. I would want to work with you again!
I think its a very valid point that its difficult to find the balance between a constructive critique and negative posts. Well done critiques are also time consuming!
But I think if we start backing off the sweeping hyperbole and over the top superlatives would be a start in the right direction. I mean, how many 'amazing' sets are there really? I can think of five, maybe seven, "AMAZING" image posts over the YEARS. Yet the word 'AMAZING' appears....well...you get my point.
Yeah, my latest engagement shots I posted, someone said it is the best engagement post he has seen on this forum. And he has like 1000+ posts. While I am flattered, I know how wrong he was ahhaah.
Maybe there is too many "amazing"s and "best set ever"s, but it's also nice to know that you are on the right track, which I feel this forum does a lot. I still feel that if you are having problems with composition, white balance, etc. etc., people on here will tell you.
Every piece of praise I get, I take with a grain of salt because I know I can do better. But to agree with you, I do wish people would tell me more about something they didnt like about my sets as well as what they liked.
canerino wrote:
I think its a very valid point that its difficult to find the balance between a constructive critique and negative posts. Well done critiques are also time consuming!
But I think if we start backing off the sweeping hyperbole and over the top superlatives would be a start in the right direction. I mean, how many 'amazing' sets are there really? I can think of five, maybe seven, "AMAZING" image posts over the YEARS. Yet the word 'AMAZING' appears....well...you get my point.
In the past year alone...
Search results of 'amazing' in Message · 1316 entries
Search results of 'sucks' in Message · 401 entries
TomHarmon wrote:
Maybe there is too many "amazing"s and "best set ever"s, but it's also nice to know that you are on the right track, which I feel this forum does a lot. I still feel that if you are having problems with composition, white balance, etc. etc., people on here will tell you.
Every piece of praise I get, I take with a grain of salt because I know I can do better. But to agree with you, I do wish people would tell me more about something they didnt like about my sets as well as what they liked.
just fyi .... what shooter critique and clients critique are different.
I know you know ... but needs to be stated as to know the difference and to where apply to your growth and process.
My thought is when the poster posts 20+ images they're just looking to share the entire set. I'll usually make a comment like "good set" or something like that if I like the images. I don't have the time to critique all the images. I may critique one or two and that'll be it. I'm gonna try to post some images from the past few weddings I've shot today/tomorrow. I know one will be a full wedding that I won't be looking for a critique on (though I'd welcome it) and another I'll only post 4-5 images specifically for critique.
And yes, I like brutal critiques. If you think they're good, tell me why. If you think they suck, tell me why. If you don't like my sucky images, help me figure out how to make them better so I won't suck as much
