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Archive 2012 · D7000 vs D800
  
 
Guari
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p.3 #1 · D7000 vs D800


sjms wrote:
you miss the forest for the trees. its the subject.
http://digitaljournalist.org/issue9911/images/C_07.jpg



Of course it is the subject, I never said the contrary

And given the option of shooting the same subject with a D70 or a D800, I'll take the 800 every single time,

Same logic as if I were shooting film exclusively, LF beats MF beats 35mm. There is no secret nor mystique to it.



Jul 04, 2012 at 11:32 AM
sjms
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p.3 #2 · D7000 vs D800


yeah, ok. in the end its what you are shooting and not what you have to shoot with. you may drool to use the latest and greatest but in the end you'll get your shot with what you have.


Jul 04, 2012 at 11:38 AM
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p.3 #3 · D7000 vs D800


sjms wrote:
regretfully, i don't think you understand photography. but you do "understand bigger is better".


Excuse me? When did I say that?



Jul 04, 2012 at 10:59 PM
Two23
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p.3 #4 · D7000 vs D800


rennocneb wrote:
well the sacrifice in glass im considering making is to wait on the telephoto for awhile. i think many would argue that the tamron 28-75 is actaully a pretty darn good lens. Ive just always wandering if full frame was worth it you see the breathtaking landscapes etc shot with full frame cameras and it makes you want to give them a try.



I highly doubt you'll see any significant difference in image quality between a D800 and D7000, especially if you are going cheap on the more important parts of your photo system. No one in your family or circle of friends is going to look at photos from those two cameras and be able to tell the difference between them. Exception is maybe if you regularly make 20x30 sized prints (using a first class lens & tripod), but that's not what you're doing. Buy a SYSTEM (lenses, tripod, flash, computer & software, camera,) not just a camera. You will get better results from a system than just an overly hyped and expensive camera. I bought the D5100 for video for $500. I easily had enough money to buy a great Rode Stereo Videomic which made a huge difference. Now that I have a solid system, I can just plug moderately priced cameras into it as Nikon releases them. Your shots will definitely NOT be more "breath taking" if you use a D800 rather than a D3200 even. "Breath taking" comes from understanding Light and how to use it. It certainly does not come from a camera. It's the typical beginner's mistake to think that a better camera (at the expense of lenses, tripod, etc.) will give better photos. The camera will make no difference at all. Focus on seeing, understanding, studying, and using Light, then you will begin to improve. It's all about Use of Light. Buy a $500 D5100 and a ticket to Iceland. You will get FAR more breath taking shots doing that than anything you'll get where you live with a D800.



Kent in SD



Jul 05, 2012 at 12:27 AM
Two23
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p.3 #5 · D7000 vs D800


Guari wrote:
Same logic as if I were shooting film exclusively, LF beats MF beats 35mm. There is no secret nor mystique to it.



Well, that's not really true. I still shoot a Chamonix 045n 4x5, and also regularly shoot historic cameras and lenses such as a Rolleiflex 6x6, a Voigtlander Bessa 6x9, a Leica IIIc, and a collection of LF lenses going back to 1847. You say "LF beats MF, MF beats 35mm." I love to take photos in subways using my vintage cameras. It a specialized form of "street photography. I can promise you I'll get better results using my Leica IIIc than I ever would with my Chamonix 4x5. Why? I can load ISO 3200 film into the Leica, not available in 4x5 sheets. I also would quickly be prevented from using a tripod in a subway, making shooting 4x5 difficult. Finally, the little Leica goes unnoticed but people stare at the Chamonix field camera and seem to feel threatened if it's pointed at them. SO, the Leica beats the 4x5 for subway photography.

Here's what I'm getting at. There is no "best" camera. It depends on your application, what you are doing with it and what you want. Cameras and camera gear all have different qualities and properties, and the trick is to match those to the task at hand. A D4 is a great camera and along with a Nikon 14-24mm f2.8 it would technically do a great job taking photos in dicey sections of the NY subway. However, it would stick out like a flashing red light and that kind of attention would certainly not be a good thing. A $500 Nikon D5100 with a 18-55mm VR kit lens would be a better choice because is less noticeable, the fold out screen allows you to use it at waist level, and if it gets stolen you won't cry as much. Image qualtiy will be very similar anyway, and you won't be getting photos of hostile people staring at you like you would if you pointed the D4 combo at people.

---->select the camera gear that makes the most sense for what you are doing. There is no "best" camera, all have compromises. Sometimes a weakness is a great strength.

You also mentioned you'd rather have a D800 than a D70. What if you're in a kayak photo'ing the Yellowstone River as you go through rapids? I'd rather have a $200 camera than a $3,000 one for that. Anyway, the choice between D800 and D70 is purely silly. There are more real choices out there. On an important trip, I'd take TWO D7000 bodies over just ONE D800, every time. No brainer.


Kent in SD



Jul 05, 2012 at 12:44 AM
sjms
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p.3 #6 · D7000 vs D800


cipsaz wrote:
Excuse me? When did I say that?


big number cameras like the D800. 36 MP. your admission that you'd want that one the most. thats when you said it. other then that there is no particular real world advantage where in the correct users hands will show up. each has some advantage but the user makes the difference. a D800 does not make one a better shooter by virtue of the advanced abilities of the camera.



Jul 05, 2012 at 01:16 AM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.3 #7 · D7000 vs D800


Your overall point that the photographer is the most important part of the image-creation process is sound. You take it too far, however, and repeatedly claim (as you just did in this last post, that "...other than [36MP] there is no particular real world advantage where in the correct users hands will show up."

That, good sir, is poppycock. A competent user with good photographic skills and who knows his gear will certainly get images that are technically better (whether color or monochrome) with better gear. No, the D800 does not make one a better shooter... but a good shooter will get better images with his D800 than he did with his D300 if he knows how to take advantage of the camera's increased capabilities. Same goes for a good racecar driver who's given a better car, and so on.



Jul 05, 2012 at 02:14 AM
Two23
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p.3 #8 · D7000 vs D800


I'll partially agree, but only to a point. A truly good photographer is going to make truly great images no matter WHAT camera he has. Just take a look at photos made since about 1840, down through time. Sometimes a camera can make a difference, such as if you photo flying birds a good AF can help. But then again, I read an article in a 1937 photo journal about a guy taking photos of birds in flight with a large format camera. He had some nice shots, too.

The problem I have with most of what you posted is that it helps perpetuate the myth that buying an expensive camera will make you a better photographer. I'll go back to my main point that if you can't take a terrific photo with a D3200, you won't be able to do it with a D800 either. If you think your photos are crap because you use a D3200, your photos will still be crap if you buy a D800. It will just be crap with slightly more resolution. The qualities that make a photo a real "screamer" rarely have anything to do with camera gear, and everything to do with knowing composition and mastering the use of Light. Too many photographers are looking for an easy short cut and think "If I had the same camera Jim Brandenburg uses, my shots will look like his." And that is........poppycock. Brandenburg is great because he has mastered Light.


Kent in SD



Jul 05, 2012 at 03:01 AM
sjms
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p.3 #9 · D7000 vs D800


Rodolfo Paiz wrote:
Your overall point that the photographer is the most important part of the image-creation process is sound. You take it too far, however, and repeatedly claim (as you just did in this last post, that "...other than [36MP] there is no particular real world advantage where in the correct users hands will show up."

That, good sir, is poppycock. A competent user with good photographic skills and who knows his gear will certainly get images that are technically better (whether color or monochrome) with better gear. No, the D800 does not make one a better shooter... but a good shooter
...Show more

pretty much standard rationalization that falls apart on a regular basis.



Jul 05, 2012 at 03:19 AM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.3 #10 · D7000 vs D800


Two23 wrote:
I'll partially agree, but only to a point. A truly good photographer is going to make truly great images no matter WHAT camera he has. [...] Too many photographers are looking for an easy short cut and think "If I had the same camera Jim Brandenburg uses, my shots will look like his." And that is........poppycock. Brandenburg is great because he has mastered Light.


Actually, we seem to agree entirely. What I'm saying is that, when one look at one specific shooter and his skill set, it is quite often reasonable and sound to think that he can get better images from a better camera. Not better than Brandenburg, but better than what he got yesterday on his old camera. He won't suddenly become a better shooter and there are no shortcuts, but his images may very well be better, or his keeper rate higher, with better gear.

I have some beautiful landscape shots from my old D70s... and the same shot would have been "better" (more dynamic range and more pixels for large printing) if I'd had the D3x or D800 in my hands at that point. It would even have been better if the wide lens had been on the D200, but I'd put the long lens on the D200 and the wide on the D70s and had no way to change them in time.

Yes, truly great photography will always be about Light. But you, or I, or the OP here, will surely encounter times when we miss an image because the AF didn't lock, or there was too little light, or whatever, that a better camera or a better lens might well have captured successfully. The gear is never the largest factor, but it is a factor. It matters too. Otherwise, we'd all be carrying point-and-shoots.



Jul 05, 2012 at 03:44 AM
 

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sjms
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p.3 #11 · D7000 vs D800


i think you need to review the past hundred or so years of photography.


Jul 05, 2012 at 03:53 AM
talexander
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p.3 #12 · D7000 vs D800


I think it depends what's stoping you. If you want to take BIF photos but only have a 70-300 then sure a 500 will make you a better photographer in the sense it enables you to do somethig the other lens can't.

In terms of being limited with a d7000 I feel it's by far my skill then my lack of a d800.

Tim



Jul 05, 2012 at 05:29 AM
ytwong
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p.3 #13 · D7000 vs D800


If video is important... I would consider a.... Sony Alpha SLT.. it does full time phase detection AF for video shooting..

For low light photos, They sensor based stabilization that works with fast 1.8, 1.4, 2.0 prime. (think cheap 50 f1.8, or inexpensive 50 f1.4 , 35 f2 or Sigma 30 1.4 etc)

High ISO Image quality might be a bit lower than a D7000 but for all practical purpose it is very good.

(I don't have a Sony Alpha but NEX-7)

PS. Tamron 28-75 2.8 is quite good (on my D700 and NEX-7 via adapter) but probably not the best to pair with D800 since I can see some softness at the borders on D700 images, and it is definitely not good for tracking moving subjects.



Jul 05, 2012 at 05:51 AM
DavidWEGS
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p.3 #14 · D7000 vs D800


D7k, but with something like the 17-55 nikon, and a 50/1.8 IMO.


Jul 05, 2012 at 01:09 PM
molson
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p.3 #15 · D7000 vs D800


rennocneb wrote:
so is full frame worth the roughly $2000 price premium?


If you honestly have to ask this question, then for you, no it's probably not.



Jul 05, 2012 at 01:16 PM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.3 #16 · D7000 vs D800


sjms wrote:
i think you need to review the past hundred or so years of photography.


I have. I always learn from the past, but I don't allow myself to be limited by it. 100 years ago, I'd've tried to improve my skill set as much as possible and worked within the limitations of the hardware I had available to me at the time. In 2012, I try to improve my skill set as much as possible and I work within the limitations of the hardware I have available to me now.



Jul 05, 2012 at 01:54 PM
sjms
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p.3 #17 · D7000 vs D800


ok then you got double the amount of pixels. go forth and make astounding images with them.

just remember:
you need to be at the right place at the right time in the right "frame" of mind to get your shot. and thats 99% of the moment. and that all you.



Jul 05, 2012 at 02:33 PM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.3 #18 · D7000 vs D800


sjms wrote:
just remember:
you need to be at the right place at the right time in the right "frame" of mind to get your shot. and thats 99% of the moment. and that all you.


Agreed. I'm struggling to get the "feel" of the moment into my first large (500+ MP) pano right now, so I know exactly what you mean. The D800 did its part, because three bracketed frames at +/- 2EV created a boatload of DR and an even bigger boatload of pixels. But still, all the work (pre and post) that goes into any landscape is still there and still needs to get done. And while the camera's job was done in 10 minutes, mine is now well over 10 hours and still going...

"Go forth and make astounding images." I like that... an ideal I can certainly subscribe to.



Jul 05, 2012 at 02:53 PM
NathanHamler
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p.3 #19 · D7000 vs D800


haha ok time to reel this back in....to the OP, someone mentioned that if you wanna shoot video, buy a VIDEO CAMERA, not a dSLR that shoots video....i had a D90 for a long time, then we had a child, and my wife decided that we'd need a video camera...so we bought a little JVC, flash memory based, 1080p video camera, for like roughly $200....pretty good deal, pretty nice camera....

well the problem is, with a dedicated video camera like that, the sensor is SOOOO small, the wide end of the zoom range was like a 45mm focal length on FX....def not wide at all....so i got a .5x wide angle converter to stick on the front, and it made it slightly wider, but still barely 35mm on FX...

Add to that the the low light performance was TERRIBLE, and that now i have to take 2 cameras wherever we go, one for stills, one for video....it was totally not worth it....

and on top of THAT, capturing the footage was a PAAAIIIIINNNNN!! You HAD to dump the footage into iMovie just to view it on the computer....no way around it.....no "hey let's shoot a short clip, drag it over from the SD card, and just leave it on the desktop"...nope, doesn't work that way...it was a total hassle....

My solution was to go m4/3's in that department....i picked up a panasonic GF2....the wide end is 28mm FX equiv, it shoots in 720p, .mov quicktime files that you can just drag and drop straight from the card (or they show up in aperture which is awesome...no more iMovie capture needed)....and on top of that, the stills are awesome....video mode is fully automatic, so even if you're shooting in full manual mode, you hand the camera to your wife and she just hits the separate video record button, and it's full auto...nothing to set, af is pretty respectable (although i only ever shoot at the wide end, so DOF is to your advantage), it's really all you need.....

something to think about....



Jul 05, 2012 at 03:15 PM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.3 #20 · D7000 vs D800


Right, back to the OP.

I'm strongly thinking of buying a Nikon 1 to serve as the carry-around, shoot-the-family, video camera. Image quality is very good, 10MP is enough for those purposes, the AF engine is very good... overall, a very interesting package. And there are lots of times when schlepping around a full DSLR kit is overkill and a PITA. Disney, anyone?



Jul 05, 2012 at 03:23 PM
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