maxwell1295 wrote:
I hear you on that Chuck. While I love hanging with my couples, I'm usually not too enthusiastic about the shooting part. What helps me is that I rarely pose engagements (or anything else for that matter). I try to put them in situations where they can interact naturally and make sure they focus more on each other than on the camera.
This exactly...
I enjoy engagement sessions and family sessions because they challenge the shiz out of me as a shooter. They are hard do doubt... especially if you have a couple that does not interact well.
To Jackie and me the shoot is more about them just getting comfortable with us and building an awesome relationship.
Last night we did a "family" shoot with a guy I grew up with that is very involved in the TV industry... the result... only OK shots of the family (his wife did not really want to be in the shots at all she just wanted shots of their 18 month old) but it resulted in some really awesome potential networking with a lot of great people.
To me the pictures are just OK. The spot they picked sucked, but they had fun and the kid had fun, and I am sure they will love the picks.
I kind of feel the same way about engagement sessions. Occasionally we will get "those couples" who just boom in front of the camera but most times we just have fun getting to know them and have a chance to just relax in a "less stressful" situation.
Why not have them "do something" during the shoot...some sort of activity. Your family stuff is like that and it is off the hook.
i'm with EVO88...it's really awkward sometimes, because the people are just plain awkward. i had a couple recently where the girl claimed to be an x-model, the guy was a total geek, and they had previously had 'engagements' done by the guys dad... so you can imagine this setup, right? she was forced, he was awkward, it was cheesey, cliche, and all of that. i did not enjoy 5 seconds of it at all. they loved them though. did i mention it was also 100 degrees? yah - they didn't listen about when to have them done, so...
but still... couples should do just the BAREST of prep as in "talking to each other" about what they expect from themselves for a shoot. some people just can't pull off sexy....or flirty...really. just imo.
When the session first starts, most of my couples are a little uneasy because they don't know what to expect and don't know what to do. So when I put them in position for them to interact, the first thing they do is laugh a nervous laugh and whisper to each other....probably saying "What the hell are we supposed to be doing?" I've gotten some of my best shots during that moment when they're uneasy and figuring things out. They don't realize it, but that first bit of interaction is very natural and has yielded some of my best shots.
I hadn't really thought of it this way, Alan, so thanks for pointing this out. I'll be more deliberate about taking advantage of this opportunity next time.
E-sessions and family sessions are tough because it's you and them. In a wedding, there are a ton of activities buzzing. You can just hang back and shoot as the moment arises.
Nervous energy from you will be transferred and sometimes magnified with the couple. Perhaps if you like PJ, have them do an activity.
I agree with a few posters. Non-cheesy nor contrived directed poses is an art form. Not easy. That's why I really enjoy viewing Hassas and Hoffer's stuff. They make it look easy at every shoot. Dammit!
love e-sessions .... love getting into the prep of the session to the actual shoot.
I adjust to each couple. Each couple is different .... different personalities plus different end desires.
some couples there is a ton of interaction and others just point them in a direction.
Personally, i am pushing towards a little longer session because i find it rewarding on many levels.
I love em and I feel it's necessary for breaking the ice for wedding day. Let's face it, unless you're a model or in the wedding business people have a tainted view towards photographers. Everyone remember getting class pictures in high school right? Well more the masses that me be the only contact with someone they deemed a professional photographer. Om my engagement sessions I show them that it's ok to be cheesy, dorky, to be themselves, to have fun with the camera. I don't want to do this on their wedding day because the MUA runs over their time by and hour and now it's compacted my day. I makes the wedding day more personable for me. Granted some couples don't know how to hold each other or even kiss. It helps everyone feel comfortable.
Don't get me wrong. I feel like I suck at them because I'm pushed out of my comfort zone. I'd much rather be worried about how in the hell I'm going to bounce a flash in a dark church with 1000' ceilings.
This is just my 2 cents and there are no right or wrongs here just different ways for people to approach their business.
Man, I love doing E-sessions. I feel that's where most of my strength lies with photography, and my clients absolutely love them. I've had couples who got a mock e-session or couples session after their wedding from me, simply because they weren't happy with their initial photographer's work. In terms of posing vs natural, I don't think either is right or wrong. We are in the creative field, so there's no one set guideline. I try not to pose couples... I wish I didn't have to pose them at all. Infact, I feel that I'm pretty terrible at posing in general. Let's face it though, how many couples know what to do in front of a camera or can feel perfectly comfortable interacting with each other in front of a stranger? Not a whole lot. I try to put myself in their shoes. How would you do in their place? Remember when you were younger and getting your high school senior photos, did you know how to get that perfect pose? Of course not, the photographer told you what to do! Was it cheesy? Absolutely! Did your mom still buy it or cherish those tiny proofs? You betcha. Point is, everyone wants awesome photos and natural connections with E-sessions, but as a photographer, you still have to offer some form of direction. Most of my couples are shy and somewhat reserved anyway, so if I just place them in the right area and light and tell them to be cute, they end up really nervous, uncomfortable, goofy, or just talking to each other. So usually, it's more about the direction vs the pose. I feel moments are more naturally occurring at the actual wedding. However, even through posing and direction, there are almost always really special moments that will happen throughout the session too, so you just have to prepare for the unexpected sometimes. My main goal is to just have a good time with the couple and make sure they enjoy the experience, and it usually results in pleasing images that they are happy with.
Everyone's different. I shot an e-session on Tuesday where the guy was stiff as a board and didn't want his lovely fiance up against him because it was too hot. I was like, wow, I don't know if this marriage is going to work. And she was very attractive.
Today's couple, totally different ballgame. We were doing one shot and he was in a really stiff position. I stopped shooting and said simply "I need you to move into another position." He moved, his girl moved with him, and they went into this really nice pose. It was like that the whole session.
I prefer e-sessions over weddings any day because the mood is relaxed, there is no timeline and there is nothing rigid and preset about it. You can do anything at any time on an engagement session, so long as it fits the personalities.
Sergio Mottola wrote:
me too, i see them as pretty pointless.
i think this is my problem. i actually had this response written yesterday but didnt finish the thought. i dont see the point of them for the couple. no disrespect intended for anyone who had them done. but i couldnt imagine getting one. and i think that really weighs into my general dislike for shooting them.
hardlyboring wrote:
This exactly...
I enjoy engagement sessions and family sessions because they challenge the shiz out of me as a shooter. They are hard do doubt... especially if you have a couple that does not interact well.
To Jackie and me the shoot is more about them just getting comfortable with us and building an awesome relationship.
^ This
For me it's about relationship building, giving confidence to the birde that she will be photographed beautifully, getting to know the couple, their idiosyncrasies etc.
Also the extra photos give a strong impression of "adding value"
as far as being pointless goes... I have really liked some of the custom guest books i have seen built from the e session. It would seem to make sense economically to add an e session/custom guest book as part of a higher end wedding package.
canerino wrote:
i think this is my problem. i actually had this response written yesterday but didnt finish the thought. i dont see the point of them for the couple. no disrespect intended for anyone who had them done. but i couldnt imagine getting one. and i think that really weighs into my general dislike for shooting them.
Engagement shoots make awesome sign in books. I think the sign in guest books that is just a bunch of lines and people's signature's is pretty pointless. What do I need a list of names for? They are also awesome for save the dates, and well, just for the couple to have some nice professional pictures of the two of them together, because some people are terrible at remembering to bring their camera to anything to document themselves. I mean, I could say the same thing about school photos. What's the point other then to document that time in their lives and have proof of exactly what your kid looked like at age 10. For me, the point of the engagement shoot though is to get the couple used to be photographed, and to get comfortable with me. Once I've spent some time with a couple, I know I can usually do whatever I want on wedding day, I can be ignored when I want to be, and present and in the conversation when nothing is going on instead of it just being awkward and quiet. They can also learn their own weird habits after looking at the photos, and I can be more aware of any problems to look out for, for example if they always pull their chin when they look at each other, etc. I don't know, I LOVE engagement shoots, so that's the best I got.
I also see them as pointless, or at least satisfying a purpose that I wouldn't be interested in satisfying. That's no problem, but for many the purpose of the session seems to be building confidence for the client, which is a necessary thing but in my opinion (and that's all it is) there are many better ways to do it and many that can be done without the "free sample" tactic being employed.
So engagements are merely a test run so a client can gain confidence in us as a photographer ? Isn't that what our studio, website, albums and photo samples are for ?
In the "old " days, engagement shoots consisted of merely taking a quick studio portrait for the newspaper.
I had a session the other day where the groom was totally not into the shoot. In fact, he was a jerk towards his fiancee. Didn't want to look at her, have fun with her or do anything resembling that he liked her. It was difficult at best to get any good photos. Complete waste of time.
