There are reports that the D800 AF isn't as snappy as the 5D3 AF. But I wonder: how does the D800 compare to the 5D2? So, for those of you that have upgraded their 5D2's to D800's, how would you say they compare on AF (locking) speed and accuracy. Center AF point performance only.
Due to the 5D2's AF slowness I sometimes miss interesting split-second facial expressions in the studio. I didn't had these issues when using the faster 1Ds3. Will the D800 keep up with me in the studio?
I have both sat here on my desk. AF speed is as much a function of the lens as it is the body, especially those lenses with built in focus motors. But AF speed is still not the whole story.
The D800 "seems" to be less sluggish from pressing the shutter button to actually taking the shot than the 5D2 does in the studio, but we're talking milliseconds. As I recall the shutter lag on the D800 is about a third less than the 5D2 (meaning it fires more quickly) but I'd have to go dig those numbers up in order to be millisecond accurate.
Normally I'd say go rent one and play with it but I realise that renting a D800 at this point is not going to be easy.
In this video the testers come across some lag in the D800's AF during their time in the studio. In their opinion the 5D3 snaps into focus more easily:
That got me thinking how the D800 compares to the 5D2, since I have been using the 5D2 extensively in the studio. It is easier for me to refer to. Renting a D800 isn't possible yet since they are out of stock everywhere.
For arguments sake, lets compare the 5D2 and D800 both with the 70-200 2.8 and 24-70 2.8.
Dave, thanks a lot for doing this. To summarize, the D800 and 5D2 AF acquiring speed is (roughly) on par. But the shutter lag of the D800 is much shorter (more Canon 1-series like). I agree on the 5D2 shutter feeling lethargic from time to time and this is one of the issues why I do miss some shots (combined with rather slow VF black-out times).
I am curious. You did watch that video too. On the D800 they comment that it seems to "double check' if it has acquired focus, therefore they notice some kind of AF lag. Do you know to what I am referring? Have you noticed this too?
Yes, I've seen it, it happens, not all the time, but it happens. OTOH if you put the camera in AFC (continuous AF) and hold the AF button it's snappy. Using the custom functions to set things to Focus Priority means that even in this mode the camera will only fire if it's in focus whereas on the Canon using this mode you can fire at will and every shot could be OOF.
There's no free lunch here. You can have fast and accurate or 'super fast' and take your chances.
I think in the studio environment the 5D3 could be a great camera. I played with one at FocusOnImaging and it was impressively snappy for focus and the shutter didn't seem to have the same sort of lag the 5D2 has. Lots of people are going to be really happy with that camera.
Dave_EP wrote:
Yes, I've seen it, it happens, not all the time, but it happens. OTOH if you put the camera in AFC (continuous AF) and hold the AF button it's snappy. Using the custom functions to set things to Focus Priority means that even in this mode the camera will only fire if it's in focus whereas on the Canon using this mode you can fire at will and every shot could be OOF.
There's no free lunch here. You can have fast and accurate or 'super fast' and take your chances.
I think in the studio environment the 5D3 could be a great camera. I played with one at FocusOnImaging and it was impressively snappy for focus and the shutter didn't seem to have the same sort of lag the 5D2 has. Lots of people are going to be really happy with that camera....Show more →
Thanks again.
So the D800 AF lag is only in One Shot (forgot what Nikon's equivalent is called). Does it get in the way of split-second shooting? Is the D800's AF-C usable on stationary subjects, like portraits in the studio?
The 5D2 will always give the AF confirmation. Even if the shot is OOF in reality. IIRC the 5D3 doesn't work like that anymore. I think it will give the confirmation (red flashing) only when it has acquired focusing. But maybe I am wrong here.
Anyway, most 5D3 users seem to rave about it's AF. Maybe I should try one myself. What bothers me about the 5D3 is the fact Canon didn't cure the shadow banding. I notice the shadow banding when processing low key studio shots.
I don't see the lag / double take all the time, just in certain cases and usually in lower ambient light.
I would normally be using AF-S (single shot) mode for studio unless the subject is doing lots of moving around and I want to catch the moment, in which case I may switch to AF-C (continuous).
IF you are currently loaded up with Canon glass I would recommend leaning towards the 5D3 unless you can find an overwhelming reason to change. Both are going to be great cameras.
Yes the banding issue has caused me problems in the past and is one of the reasons I shoot Nikon instead of Canon for stills, but there are lots of other reasons too, including more reliable AF in lower and mixed light (you could say at the expense of absolute AF speed), Nikon CLS (for speedlights) and the fact that I can generally pull more detail out of both highlights and shadows from the 14 bit raw files than I ever could from the 5D2 (or 1Ds2 I shot before that).
It's going to be a balancing act between recoverable details, overall resolution and catching that moment with the AF. There will be supporters and critics on both sides. There is no one absolute winner and in reality I hope there never will be.
So let's talk a bit more about this. The Nikon vs the canon in one shot seems to always favor the canon just a bit in speed. Nikon seems to focus more on precise accuracy. In continuous focus mode this is where the Nikon shines and in fact I never use one shot on my Nikons as the continous focus is that good. Canon recommends servo for moving subjects. Nikon does not. For studio and portraits continous focus is extremely reliable. The biggest advantage Nikon has had over canon as of late is the shutter response times they have been much lower. So when comparing the 5dmk II to any of the Nikon cameras take in to account the shutter response times. Nikons range from 38-42ms the canon 5d Mk II response time is 73ms and the 5d mk III is down to 55ms. The second part is mirror blackout time. The canon 5 mk II is 145 and the mk III is down to 125. Compared to the Nikon the Nikon is faster the d700 has a 74ms blackout time. The d800 is reported to be better.
I have never owned a 5D2 or 3 but I can state that the D800 with 70-200 VRII is as fast AF wise as a 1DmkIV / 70-200 f2.8 II (which I owned previously) and with the 2X III TC on board it's faster - way faster! The was a slight perceptible lag with the 2X TC onboard the Canon while initially acquiring focus and there is none with the Nikon. This is in both AF-S and AF-C modes. IMHO there is no basis the think the AF system in the 800 is any less capable with Pro level AF-S lenses the any Canon 1 series with L glass. I'd love to have one of the Nikon superteles and try it with the TC-20 III, I'll bet it's awesome.
Shot my 5d2 for a year and loved it. Switched to Nikon a year ago. the d800 is the best camera i have ever shot. Focus speed, IQ, simplicity, the AF is awesome. The 5d2 was great if it didn't move IMHO
The initial AF aquasition speed is on par. The servo focus is also on par (with good lenses). The D800 af can focus (IMO) much better in low light.
Then again my only testing was done at a camera store...
I would call the AF a wash at this point.
rd4tile wrote:
IMHO there is no basis the think the AF system in the 800 is any less capable with Pro level AF-S lenses the any Canon 1 series with L glass.
Of course not. It's the same AF as the D4, and it's best AF Nikon can currently offer to anyone in any camera.
Speed aside, what about accuracy? That's my main concern. My 5D2 misses more than I would like. I shoot multiple shots of everything to compensate. From what I've read this is not an issue with the 5D3 or D800.
As far as renting, I have a D800 and 85 1.4g arriving on Monday from LensRentals, great company!
Speaking of using AF-C on stationary objects. In my mostly family snapshot and outdoors shooting, I have always left my D700 on AF-C and it was great! This allowed me to use a single press of the AF-ON button for stationary people and react to movement by simply keeping the AF-ON pressed.
On the 20D, 7D and 5D2 which I had before the D700, AI-Servo for stationary objects are jittery and I could never move from one-shot to servo fast enough. On of the reasons I love the Nikon approach to focusing.
I do vaguely remember feeling that the D700 focusing was not quite as fast as the 5D2 Center-Point in initial Acquisition but I my 5D2 had the 24-105 and the D700 had the 24-85 plus I was just starting to configure my D700 on so I attributed the difference to the lenses and left it at that. Good to know that the actual shot time is about the same or faster on the D700. Thanks for taking the time Dave_EP.
ohsnaphappy wrote:
Speed aside, what about accuracy? That's my main concern. My 5D2 misses more than I would like. I shoot multiple shots of everything to compensate. From what I've read this is not an issue with the 5D3 or D800.
As far as renting, I have a D800 and 85 1.4g arriving on Monday from LensRentals, great company!
Your correct in your assumptions both Canon and Nikon now appear to have great focusing systems. Just be weary the 85 f1.4 is not the swiftest of focusing lenses so don't expect it to compete with any of the zooms from either manufacture.
Bruce Sawle wrote:
So let's talk a bit more about this. The Nikon vs the canon in one shot seems to always favor the canon just a bit in speed. Nikon seems to focus more on precise accuracy. In continuous focus mode this is where the Nikon shines and in fact I never use one shot on my Nikons as the continous focus is that good. Canon recommends servo for moving subjects. Nikon does not. For studio and portraits continous focus is extremely reliable. The biggest advantage Nikon has had over canon as of late is the shutter response times they have been much lower. So when comparing the 5dmk II to any of the Nikon cameras take in to account the shutter response times. Nikons range from 38-42ms the canon 5d Mk II response time is 73ms and the 5d mk III is down to 55ms. The second part is mirror blackout time. The canon 5 mk II is 145 and the mk III is down to 125. Compared to the Nikon the Nikon is faster the d700 has a 74ms blackout time. The d800 is reported to be better. ...Show more →
When I used the 1Ds3 I had no issues with AI Servo on stationary subjects. The 5D2's AI Servo is not suitable for this. It is good to know the D800 works more like the 1Ds3.
I agree that fast/short shutter lag and mirror/VF black out times are very important too. I didn't realize that the D800 is (slightly) faster than the 5D3 and a whole lot faster than the 5D2. Thanks for pointing that out
