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Archive 2012 · Your Best Image this Week Thread
  
 
carstenw
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p.11 #1 · p.11 #1 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


briantho wrote:
To get back on topic, here is my best shot this week. And yes, it follows the golden equation


Pretty cool shot.

But it not only places the subject around the 1.618:1 spot, but it equally well sits on 3:2, 4:3 and loads of other ratios, because it is so big starting 585 and ending at 857 of 1024. The placement on the golden cut is pretty approximate at best. These rules are just guidelines and there are so many great shots which ignore them that in the end one cannot take them too seriously.

As Martin says, I feel how I want my composition, I don't measure anything.



Jul 17, 2012 at 06:24 PM
carstenw
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p.11 #2 · p.11 #2 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


http://herestothecrazyones.com/


Jul 17, 2012 at 06:26 PM
Makten
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p.11 #3 · p.11 #3 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


RustyBug wrote:
I guess we are kinda saying the same thing...


Indeed we do. Now for the $10000 question: why would you want to do things according to the rules, if you don't have to? Because it satisfies other people and the "common taste"?


carstenw wrote:
Well, try it The first step is probably to say "try not to put the subject smack in the middle". Where to put it? On a third, or golden cut, or whatever, right? So there is the first rule.


I object! Why can't the subject be in the middle? Because you've learned it shouldn't, of course.

Most of these people do not really care enough about photography to experiment with placement, they just want to know some easy way to improve the photos.

Well, why not just make him think for himself by suggesting different placings? "Have you though of that the subject must not be in the middle?" might be a better approach, in my opinion.

And IMO, those are exactly the kinds of people who rules are perfect for. I don't care about rules, although I of course know them. Mostly I just read them, shrug my shoulders and keep doing whatever I am doing. Once a year I try one, and usually give it up again.

Me to. But it's easy to underrate even a beginners own will. I still don't believe in rules for any sort of art. Rules are for the uncertain, and anyone can become certain if they learn to trust their own thoughts.



Jul 17, 2012 at 06:31 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.11 #4 · p.11 #4 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


I think people are under the mistaken impression that just because you learn a rule and use it a few times means that you become brainwashed and have to do it every time.


Jul 17, 2012 at 07:23 PM
carstenw
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p.11 #5 · p.11 #5 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


Well, if you don't use it every time, what is the difference between you and us? Practically nothing, I would say. The main difference is (apparently) that you every once in a while think "I will use a rule". I don't, that's for sure. I move my camera around until I like it, press the shutter, the end.


Jul 17, 2012 at 07:34 PM
carstenw
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p.11 #6 · p.11 #6 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


Makten wrote:
I object! Why can't the subject be in the middle? Because you've learned it shouldn't, of course.


No, not at all. Sometimes things look good in the middle, but often, it just removes any semblance of tension in the photo, leaving it flat. It tends to emphasize the foreground (if there is one) at the cost of the background. Anyway, I would not usually say "don't put things in the middle", but rather show them one of their photos, a similar one of mine (or someone else's who has a better photo) and then ask why the one is better than the other. People tend to come up with ideas when you do that, and if they do, actually I need to say nothing at all, other than "try your ideas".



Jul 17, 2012 at 07:37 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.11 #7 · p.11 #7 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


They're just approaches, it seems some of you have a sense of a false dilemma that using it makes you such a square. It's something that can help you more than hurt you. Just surprising to see something so basic is so controversial.


Jul 17, 2012 at 07:50 PM
Makten
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p.11 #8 · p.11 #8 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


If you don't obey the rules, they are not rules.


Jul 17, 2012 at 08:01 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.11 #9 · p.11 #9 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


Its funny to be so hung up on semantics.


Jul 17, 2012 at 08:01 PM
 

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briantho
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p.11 #10 · p.11 #10 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


carstenw wrote:
Pretty cool shot.

But it not only places the subject around the 1.618:1 spot, but it equally well sits on 3:2, 4:3 and loads of other ratios, because it is so big starting 585 and ending at 857 of 1024. The placement on the golden cut is pretty approximate at best. These rules are just guidelines and there are so many great shots which ignore them that in the end one cannot take them too seriously.

As Martin says, I feel how I want my composition, I don't measure anything.


Yeah, the pic follows all of the rules. And also ignores all rules, depending on your interpretation

I have the "rules" in the back of my head as guidelines when shooting. In post, if I'm cropping, I always use grids or other overlay tools to guide me. So what? Guides are for losers now?

I say let everyone do whatever they like, follow rules, don't follow rules, crop without guides, crop using guides, never crop... who cares? As Martin said, if it looks good it's good.

There is too much text and too few pics in this thread.



Jul 17, 2012 at 08:01 PM
helimat
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p.11 #11 · p.11 #11 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


Must be a heated debate... There's only one photo in the last three pages.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7269/7592507960_dbbbf8a2f7_c.jpg

ZE 21 & 5D2

Cheers,

Mat



Jul 17, 2012 at 08:10 PM
RustyBug
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p.11 #12 · p.11 #12 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


Makten wrote:
Indeed we do. Now for the $10000 question: why would you want to do things according to the rules, if you don't have to?


Because:

A) I haven't yet learned how to control things for myself
B) It requires less thought than figuring things out for myself
C) I desire to appease others (Yes, Mr. Police Officer) who are rule oriented
D) The rule happens to be very effective and in concert with my objectives & goals
E) Following the rule is a more efficient workflow (Mr. School Photographer)
F) Following the rule provides for greater consistency for a given application
G) Any time I want to ... i.e. because it works @ xyz.
H) I want to look homogenized
I) Other

It's not as though rules should be treated as "restrictive" things that should be avoided ... rather as tools for you to use at your discrection.

I was taught a "rule" by graduation ceremony event photographers that said to imagine a soda/beer can sitting on top of the person's head. That was the "rule" they suggested for determining how much space to frame around the "diploma portrait". It provided a degree of consistency amongst the various shooters and generated a certain compositional "look". For those who didn't have a "good eye" ... that rule was quite helpful to them. I found it an interesting and convenient "rule" to remember. Today, I get to choose whether or not I use that rule (or modify it) in my work ... my call @ "use or lose".

Rule of Thirds, Centered, Geometric Mean ... eh, never mind.







Edited on Jul 17, 2012 at 10:21 PM · View previous versions



Jul 17, 2012 at 08:15 PM
carstenw
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p.11 #13 · p.11 #13 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


briantho wrote:
So what? Guides are for losers now?


Well, no. Anyone who wants to use them can, of course. In the last couple of pages I felt as if some were saying that if you do not follow the rules, you cannot produce good work. This is why I am arguing hard



Jul 17, 2012 at 09:52 PM
Bifurcator
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p.11 #14 · p.11 #14 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


briantho wrote:
So what? Guides are for losers now?

carstenw wrote:
Well, no. Anyone who wants to use them can, of course. In the last couple of pages I felt as if some were saying that if you do not follow the rules, you cannot produce good work. This is why I am arguing hard

I read it more from two view points: 1 - Rules will save you and teach you what you need. vs. 2 - Rules are type-casting and best ignored, trust your instinct and develop you own mind's eye.

For me art is synonymous with #2. And #1 is akin to engineering. Typically engineering IMO can produce interesting results but it's not usually the best way to produce art or develop one's artistic senses.

Anyway, that's what I read from the discussion - mostly.


In my case I don't understand Rusty's last post. The description or "way" isn't good or bad... just different to the point where my understanding of that way can't be formed in practice. Looking at an awesome commercial photo of one type or another is all I usually need to be able to understand it and why it's awesome. Anytime I wanna create something like it all I have to do is remember it - and practice a little. Likewise with most types. And likewise with mixing and matching among types. Not that I've done a whole lot of this sort of thing - but it's there and like that for me when/if I wanna do that. Contrarily, using rules to learn is extremely difficult!






Jul 18, 2012 at 06:44 PM
RustyBug
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p.11 #15 · p.11 #15 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


Bifurcator wrote:
Contrarily, using rules to learn is extremely difficult!


Shall we move into "right brain" vs. "left brain" (new thread maybe) ... or just get back to our pics from the week.



Jul 18, 2012 at 11:00 PM
Bifurcator
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p.11 #16 · p.11 #16 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


Either/any is fine. There's no limit AFAIK. I take your point tho!

I guess this thread will have a lot of discussion text in it tho with only one pic allowed per person per week. So I guess we don't need to be too nervous if the topic tangents a little from time to time.




Jul 19, 2012 at 08:46 AM
FlyPenFly
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p.11 #17 · p.11 #17 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


Trying to bring this back.

OM+D + PL25mm F1.4

This was taken in Prague. I believe this is a bicycle rack.







Nov 29, 2012 at 01:10 PM
RickPerry
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p.11 #18 · p.11 #18 · Your Best Image this Week Thread


"Portland Docks" - Abstract







Nov 29, 2012 at 01:18 PM
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