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Archive 2012 · HMI alternative...
  
 
daverowe
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p.1 #1 · HMI alternative...


howdy yall. trying to find a cheaper alternative to big hmi lights for daylight balanced 4x5 film. what are your thoughts on this

http://www.spectrumaudio.com/elation-lighting-opti-zoom.html

perhaps with a diy attachment for a softbox. also...forgive me for my lack of lighting knowledge, but can you gel one of these babies for a daylight compensation? http://www.adorama.com/JTSLW1200WB.html thanks for the help.

thanks so much! david



Mar 27, 2012 at 12:59 AM
daverowe
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p.1 #2 · HMI alternative...


Bump


Mar 27, 2012 at 08:20 PM
PeterBerressem
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p.1 #3 · HMI alternative...


For daylight colour temperature the best option still is flash, in regard to power (shutter speed / aperture). Is there a reason for chosing continuous light, maybe for video?

The Elation is a simple 575W quartz (tungsten) source. The output is way lower than what you get from a 575W HMI source.
When you gel balance (full CTB) a tungsten source to daylight you lose 2 full f/stops what makes the JTL 1200W just a 300W (day)light.




Mar 27, 2012 at 09:05 PM
cwebster
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p.1 #4 · HMI alternative...


I've been following the several "continuous light" threads that have been going on here in the last month or so, and I have come to the following over-simplified conclusion:

there are cheap continuous lights
there are bright continuous lights
there are no bright, cheap continuous lights

It just seems that the physics are against it.

My $0.02 worth

<Chas>



Mar 27, 2012 at 09:49 PM
daverowe
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p.1 #5 · HMI alternative...


peter...for me...its pretty much the direct feedback of the lighting on the subject. what you see...is what you get. its more of a visual aid for me. i might try and buy one of those spotlights just to mess with it. thanks.

cwebster...yuuuup. ha.



Mar 27, 2012 at 11:38 PM
Micky Bill
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p.1 #6 · HMI alternative...


There's a reason they are $129. They are stage lights for theatres and night clubs. The JTL ones are a little better but having a variable dimmer will affect the color temp.

Is there a reason you don't want to shoot tungsten film?



Mar 28, 2012 at 07:24 AM
daverowe
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p.1 #7 · HMI alternative...


Are there still tungsten 4x5 films in production? I thought they were discontinued....i could be very wrong though...lol


Mar 28, 2012 at 01:37 PM
daverowe
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p.1 #8 · HMI alternative...


Any thoughts on a simple 80A blue lens filter?


Mar 28, 2012 at 01:39 PM
Roland W
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p.1 #9 · HMI alternative...


Studio strobes with modeling lights let you see the effects of the lighting perfectly well, and they are commonly available for purchase or rent. The brightness of the modeling lights at around 250 watts or less is just right for a model to have their iris small, but not too bright for them to work and model in. The modeling lights adjust their brightness as you vary the power of the strobe to aid in seeing the lighting of the shot. And with a strobe you can get daylight balanced flash that can end up 6 to 8 stops brighter for exposure compared to a bright halogen light

High power halogen continuous lights can blind the subject, and the heat from them can be hard to take for a model, or hard on still subjects. It is hard to filter high power regular halogen lights to daylight, and your best bet would be fairly expensive dichroic filters made for that use. If you really want or need steady light, HMI is likely your best alternative for something bright, and for that be sure to get one made for photographic uses that has a good color spectrum composition. But as you know all ready the photographic HMI lights are very expensive.

There are medium cost fluorescent lights that are designed for photographic use, and can provide a solution that might work for you. The following link is for a Photoflex Coolstar bulb that could work, and its 125 watts is equal to about 500 watts of halogen. They have low heat, and with the right Photoflex Starlite fixture they can be used in softbox modifiers.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/556002-REG/Photoflex_FV_SLCFL150KT_StarLite_CoolStar_150_Fluorescent.html

I use them occasionally when I need steady light, but that is normally only for video.



Mar 28, 2012 at 02:24 PM
Skarkowtsky
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p.1 #10 · HMI alternative...


Without getting scientific, we should also add that the energy a continuous light commands is partially expelled in waveform, resulting in lights that aren't as bright as they are rated. For instance, a 650 Watt continuous light forfeits some of its intensity to the heat it throws and isn't actually as bright as a strobe set to 650 Ws.

My farewell to hot lights, rather, the last straw was when a 1000w Sun Gun's internal fan failed, the heat from the globe melted the light right off the light stand, and the unit crashed into a glass set, destroying my shoot.

Switched to vintage Speedotron Blackline a few days later. No regrets.



Mar 28, 2012 at 02:40 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Micky Bill
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p.1 #11 · HMI alternative...


Fuji still makes 64T


Mar 28, 2012 at 04:15 PM
plastic_lens
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p.1 #12 · HMI alternative...


Lately photographer's seem to be discovering, or rediscovering, continuous lighting as a source of light. Besides the fact that more and more photographers are learning/using the hi-def video capabilities of their camreras, continuous lighting has been evolving as well. LED banks are beginning to sell more, and these have none of the heat and portability issues of traditional tungstens (fresnels, etc).

Lately I've seen awards going to photographers (Alex Prager is the one I saw last week) that employ "cinema-like" lighting styles, including fresnel spots (HMI and non-HMI). Of course, Gregory Crewdson has been doing this for many years, employing literally 20 or more HMIs to light a particular scene.

If I had expendable cash, I would love to try a Joker Bug set with a "Big Eye":

Joker "Big Eye"

Anyway, I would try to first rent a couple Arri HMIs first to see how they work for your intended purpose. I'm spoiled here in DC in that there at least two huge production companies that provide rentals for motion picture proudctions.



Mar 28, 2012 at 04:32 PM
brucemuir
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p.1 #13 · HMI alternative...


4x5?
What apertures are you hoping to shoot?

You need a LOT of light for 4x5.



Mar 28, 2012 at 04:47 PM
daverowe
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p.1 #14 · HMI alternative...


thanks a ton for the informative feedback so far. i'm thinking about going with a color corrected stobe with model lamp feauture for color work. bw film i can just use anything.

micky bill...where are you getting yours?? maybe im not looking in the right spots, but even online i cant find that stuff anywhere...

brucemuir... mostly wide open at 6.3 to maybe 11. i enjoy slower shutter speeds though, but maybe there is a point where ambient light starts to change color tone with slower speeds? meaning the stobes corrective color effect will start to fade with longer exposures. hopefully that all makes sense...:/ any suggestions?

what would a sufficient power output for say a 100iso film at around f/6 and 1 second shutter be (in a very dimly lit environment) basically i'm trying to see what i can get by with watts wise.

thanks again for the help guys! forgive my little knowledge in the artificial lighting scene



Mar 29, 2012 at 01:10 AM
markd61
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p.1 #15 · HMI alternative...


Dave, try Samy's.

FWIW when I was using 4x5 and 5x7 I found that using any aperture larger than f 8 with continuous light would guarantee a soft image if there were people in it the frame. Strobe made things sharp..

I was looking at your very nice work and am thinking that artistic softness and dreaminess may not be an issue.



Mar 29, 2012 at 03:11 PM
mmurph
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p.1 #16 · HMI alternative...


Shutter speed is irrelevant for strobe, as long as it is 1/100 of a second or slower. (really 1/500 or 1/800 on LF, but just use 1/100 as a rule of thumb.)

The flash itself is very short, and freezes motion like a shutter.

If you have a very dark room and are doing still lifes, you can do multiple "pops" to get more exposure and use f 64, etc if you want. With portraits you need to do it in 1 shot.

You will not have reciprocity issues.

If you want to mix ambient (room) light & flash, you can "drag the shutter", ie use a 1 sec or whatever effective shutter speed you would need to get part of the light from daylight. You might be surprised by varying color temperatures doing that. Perhaps use a digital camera as a "Polaroid"?

If you are lucky enough to have 220/240 volt power available, there are some strobe units that can use 650 watt modelling lights! That is the best of both worlds in one fixture, letting you really see what is on teh set clearly, or possibly shoot some video.

If you do go to hot lights, my personal favorites are Ianiro. Not as common in the US, more often used in Canada and Europe.

You might also want to look at a strobe set that also offers an HMI (such as Profoto or Broncolor - not sure of Speedotron?) That way you can use the same light reflectors & fixtures with the HMI as with strobe. Profoto & Broncolor are expensive though.

Just sold my 6, 4x5 cameras! bad neck & shoulder, too much for me now.

Have fun!

Michael



Mar 30, 2012 at 04:38 AM
Micky Bill
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p.1 #17 · HMI alternative...


For film call The Icon lab in LA on Wilshire.


Mar 30, 2012 at 05:56 AM
daverowe
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p.1 #18 · HMI alternative...


thank you so much for all the feedback guys. such a help. i'm still in the searching phase. thinking about possibly just getting this guy
http://www.adorama.com/PAINT458.html?utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Shopping%20Site&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=gbase

not sure yet.

micky bill...thanks, i'll try that.



Apr 05, 2012 at 11:46 PM
cwebster
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p.1 #19 · HMI alternative...


Well, it's certainly not a continuous light. If you are open to entry level strobes, check out the Alien Bees. They are similarly priced and are backed by excellent customer service.

I don't know what a "S-type bayonet mount" fits, but make sure there is a good assortment of modifiers (softboxes, etc.) available for what ever you buy.

<Chas>



Apr 05, 2012 at 11:57 PM





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