Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

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Archive 2012 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

c2thew
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p.2 #1 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

"That's really too bad because the 150w modeling bulb is not visible in a beauty dish or umbrella and is barely visible in a softbox."

say what

?? I have no problems using the beauty dish with a 150W modeling bulb.

Mar 06, 2012 at 11:01 PM

jzucker
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p.2 #2 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

c2thew wrote:
"That's really too bad because the 150w modeling bulb is not visible in a beauty dish or umbrella and is barely visible in a softbox."

say what

?? I have no problems using the beauty dish with a 150W modeling bulb.

good for you. If you have any natural light in your studio and if you use the 150w bulb with other flash units that have 250w bulbs, the 150w bulb is invisible in a beauty dish with a grid.

There is a reason that most professional studio flash units have 250w bulbs.

Mar 06, 2012 at 11:40 PM

BrianO
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p.2 #3 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

jzucker wrote: ...If you have any natural light in your studio and if you use the 150w bulb with other flash units that have 250w bulbs, the 150w bulb is invisible [to me] in a beauty dish with a grid.

You should (although you still might) have no argument if you change the highlighted words from "you" and "your" to "me" and "my," and if you add the underlined text.

Presuming to speak for others, though, often leads to arguments.

Mar 07, 2012 at 12:29 AM

jzucker
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p.2 #4 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

i think when you post something on a forum, it's presumed you are offering your opinion based on your own experience.

I want to add that I hardly consider myself an expert though I have been using photogenic (250w) and alien bee (150w) for over 10 years and I know what works for me.

Mar 07, 2012 at 01:33 AM

dahicks
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p.2 #5 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

Wasn't the use of 250w modeling lights one of the features that was listed as an improvement in the Einstein? So now the company ships the Einsteins with a 150w bulb to prevent the strobe from over heating. Sounds like a design flaw to me.

What happens with hard use near full power?
I don't see how anyone could purchase lights that over heat with the use of the 250w modeling lights.

Mar 07, 2012 at 06:06 AM

jzucker
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p.2 #6 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

dahicks wrote:
Wasn't the use of 250w modeling lights one of the features that was listed as an improvement in the Einstein? So now the company ships the Einsteins with a 150w bulb to prevent the strobe from over heating. Sounds like a design flaw to me.

What happens with hard use near full power?
I don't see how anyone could purchase lights that over heat with the use of the 250w modeling lights.

I wonder if they are re-engineering it? Does buff do the engineering or is it outsourced? In either case, it's surprising that the issue wasn't discovered prior to testing. I assume the WL x1600 doesn't have any of these types of issues?

Mar 07, 2012 at 12:16 PM

Deezie
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p.2 #7 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

Paul doesn't really test his gear, and he's been upfront about it. It's come back to haunt him a few times. Generally speaking, his gear is fairly reliable, but this is something most come to expect when buying low-cost gear. It's typically a case of your-mileage-may-vary.

Mar 07, 2012 at 04:02 PM

jzucker
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p.2 #8 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

Einstein isn't really cheap though. It's about the same price as the photogenic pl500

Mar 07, 2012 at 04:23 PM

Deezie
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p.2 #9 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

Given its specs, I find it to be a cheaper alternative than most. The Einsteins are likely his most expensive lights, but his gear is almost always cheaper than other brands - especially his softboxes, beauty dishes, Alien Bees, etc.

You'd never compare his build quality and materials with Profoto, Hensel, Bron, Elinchrom. I think Paul offers excellent prices for medium-range gear.

Mar 07, 2012 at 09:48 PM

jdben622
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p.2 #10 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

It's gotta be killing him to read these threads and not be able to respond.

Mar 07, 2012 at 09:56 PM

jzucker
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p.2 #11 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

does the einstein consume less power than the WL 1600 ?

Mar 07, 2012 at 10:02 PM

BrianO
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p.2 #12 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

jzucker wrote: does the einstein consume less power than the WL 1600 ?

I don't know that I've ever seen power consumption specs for either one. They're both rated at less than 8A (they have 8A fuses), but for exact levels you might need to call PCB tech support.

Mar 07, 2012 at 11:25 PM

Deezie
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p.2 #13 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

jdben622 wrote: It's gotta be killing him to read these threads and not be able to respond.

It killed him even when he was able to respond. Paul's a proud man and very protective of his brand. When I owned a set of Alien Bees, I always wished he'd come out with something a little better - and the Einstein line is pretty much what I was hoping for back then. Terrific specs when you think about it, from it's compact size, modest weight, fast recycle, and power.

I've never used it, but I've heard few grumbles from photographers on this forum. I think a couple members weren't crazy about the control functions on the back of the light. But, on paper, it stands as one of the better monolights on the market. And for me, it's reasonably priced for what it delivers.

Mar 08, 2012 at 12:39 AM

nosaya
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p.2 #14 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

Joel Grimes uses the Einsteins. I think the results speak for themselves.

Yes, the Einsteins are a work in progress.
The accessory holding fingers/cams have failed me several times and I am in the process of sending all four of my units back for retrofitting with the newer design. Having said that. I just ordered two more units for a total of six.

For my needs and for most people that I know, these units are more than adequate, I just wish all the bugs had been ironed out before they went to market.

Mar 08, 2012 at 05:51 AM

jzucker
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p.2 #15 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

nosaya wrote:
Joel Grimes uses the Einsteins. I think the results speak for themselves.

That's like saying that Eric Clapton uses a Fender guitar, yada-yada. Grimes' work has to do with his vision more than the equipment.

Yes, the Einsteins are a work in progress.
The accessory holding fingers/cams have failed me several times and I am in the process of sending all four of my units back for retrofitting with the newer design. Having said that. I just ordered two more units for a total of six.

For my needs and for most people that I know, these units are more than adequate, I just wish all the bugs had been ironed out before they went to market.

So why the einstein's vs something else like the photogenic? Better power adjustment? Lighter weight?

Mar 08, 2012 at 11:25 AM

Deezie
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p.2 #16 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

Ultimately, any piece of gear you buy needs to serve your needs in terms of how you consistently shoot. This is why I use Profoto. Built like a tank, reliable and easy to use, which is important if you work long days and time is precious. If they weren't offered in rental houses I'd be using a different brand.

Most photographers buying lights for the first time don't have the benefit of really knowing what their future needs will be when it comes to shooting with strobes. It's a benefit to come to forums like this and find out about lights so that you can purchase gear that can serve your needs as your knowledge of lighting grows. Better to pay just a little bit more and buy once instead of realizing that your gear is not up to task to meet your mounting skills. I think Einstein, Photogenic, Hensel, Elinchrom, Dyna-lite, Bowens all fall into this range of well-established brands that allow you to stay with your original lights, or least grow your gear within the same brand. Familiarity and quality build breeds confidence.

Mar 08, 2012 at 03:22 PM

jzucker
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p.2 #17 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

Agreed but how does that answer my question?

Mar 08, 2012 at 03:26 PM

kenyee
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p.2 #18 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

jzucker wrote:
Einstein isn't really cheap though. It's about the same price as the photogenic pl500

If you want to use the constant color or motion stopping features of the Einstein, you should compare it w/ the Photogenic Solaire, which isn't bad either, but some people have complained that the Solaire has built quality issues too. The Solaire is more expensive and bigger, but has more power.

FWIW, I've used the 250W Einstein bulb in a gridded Speedotron BD w/o any problems. Ditto w/ softboxes, but in softboxes, it's mostly for aiming and then I shut it off because it heats up the room too much. For the BD, I leave it on because I want closed irises in beauty shots.

I look at it more from the modifier standpoint...can you put the modifiers you want on it? I like the PCB foldable softboxes a lot but wish they had a taller stripbox. You can also attach the Elinchrom mods (their D-O is nice though it could be more robust) on it w/ a Kacey adapter. For large modifiers, get a speedring that can be attached directly to a lightstand w/ a spigot and hang the Einstein off the speedring instead of vice versa.

p.s., for your original question, why not just buy both, try them and return the one you don't like? They do have a nice 60 day return policy. That way you'll know for sure what you like better depending on *your* criteria....

Mar 08, 2012 at 03:38 PM

jzucker
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p.2 #19 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

I already have 2 photogenics and an ab400 but my beautydish adapter is for the AB and according to kacey, the ab has the unique property that the flash tube bits entirely within the entry to the dish. I found that the ab400 doesn't have enough power to get to F8 so I wanted something like a 1600.

Oh, I see...You're saying get the 1600 and the einstein...

Mar 08, 2012 at 03:54 PM

hugowolf
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p.2 #20 · Paul Buff Einstein vs white lighting x1600

jzucker wrote:
nosaya wrote:
Joel Grimes uses the Einsteins. I think the results speak for themselves.
That's like saying that Eric Clapton uses a Fender guitar, yada-yada. Grimes' work has to do with his vision more than the equipment.

Yes, the Einsteins are a work in progress.
The accessory holding fingers/cams have failed me several times and I am in the process of sending all four of my units back for retrofitting with the newer design. Having said that. I just ordered two more units for a total of six.
For my needs and for most people that I know, these units are more than adequate, I just wish all the bugs had been ironed out before they went to market.

So why the einstein's vs something else like the photogenic? Better power adjustment? Lighter weight?
Those and the remote control system. But there are no perfect lights, and the Einstein is no exception to that. Hensels, for example are great value, with great system accessories, great rear panel controls, but probably too heavy for many.

With the Einstein you have weight, size, color consistency, duration, remote control, and price. On the down side, the same cubic and smooth surfaced housing that provides lightweightedness and compactness makes tilting and swiveling the light difficult, and this is exuberated by the lack of a handle. Moving the lights using a mounted modifier isn’t a good idea, because the Balcar mount isn’t stella either. The user interface is a mess and there is the modeling light problems already discussed.

I find the 300 W modeling lights on the Profoto D1 heads to be a real boon when shooting with strong ambient lighting. There are really only two downsides to the D1s: the built in reflectors (which on occasion are a help) and the price.

The price of the Einstein, compared to European competitors, is really down to cutting out the middle men: the importer, distributer, and retailer. The constant color and short duration isn’t new, others including Photogenic have done that for a while.

You could go through each system and point out weaknesses and strengths, and ultimately, only you can decide which system best fits your needs.

Brian A

Mar 08, 2012 at 04:06 PM

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