I think trenchmonkey's succinct statement pretty much sums it up.
Camera guides take the user from the basic settings through to the more advanced settings in a progressive, step-wise way that makes sense to a photographer. As a trainer, I can very much relate to this approach.....
The manual explains how each feature works, although not necessarily the context in which to use it.
It's a bit like the difference between taking language lessons and reading a dictionary!
The folding quick reference guides cover the basics to get started. They may be enough for you, but for most people, a bit more explanation is often required. Different people have different styles of learning - the teaching style/medium has to suit the individual to get the best results. As a trainer/ coach it's something I deal with every day.
I bought David Busch's D300 guide book and I absolutely learned a LOT from it. It explained stuff in plain English and you'll never get bored while reading it - Unlike the camera manual.
gfinlayson wrote:
The folding quick reference guides cover the basics to get started. They may be enough for you, but for most people, a bit more explanation is often required. Different people have different styles of learning - the teaching style/medium has to suit the individual to get the best results. As a trainer/ coach it's something I deal with every day.
You don't learn how to take photos from a 300 page book. The fact that you're busy as a trainer is proof of this.
I do work with a darkroom and we train people without the typical 50 page, 30 year old, photocopied 15 times manuals. We keep the film development times bible handy, but for anything else we teach through doing. So far, nobody has even requested a manual, or needed one.
I attended a seminar on Nikon flashes. The instructor put it this way: "The manual tells you how to change settings. I teach you why you want to change them." Big difference.
Zebrabot wrote:
You don't learn how to take photos from a 300 page book. The fact that you're busy as a trainer is proof of this. I do work with a darkroom and we train people without the typical 50 page, 30 year old, photocopied 15 times manuals. We keep the film development times bible handy, but for anything else we teach through doing. So far, nobody has even requested a manual, or needed one.
You are comparing teaching a process or way with teaching facts. Apples and oranges.
It's the difference between technique and technical details. You can and should teach technique first (process), even if it is only rudimentary. At some point, people who want to master it will want technical details. That informs and enlightens technique which then improves and deepens.
One can become a kind of a master by repetition in the same tradtion as things like sushi chefs being masters in part by preparing the sushi rice thousands of times. But sushi preparation is not a technical art like photography which uses precision technical instruments and processes.
One can become a very good printer by repetition, trial and error, getting extremely good at things like dodging and burning.
But to become a master printer like Ansel Adams, making archival prints of the highest quality and overcoming significant technical challenges, one has to have an understanding of chemistry and optics as well as lengthy actual experience using them.
The process of composing pictures and seeing lighting is somewhat intuitive and can be learned to some extent by lots of repetition. It is very different from the technical details needed to make a streaked photo of an athlete with a sharp image at the end of the action. The former doesn't need a manual, though it benefits from looking at thousands of well-composed and well-lit photographs, so in a sense books of photographs are the manual for that. The latter can be taught by a lot of hand-waving and laborious description, but really does benefit from studying a manual with diagrams and charts and photographs of equipment like focal plane shutters.
tdong wrote:
may be you miss my point. I use nikon since d70 and now D3. I know all the functions there is to know after so many year already. all the info i need are in the LCD menu. I assure you I don't need to read the manual for the D800 I just order. Yes I do need to expand my photographic horizons and mind by travelling more and take more pictures other than that no need to spend days in reading all the functions I already know from previous camera
Fine. Your level of high technical mastery was not stated or given or in evidence in your original post.
Many people who do not have your great degree of competence gain it in part by reading manuals and guides.
Many people, unlike you, may not have used a DSLR before buying one, and therefore like to read guides and manuals.
Many people, unlike you, may be new to photography, and thus benefit from reading manuals and guides.
Many people are not like you. Therefore they do not behave like you and have good reasons for doing so.
A person makes a mistake when they generalize over too many people their own current state of being.
I bought the E-book for the A77 (Gary Friedman, excellent book) before I had even decided whether I wanted to buy the camera or not because the preview pages were excellent (and yes I did end up ordering the A77
Then I paid for the $5 GoodReader on my Ipad just to open and read the thing. $30 well-spent.
I would say if you can, preview the book - some authors put a LOT of time into their books and uncover stuff you wouldn't think about trying or testing yourself.
Other authors will fill the book with lots of pages of useless stuff (like spending 30 pages on all the JPEG and print options - who gives a crap!?)
trenchmonkey wrote:
Manuals may well be written by engineers...guides typically by photographers.
One's usually an easier read, but there are important nuggets to be found in each camp.
I agree. I always like the book/guides. Then, after I read them, I find stuff I need to know in the manual. Strange. Manuals are like chaos creations. Books and guides try to unravel the manual chaos.
Sorry maybe didn't write what I really had on my mind, and assumed many of us should have at least a nikon DSLR. Would you or trenchmokey (I know him from bird forum) buy a guide if you order the d800 or d4.
Monito wrote:
Fine. Your level of high technical mastery was not stated or given or in evidence in your original post.
Many people who do not have your great degree of competence gain it in part by reading manuals and guides.
Many people, unlike you, may not have used a DSLR before buying one, and therefore like to read guides and manuals.
Many people, unlike you, may be new to photography, and thus benefit from reading manuals and guides.
Many people are not like you. Therefore they do not behave like you and have good reasons for doing so.
A person makes a mistake when they generalize over too many people their own current state of being. ...Show more →
Zebrabot wrote:
You don't learn how to take photos from a 300 page book. The fact that you're busy as a trainer is proof of this.
I do work with a darkroom and we train people without the typical 50 page, 30 year old, photocopied 15 times manuals. We keep the film development times bible handy, but for anything else we teach through doing. So far, nobody has even requested a manual, or needed one.
The guide books aren't about how to take photos, they're about how to use the camera and what the various buttons, switches and settings do.
If you buy a new car, the user manual explains the controls and switches, not how to drive.....
I only read the manuals when I go pooping in the loo , otherwise I only scramble through it if I encounter some feature during the shoot that I haven't used before or if I'm trying to accomplish something and ending being stuck at it... well a manual is probably next to being a cheat sheet?
tdong wrote:
Sorry maybe didn't write what I really had on my mind, and assumed many of us should have at least a nikon DSLR. Would you or trenchmokey (I know him from bird forum) buy a guide if you order the d800 or d4.
Unlike most people who buy cameras even in the D800 and D4 class (many of them dentists and lawyers), I'm an experienced photographer. I would not buy the guide book (did not for first DSLR either) but I would definitely read the camera manual from cover to cover, in detail,because I'm experienced.
tdong are you vietnamese by any chance? I was just curious because your style of typing resembles that of a few friends I have 100%. If you don't feel like you need to buy a guide then don't. But... it never hurts to read the guide anyway. You MIGHT learn something new(about the camera that is or a certain function).
, otherwise I only scramble through it if I encounter some feature during the shoot that I haven't used before or if I'm trying to accomplish something and ending being stuck at it... well a manual is probably next to being a cheat sheet? 