This last weekend I attempted to strobe a college basketball game. I contacted the league and was told that there was no restriction against it but that the on-court officials could ask me to stop anytime if it was deemed unsafe or overly distracting and to inform those officials before the game.
As a courtesy I also told the two head coaches. One coach told me outright "no" and I told them that it was approved by the league and the officials have the final say. The officials had no problem whatsoever with it. I made some conciliations (which was probably my first mistake... backing down) and told the coach I would not fire during free throws and attempt to not strobe while players were shooting.
About 30 second in, after a total of 2 shots (tip-off and one other) the coach ranted and raved and told me the lights had to be turned off with a few choice swear words in the mix. The head official told me to ignore the coach but for me it just wasn't worth the fight. I turned them off and shot the rest of the game without them.
So, besides backing down what did I do wrong? I had printed out the email from the league allowing me to use them, I had the backing of one coach and all 3 officials and I showed that I could make adjustments to make everyone happy.
This might be one of the rare times where I would have not backed down. If that coach was the ONLY one and you had all your bases covered beforehand with no objections from the opposing coach, officials, or SID, then I would have held my ground and strobed it.
capitalK wrote:
So, besides backing down what did I do wrong? I had printed out the email from the league allowing me to use them, I had the backing of one coach and all 3 officials and I showed that I could make adjustments to make everyone happy.
You took it farther than you needed to. By that, I mean you had no reason to go to the coaches. You had approval from the league (assuming you also had permission from those who run the facility and let you place your strobes?). Bringing the matter up with the coaches was, IMO, unnecessary. Frankly, I'm not surprised one of them complained since you basically alerted him to be on the lookout for what you were doing. I'm not suggesting you should have hidden anything or been deceitful, but I've yet to meet a coach who knows anything about photography or strobing an event like this. They just don't have a clue and now some guy is talking to them before the game about not shooting during free throws or while they're shooting. It raised too many red flags and you paid the price.
If the league (and facility) gave you permission, you were good to go. Anything you did beyond that--while it might have seemed like a courtesy to you--just opened the door for them to complain. Now, had you gotten permission from the facility and they still complained, then you'd have been out of luck. We'll never know, but I'd bet the price of a 1d Mk4 body no one would have complained.
I've strobed HS basketball, volleyball and wrestling for the past 8-9 years, as well as D2 hoops and volleyball, and have shot a ton of D1 games where strobes were used by as many as three photographers per game. Never once--not once--has anyone complained. Not a coach, player, fan, official...no one.
In a South Park voice... "You will respect my authority..."
Your first mistake was giving up the upper hand. Act like you belong there and they will respect your position. Don't ask. If you use the proper amount of strobe power and direct the light correctly, and don't shoot during free throws, nobody will bother you.
I have never once had anyone bother me on strobes. I have had refs ask me to sit further away from the baseline on occasion but never once have I been even asked about my strobes.
Scott and Paul both nailed this and I completely concur with them. Permission from the individual coaches wasn't needed, so just get your required approvals and do what you came there to do.
This has happened to me on a couple of occasions. I shoot for a University (had been for a few years at the time) and I had a volleyball coach ask me not to strobe and once I had a visiting basketball coach ask me not to strobe. I shoot for this University and don't want bad blood from a coach when I am going to be there on a regular basis. I also know that the SID and public relations folks don't want people going home and complaining about the University's photog. On both occasions, I immediately said no problem, shut off the strobes and shot at ISO 10,000 for the game. To me it is all about relationships; not shooting one game and then straightening it out later is worth it to me. I have to admit that I really considered pushing it on the basketball game because I was also shooting for the local paper and was unsure if they would like an ISO 10K image...it worked out fine and I got paid and nobody was any worse off.
Just my two cents.
pjbuehner wrote:
This has happened to me on a couple of occasions. I shoot for a University (had been for a few years at the time) and I had a volleyball coach ask me not to strobe and once I had a visiting basketball coach ask me not to strobe. I shoot for this University and don't want bad blood from a coach when I am going to be there on a regular basis. I also know that the SID and public relations folks don't want people going home and complaining about the University's photog. On both occasions, I immediately said no problem, shut off the strobes and shot at ISO 10,000 for the game. To me it is all about relationships; not shooting one game and then straightening it out later is worth it to me. I have to admit that I really considered pushing it on the basketball game because I was also shooting for the local paper and was unsure if they would like an ISO 10K image...it worked out fine and I got paid and nobody was any worse off.
Just my two cents.
I'm curious, did you run this by the coaches before the event in these situations?
I want to be clear that I'm not suggesting that anyone be disrespectful or not polite. I would shut down strobes if someone asked me to once I got started; it just has never happened. I'm only suggesting that the OP sort of set this up for people to be watching for issues by trying to get approval from people he really didn't need approval from in the first place.
pjbuehner wrote:
On both occasions, I immediately said no problem, shut off the strobes and shot at ISO 10,000 for the game. To me it is all about relationships; not shooting one game and then straightening it out later is worth it to me. I have to admit that I really considered pushing it on the basketball game because I was also shooting for the local paper and was unsure if they would like an ISO 10K image...it worked out fine and I got paid and nobody was any worse off.
If the newspaper is shooting is using this for the web or newsprint (not a magazine for instance), and without knowing what you shoot, in my experience, there is not a current professional or prosumer camera made by a major manufacturer (certainly Canon or Nikon) that will produce an image at it's maximum ISO (or even ISO expansion) that will seriously affect the reproducibility on newsprint.
I was shooting a 7D this weekend and last week and if I needed to, i would have been very comfortable submitting images at ISO 64,000 or the expansion setting of ISO 128,000 if I knew that was the only way to get quality images.
Newsprint is very forgiving, especially due to it's dot gain.
For a magazine cover or double trunk or other large image on a higher quality publication, you run into problems.
I've came up against this exact situation shooting HS Volleyball last season. I notified the AD of my intent to shoot with strobes and got the OK. Four points into the first match the visiting coach complained to the referee's, and then they huddled up. I thought, oh well it was nice while it lasted. The referee's broke their huddle, spoke to the coach and play went on. Rather shocked I sat there a bit then went on shooting. After the game I went to the referee's break room and introduced myself and asked about their conversation with the coach. They of course told me the coach complained about the strobes and asked that they'd be turned off. They said they talked it over and all three of the referee's decided the strobes were setup correctly and that they were not concerned about them effecting game play or safety. Ahhh to have such support all of the time.
Fast forward to last weekend shooting a HS Regional Girl's basketball game. Half way into the second quarter one of the schools scorer complained to the official about the strobes. The official then came over and informed that there was a complaint about the strobes and then told me to turn them off. I asked who complained, because clearly the coach did not. He said "Both side are complaining" which was an out right lie. But it's their court so I polity complied.
Point is, for me anyway, it has become a crap shoot on who will support the use of strobes and who will not. And the majority of the AD's do not want any negative views on their watch (and rightly so) that they have no vested interest in fighting for you.
But back to the OT, I would have continued shooting with the strobes until the official, or the SID asked me to quit.
Scott Sewell wrote:
I'm curious, did you run this by the coaches before the event in these situations?
I want to be clear that I'm not suggesting that anyone be disrespectful or not polite. I would shut down strobes if someone asked me to once I got started; it just has never happened. I'm only suggesting that the OP sort of set this up for people to be watching for issues by trying to get approval from people he really didn't need approval from in the first place.
I didn't. However I was shooting during warmups to set my exposure and that is when they protested. I have never had an issue during game play. The only other time I even had it mentioned was by a visiting coach who said jokingly that he hoped I strobed a lot more in the second half (I was set up on one end). Never was an issue but I have always wondered about those that shoot one end at a time especially if you leave early.
Cheers,
Peter
Scott Sewell wrote:
You took it farther than you needed to. By that, I mean you had no reason to go to the coaches. You had approval from the league (assuming you also had permission from those who run the facility and let you place your strobes?). Bringing the matter up with the coaches was, IMO, unnecessary. Frankly, I'm not surprised one of them complained since you basically alerted him to be on the lookout for what you were doing. I'm not suggesting you should have hidden anything or been deceitful, but I've yet to meet a coach who knows anything about photography or strobing an event like this. They just don't have a clue and now some guy is talking to them before the game about not shooting during free throws or while they're shooting. It raised too many red flags and you paid the price.
If the league (and facility) gave you permission, you were good to go. Anything you did beyond that--while it might have seemed like a courtesy to you--just opened the door for them to complain. Now, had you gotten permission from the facility and they still complained, then you'd have been out of luck. We'll never know, but I'd bet the price of a 1d Mk4 body no one would have complained.
I've strobed HS basketball, volleyball and wrestling for the past 8-9 years, as well as D2 hoops and volleyball, and have shot a ton of D1 games where strobes were used by as many as three photographers per game. Never once--not once--has anyone complained. Not a coach, player, fan, official...no one....Show more →
Sorry I don't post on here very often, but I have quite a bit of experience with this matter in particular. Let me start by saying that I have had strobes up in a major D1 college for years. According to the NCAA rules on strobes, as long as they are being properly used, there is not much anyone can say about them being shut off. I have had many discussions over this with officials. The only caveat in this is the rule that trumps all rules, player safety. Which for strobes is pretty hard to stretch, but I have had it happen once. A visiting volleyball coach was down in the match, and complained to a official that one of her players had epilepsy. Although a single camera flash has not been found to trigger seizures (if anything the pulsing pre-flash would on a on-camera strobe) the player safety card was played and I shut them down.
These usually apply to the championship events, but it is also used for their general policy (the area may have more strict regulations, etc...). And just as a note, if you are shooting and get confronted by an official, it is NEVER your place to make your case to them. You find the SID, explain what is going on, and have them help you. If you take it upon yourself, your chances of winning that argument go to about 0.
