The first step towards possibly reaching a *reasonable* compromise with the church would be to in fact respect them by signing the paper.
I presume it is being handed to you by the couple, which means that THEY are aware of it, which should be your biggest concern.
I don't face this kind of problem down here (haven't yet, anyway) ... but one thing I've thought about doing if it came to that was to ask someone who officiated a wedding I shot to write a brief "recommendation note" basically stating that I shot a wedding they officiated on such and such date, I respected the officiant, the staff and the importance of the event and that I conducted myself in a professional way that never drew attention to me by either the officiant or any of the families attending"
I think that handing something like that over to the officiant while saying something like "you are the authority here and I will respect your decision no matter what it is, however I would like to plead with you to allow me to provide restrained, respectful coverage for my clients" might be more effective than refusing to sign the church's paper.
Chris Beaumont wrote:
Isn't this why you have your super emergency ipad law pdf?
Welcome back anyway.
Yeah unfortunately that doesn't work with the Church. It's private property and as such they can just kick you out.
What really gets me about this is that they didn't even try to contact or talk to me and there's no number or name on it for me to contact. They basically just gave it to the bride and said "You need to get your photographer to sign this or else".
Brides talking to them on monday, I'll try and find the right contact after that and give them a call.
First line of defence:
Do you believe the Royal wedding was reverent and correct? Okay you realise just how many photographers and videographers they had right?
Second line of defence:
So you're website, in the wedding section you have photos of weddings taken during the ceremony.
Third line:
Go speak to X, Y, Z vicar and BK's mom. They'll all tell you I'm cool.
Ah come on, it's never about respect, it's about a powerplay, I had a similar thing in August, trendy new Vicar "no photos at all during the ceremony, to respect the couple and their ceremony"
Couple wanted photos, REALLY wanted photos, wanted photos to the extent that they told me to ignore him in as subtle a way as possible and they'd deal with any fall out (as it happened the only fallout was some short, weeble-esque Verger tutting at me)
He didn't care about THEIR wishes, he cared about getting it the way he wanted.
Bollocks to Religion and their emotional manipulation, bollocks to all of it.
Inku Yo wrote:
By NOT signing it, you won't be shooting anything.
That's the thing which has got me wondering. What happens if I don't sign it? Would the church refuse the wedding? Would they just ban me (not that they know who I am)?
ai3x wrote:
That's the thing which has got me wondering. What happens if I don't sign it? Would the church refuse the wedding? Would they just ban me (not that they know who I am)?
I see no harm in signing it as long as the bride and groom are aware. When churches, etc... spring that on me, I make sure they tell me while the couple is right there with me.
As long as the couple are aware and agree, yes. They make the decision on where to get married, not me and part of the decision is whether the relevant photographic coverage they wish is allowed.
I've now added a line to my contract saying that I will not knowingly break any venue rules governing photography because of couples asking me to break them and risk my reputation.
I am appalled by this request from a church. I agree the ceremony is a blessed event but some priests and ministers take it to the extreme with their demands. Don't they get it? The bride and groom paid to have their ceremony at the church. Technically they are renting the space for an hour. What gives anyone the right to say what you can and can't do. Organized religion kills me. They won't let you shoot in the church during the ceremony but they can molest altar boys. Ok I know that was uncalled for.
Mark_L wrote:
I've now added a line to my contract saying that I will not knowingly break any venue rules governing photography because of couples asking me to break them and risk my reputation.
I'm impressed by your consciencous actions, but I think this is ass backwards (I don't mean you, I mean society as a whole) - it should be the vicars, clergy and vergers that are seen as the anti-social dicks for disallowing something the COUPLE WANTS at their wedding for their own selfish aims and goals and opinions, unwilling to put the client's wishes above their own stubborness.
It just seems like your racist Grandma, we all know we should tell her you're not supposed to say things like that anymore, but we just tiptoe around it and hope she'll get the memo eventually.
MarcAnthony wrote:
I am appalled by this request from a church. I agree the ceremony is a blessed event but some priests and ministers take it to the extreme with their demands. Don't they get it? The bride and groom paid to have their ceremony at the church. Technically they are renting the space for an hour. What gives anyone the right to say what you can and can't do. Organized religion kills me. They won't let you shoot in the church during the ceremony but they can molest altar boys. Ok I know that was uncalled for.
I guess I'll be the unlikely defender of organized religion ... (my wife would be proud, my MIL would have a heart attack) ...
A church is NOT a wedding venue. The Bride and Groom are not "renting the space for an hour" ... it used to be that churches didn't charge for weddings... the parents of the couple were expected to make a significant donation but there wasn't a "$800 to get married here" fee. Now I understand that SOME churches do in fact have a fee. I presume that's largely bourne of the modern habit of couples to go get married in the FANCIER church rather than in *their* church ... which may have left a few of the FANCIER churches burned when the parents made a donation that wasn't commensurate with the event, probably partially because they weren't giving to THEIR CHURCH.
Anyway... the transaction is supposed to be one of "can we get married here?" "yes" "oh thank you we are so grateful" ... not "how much to rent this joint" "800" "great we'll have the run of the place"
If the clients don't give a crap about organized religion they have TONS of non-church options available to them - if they want the church they get the rules as well.
I don't shoot weddings, so take this with healthy dose of salt. What happens if you don't sign? What happens if more and more photog's don't sign? Perhaps it'll eventually send a message to the clergy that although a wedding is indeed a sacred religious ceremony, they need to remember that it is also a social event and a huge deal for the new couple, their families and their friends. It appears that in many cases clergy have forgotten that the newlyweds want to be able to remember in both words and images this day for the rest of their lives. I suggest you apologzie to the couple, not sign it and either wait for a phone call, or take another job for that day.
... (my wife would be proud, my MIL would have a heart attack) ...