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Archive 2012 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D
  
 
stevenaronson
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p.1 #1 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


I am an avid ametuer sports photographer. I shoot all varieties of indoor and outdoor youth sports, primarily high school, with a 7D + 70-200/2.8L, 85/1.8, and 15-55/2.8. I am interested in investing in upgrades with two goals:

1. Increasing reach, specifically for field sports
2. Improved AF and noise in low light (High School Gyms)

My primary targets are a 300/2.8L (any version) and a 1D (1V or -X)

1. What are some good criteria for selecting between a Mark IV and a 1D-X?
2. Does the difference between the APS-C and the full frame sensor impact my choice for a telephoto lens for outdoor sports?




Feb 08, 2012 at 08:34 PM
TrojanHorse
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p.1 #2 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


1) good question, nobody has a 1dx yet but the 1dx is FF, and the 1div is 1.3 so your average field sports photog *may* prefer the 1d4 unless he has 400 and larger lenses.

2) Absolutely. If you think 200 is short with a 1.6 crop, wait till you try it on full frame.



Feb 09, 2012 at 06:55 AM
msalvetti
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p.1 #3 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


Hi Steve. I also shoot HS sports on an amateur basis, in Saugus. My main tools are a 7D, 70-200 f/2.8, and a 100-400.

If I had the money, I would go with the MkIV. I also shoot nature and aviation, and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to lose the 1.6 or 1.3 crop. I might feel differently if I could afford a 500L, but I'm not going there anytime soon.

My outdoor sports are soccer and baseball, always in daylight, so the 100-400 is OK for that. If you can also add the 300, I know I'd prefer that over the 100-400, especially since it works so well with a 1.4xTC if you need it. I'd miss the zoom, but I could adapt if I could afford the 300.

So my vote is MkIV + 300, or MkIV + 100-400 (or Sigma 120-300?) if money was more of an issue.

Mark



Feb 09, 2012 at 04:29 PM
DLP
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p.1 #4 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


stevenaronson wrote:
I am an avid ametuer sports photographer. I shoot all varieties of indoor and outdoor youth sports, primarily high school, with a 7D + 70-200/2.8L, 85/1.8, and 15-55/2.8. I am interested in investing in upgrades with two goals:

1. Increasing reach, specifically for field sports
2. Improved AF and noise in low light (High School Gyms)

My primary targets are a 300/2.8L (any version) and a 1D (1V or -X)

1. What are some good criteria for selecting between a Mark IV and a 1D-X?
2. Does the difference between the APS-C and the full frame sensor impact my choice for a telephoto lens for
...Show more


Steve,
First welcome to FM! The 7D is a great choice for your subject. Even if you see improvement in noise with a MKIV you loose reach so there may not be any appreciable gain depending on how you shoot. The MKX is an unknown at this juncture and FF so even more loss in reach.
I'd opt to add glass instead of a new body. The 300 2.8IS being a first pick if you can accept the price point of a 1Dx or on a more practical scale the 100-400L which works very nicely with the 7D and other glass you have.

Dave



Feb 09, 2012 at 05:03 PM
surf monkey
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p.1 #5 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


stevenaronson wrote:
I am an avid ametuer sports photographer. I shoot all varieties of indoor and outdoor youth sports, primarily high school, with a 7D + 70-200/2.8L, 85/1.8, and 15-55/2.8. I am interested in investing in upgrades with two goals:

1. Increasing reach, specifically for field sports
2. Improved AF and noise in low light (High School Gyms)

My primary targets are a 300/2.8L (any version) and a 1D (1V or -X)

1. What are some good criteria for selecting between a Mark IV and a 1D-X?
2. Does the difference between the APS-C and the full frame sensor impact my choice for a telephoto lens for
...Show more

Goal #1 increasing reach: Getting the 1D4 will decrease reach to 77%. Getting the full frame 1Dx will decrease reach to 62.5%
Goal #2 improved AF and noise: The 1D4 will dramatically improve AF and noise. The 1Dx isn't available, but all indications is that AF will improve slightly and noise levels will be extremely low (the best possible solution in this regard)

Differences between 1D4 and 1Dx - obviously more reach with the 1D4 and a bit more MP with the 1Dx. Very good high ISO with the 1D4 is trumped by class leading high ISO performance in the 1Dx. The full frame 1Dx obviously means you'll need longer and much more expensive glass.
Differences between APS-C and full frame for lens choice. Calculate a factor of 1.6 for the difference although some of that will be erased by the superior IQ of full frame.
So a 200mm lens on APS-C is equivalent to 320mm on full frame
300 = 480
400 = 640
500 = 800

A 1Dx + 500f4 is equivalent to a 7D + 300f2.8 (roughly calculated with the superior high ISO of the 1Dx making up for the loss of 1-stop from the lens)

Things to consider:
For indoor sports most of the action is relatively close so to improve IQ you might want a 1D4.
For outdoor sports go with long and fast lenses. A used 400f2.8 may be the ticket if 300f2.8 isn't long enough. But with high school you should have no trouble getting close to the action.

You may want to move this thread or start another one in the Sports forum.



Feb 09, 2012 at 05:39 PM
msalvetti
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p.1 #6 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


surf monkey wrote:
You may want to move this thread or start another one in the Sports forum.


No, they'll move it back. This is too generic a gear question for Sports. If you want to talk about something specific, like strobe setups in a gym, ask there.

General gear questions like this one will likely be quickly moved by the moderator back here.

Mark



Feb 09, 2012 at 08:54 PM
palmor
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p.1 #7 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


You might be able to squeeze some more out of your 7d's high ISO capability depending on your current noise reduction techniques. That would let you invest in the lenses instead (assuming you're not looking at upgrading everything at once).

If that is the case post up some examples and maybe we can help

John



Feb 10, 2012 at 03:52 AM
stevenaronson
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p.1 #8 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


Thank you for all of the great responses. As a new poster, I now realize that I need to add some clarification to my request for advice:

I love my 7D and some of my glass. These have allowed me to move from rank amatuer to pictures that are starting to capture the images as I would like to present them.

What I have noticed recently is when I am shooting indoors next to a photographer with a pro body, even with the same lens, their images have lower noise and better color saturation. I am reasonably ready to make the next big investment for both body and lenses. I have been comparing the following combinations of upgrades:

1. 1D Mark IV and 300/2.8L (probably used)
2. 1D-X and either 300/2.8L or 400/2.8L (to match the reach of the Marvk IV + 300)

I would continue to use the 85/1.8 and probably add something wide (24-70/2.8L) as I like the different look of wide angle for sports.

I know that this adds up to several boat payments, but as someone with no artistic abilities, I fell lucky to have found a craft that allows me to be creative.

I would appreciate any further feedback.



Feb 17, 2012 at 01:11 AM
 

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Ian.Dobinson
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p.1 #9 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


stevenaronson wrote:
Thank you for all of the great responses. As a new poster, I now realize that I need to add some clarification to my request for advice:

I love my 7D and some of my glass. These have allowed me to move from rank amatuer to pictures that are starting to capture the images as I would like to present them.

What I have noticed recently is when I am shooting indoors next to a photographer with a pro body, even with the same lens, their images have lower noise and better color saturation. I am reasonably ready to make the next
...Show more

The m4 and 300 would probably be my choice but the 1Dx and 400 would be great if you can afford it.
But
Let me throw 1 spanner in the works.

How many stops better is that guy next to you getting with the 'pro' body.? When you are using the 70-200? Do you feel that 200 is enough reach on the 1.6 crop? (320 ff equive)
If yes then maybe would the 200/2 or even 200/1.8 be the better purchase? That would allow you to drop the iso down 1 whole stop
Just a thought



Feb 17, 2012 at 01:28 AM
AJay
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p.1 #10 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


When you are shooting next to someone else with let's say the Mark IV, the noise might be lower but you've got better resolution. Side-by-side, if you took images from each camera and cropped them identically, the Mark IV will require greater cropping since it is a 1.3x sensor compared to your 7D with a 1.6x sensor. Because it is being cropped more significantly, your apparent noise level will increase more with the Mark IV. Once the image is cropped identically, the differences between both bodies is not that great. Slightly lower noise with the Mark IV, slightly higher resolution with the 7D. Post-processing the images using noise reduction + sharpening reveals almost identical image quality.

Now...if you can move closer to the subject, the Mark IV is the clear winner, but when comparisons are done from the same distance, the additional cropping required from the Mark IV virtually equalizes the image quality from both cameras.

The 1DX (in my opinion since we really haven't been able to analyze raw images) will give you lower noise but less resolution. For sports, it may not matter but for feather detail on a bird, I suspect it could be questionable as if the 1DX has enough resolution.

I would wait on the camera until months after the 1DX has been thoroughly tested before deciding on a pro body camera.

As far as the lens is concerned, if you main objective is sports, I'd go with the 300/2.8L and take along a 1.4x TC and a 2x TC depending how close you are located to the action.




Feb 17, 2012 at 01:28 AM
tshore
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p.1 #11 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


+1 on the tc idea. For about $300 you can extend your reach by 40% with the 1.4x, or even 100% with the 2x. People who peep at pixels (not me! ) say the 2x decreases image quality, esp. wide open, but I just got a 2x ii to use on my 70-200L is ii for shooting birds and have been very pleased with the results so far. The 2x does slow autofocus a bit, but it is still quite usable. Much better than cropping, and thousand less than many other options.


Feb 17, 2012 at 04:56 AM
AJay
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p.1 #12 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


As a follow up on the TC 2x, the III is excellent! Worth every penny. A must have for any telephoto lens.


Feb 17, 2012 at 01:41 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #13 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


1D III is probably better in low light for AF than 1D IV and from my shooting does very at ISO 3200. It's certainly got better AF than the 7D. Main trouble is the low pixel count, so you'll need longer glass, but that's a better option than cropping if you can afford it.


Feb 18, 2012 at 07:11 AM
capt don
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p.1 #14 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


I have owned the mark IV, currently own the 7d and my trusty old mark IIn and for sports and wildlife the 7d in my opinion gives me more with crop ability and quality than the Mark IV and for speed and durability but not as many high tech features is my old Mark IIn. I took the money that I spent on the Mark IV and bought a 500m lens and that has been my best purchase to date. Maybe the new canon will be better, but it should be for almost $8000. That would buy a lot of hot lenses which I feel is what makes the shot.


Feb 18, 2012 at 12:32 PM
TrojanHorse
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p.1 #15 · Upgrade path from Canon 7D


stevenaronson wrote:
What I have noticed recently is when I am shooting indoors next to a photographer with a pro body, even with the same lens, their images have lower noise and better color saturation.


Just out of curiosity, how are you able to determine the noise and color saturation? Are they sending you raw files to check out?



Feb 18, 2012 at 06:30 PM





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