Jim Victory wrote:
This is my point. I don't want the 7D AF in the new 5D. They should have something better than this base solely on technical improvements. Do you want the current 7D AF in a new 7D? No you would probably want something a little better.
We have had the old AF technology used in a newer camera with the 5D II. Even an improved variant of the 7D AF in the new 5D would be better.
Jim Victory wrote:
This is my point. I don't want the 7D AF in the new 5D. They should have something better than this base solely on technical improvements. Do you want the current 7D AF in a new 7D? No you would probably want something a little better.
We have had the old AF technology used in a newer camera with the 5D II. Even an improved variant of the 7D AF in the new 5D would be better.
Jim
Well I agree with you, I just thought it went without saying that there would be improvements.
akin_t wrote:
Well, not to burst your bubble but given Canon's track record, it's the closest you're going to get.
You are not going to get the 1DX's AF nor are you going to get the 1DIV's AF ... If the 5DmkII's replacement get's a 1-Series AF system, I'll be really surprised.
Even if Canon chooses to implement the 7D's AF ... Don't be silly, of course it won't be the same thing. Do you think they were sleeping between 2009 and 2012? There will be improvements.
I think they were sleeping between 2005 and 2008...
jamesf99 wrote:
Why accept another crippled AF system like that found in the 7d (and yes, it absolutely is crippled even if it's better than the circa 1995 stuff we have in the 5 series)?
I still think this is a troll thread even if the OP has over 6000 posts. He should have learned better by now. But to correct a few things. Specifically the "1995 stuff" statement.
I purchased an Elan IIe in 2000 that had 3 linear focus points (with ECF).
I purchased a 10D in 2003 that had 9 linear focus points. Don't think it had f2.8 precision.
I purchased a 5Dc in 2006 that had 1 cross type focus point, 6 assist points, and 8 linear points; 15 total.
I purchased a 40D in 2007 that had 9 cross type focus points, don't think the 30D had that.
I purchased a 5DII in 2010 that had the same AF as the 5Dc, but added contrast detect AF in live view.
I purchased a 7D in 2011 that had 19 cross type AF points with spot focusing and focus customization settings.
I don't know what Canon had in '95 but I see a definite progression in AF. And I have to say I had no complaints with my 10D's AF. I have welcomed the improvements as they've come and probably would notice if I went back.
Personally, I have no desire to see the crippled 7d AF show up in another body, even if it is better than the one-usable AF point in the 5 series.
I would phrase it quite differently, my 7D's AF is a definite improvement over my 40D's, but I would not want 7D AF in a new 5D either. The 5D's center point is more accurate than any 7D point and I think the 6 hidden assist points are better integrated and less cluttering than using adjacent points like the 7D. For a new 5D I'd like to see 5 to 7 focus points as accurate as the current 5D's center and maintain the assist points but add them to all horizontal points. Spot focusing would be great especially if they would up the light sensitivity to 1D levels. An f8 center point would also be great.
Improvement would be great, but I'm happy with my current 5Ds and wouldn't feel it a crushing loss to live with what I've got.
Jeff Nolten wrote:
Sorry MVers, just fighting hyperbole with hyperbole. These are interesting times for gear heads, lots of new stuff to think and speculate about but many are making it sound like the demise of Canon because another top rated camera manufacturer comes out with what is specified to be a top rated camera. This thread, for example, assumes that because D800 AF might be better than 7D AF that the 7D was maliciously passed of as a crippled camera. I think the OP is deserving of some serious flaming.
Bring it on Jeff..
As I said, i've never shot one, but many have complained (do your own search why don't you before acting out). Since there are so many (some?) that are dissatisfied and complained here, why bring it to another camera? I've had at least 45 point 1-series AF for a decade, and it was introduced in 1998 in the EOS 3, full retail price of $999. If my math is correct, that was 14 years ago. Not sure what you were doing then, but I was evaluating cameras to buy....
Now we're talking about a new 5 series body, and the AF is always suspect. So, since you're a hyperbolic flamer, why not tell us all why we should want the 7d AF, and not something better?
Better yet, if you can't provide something meaningful, please take my suggestion to to just leave...
update - I see that you've added a new post.
Jeff Nolten wrote:
"I would phrase it quite differently, my 7D's AF is a definite improvement over my 40D's, but I would not want 7D AF in a new 5D either. The 5D's center point is more accurate than any 7D point and I think the 6 hidden assist points are better integrated and less cluttering than using adjacent points like the 7D. For a new 5D I'd like to see 5 to 7 focus points as accurate as the current 5D's center and maintain the assist points but add them to all horizontal points. Spot focusing would be great especially if they would up the light sensitivity to 1D levels. An f8 center point would also be great....Show more →
First, I don't post or word anything to please you, nor to offend you. it is what is is.. So be it..
Moving on. The question again is why use it - as you have acknowledged - and I don't think many people would given the choice.
Hrow wrote:
James, you make the erroneous assumption that the 7D focusing is bad. In fact, it is quite good. Not 1DsMkIII good but certainly way better than any of my 3 1DMkIIIs were. Lots of people will flame me for that last comment and it is included only to illustrate that "good" and "bad" are a matter of perspective.
I don't think people want the 7D AF per se, they simply want competent AF as a baseline and then would like to move up from there. Forget the 36 MP for a moment, if Canon responds to the D800 by continuing to a pattern of limiting the AF capability of the 5D then they will pay a price in the market if that market actually values AF performance as much as it appears to on the forums. Pretty simple.
In the past, Canon guessed right and people looked past the AF because of other capabilities, price points, and the competition. All that has changed in the last few years with the biggest change coming this week. How they respond is something none of us know. If they are stupid about it then Nikon sales are going to go way up. ...Show more →
Thanks.
It may be erroneous and I'd like to clear it up. We may get it in a new body (we won't get the 1-series AF IMO), so I wonder why people want it.
I remember people complaining, including a couple of stories about people going through several bodies with AF problems. As I said, I've never shot one, but when people are saying 'at least as good as the 7d" it implied that it wasn't perfect, but it was better than the 5 series.
If it can really handle everything then there's no problem.
As much as a big improvement as the 7D AF is over the previous non 1 series rubbish, it's still far from perfect and is not as good as the 1 series and I never expected it would or should be. I would be disappointed if it were the choice of AF for a 5D III, firstly because the coverage would be too small, secondly because it still has foibles I don't like at times. It's time for Canon to stop dicking about and just put the 1D IV AF in the 5D III; they now have a new AF for their flagship 1D X, so technically they won't be putting their best AF in a non 1 series. I would also like to see the 1D IV AF updated to inlcude the best features of the 7D AF though; such as spot AF with any point, zone AF.
So am I to understand that Canon should put all the pro features including AF in their "prosumer" 5-series lineup. Wouldn't that just make them pro series cameras?
Maybe I have this wrong, but I don't think Canon set out to make any of their non-1-series cameras the pros choice. I think that the D800 looks awesome with all it's pro features, but that's what Nikon has done since moving up to full frame. Full frame for pros, crop for everyone else. Canon's 5 series started out as the first affordable full frame DSLR for non-pros and they continued the prosumer line with the mk2. Maybe the next 5 series will get an all-pro feature set, but this would mean a fundamental change to their strategy over the past. Here's hoping for change. I'd love to see the D800 features in a Canon body.
Doesn't the 7D and the 1 series have a second digic processor to handle AF and data transfer for frame rate? There is a reason the 7D is bigger and a ¼ lb heavier than its XXD predecessors. The 5D doesn't need a sports AF system if it means more weight and bulk, but it does need to accurately AF fast primes off center. Thats its job - weddings, portraits, landscapes. So, few if any more AF points are needed but all of them should be f2.8 high precision, have spot focusing, and best of all have the 1 series increased light sensitivity. I'd like to keep the hidden assist points though.
"OK, I've never owned - or shot - a 7d, so I can't speak from experience"
Then don't speak at all. Its a bit like me complaining about the latest Ferrari or Airbus when I have absolutely no experience whatsover of either.
I do own a 7D, and speaking personally I think it has really excellent AF in most circumstances. Certainly this side of a 1 series camera it offers cracking performance.
Oh that`s lame......so lame. Do you guys even think at all about what you are saying. Would you also tell me the Pinto was a great car just because it did get you where you were going. Or maybe your not old enough to even know what a Pinto was........
David Baldwin wrote:
"OK, I've never owned - or shot - a 7d, so I can't speak from experience"
Then don't speak at all. Its a bit like me complaining about the latest Ferrari or Airbus when I have absolutely no experience whatsover of either.
I do own a 7D, and speaking personally I think it has really excellent AF in most circumstances. Certainly this side of a 1 series camera it offers cracking performance.
+1
To quote my spiritual guru Jimmy Buffett "Don't try to describe the ocean if you ain't never seen it".
Pixel Perfect wrote:
As much as a big improvement as the 7D AF is over the previous non 1 series rubbish, it's still far from perfect and is not as good as the 1 series and I never expected it would or should be. I would be disappointed if it were the choice of AF for a 5D III, firstly because the coverage would be too small, secondly because it still has foibles I don't like at times. It's time for Canon to stop dicking about and just put the 1D IV AF in the 5D III; they now have a new AF for their flagship 1D X, so technically they won't be putting their best AF in a non 1 series. I would also like to see the 1D IV AF updated to inlcude the best features of the 7D AF though; such as spot AF with any point, zone AF....Show more →
+1, I think Whayne pretty much covered my thoughts here
For those that think the 7D AF is as good as a 1-series, maybe they're just not shooting stuff that's demanding enough of the AF system to see the differences. When shooting very fast/erratic targets like flying swallows, personally, I found the hit rate of both of the 7Ds I owned to be a bit frustrating (although definitely better than my 40D). I had a far higher in-focus percentage with my 1D3 (late serial), so IMO the 1-series AF is faster and more accurate in very demanding situations like that.
surf monkey wrote:
So am I to understand that Canon should put all the pro features including AF in their "prosumer" 5-series lineup. Wouldn't that just make them pro series cameras?
Maybe I have this wrong, but I don't think Canon set out to make any of their non-1-series cameras the pros choice. I think that the D800 looks awesome with all it's pro features, but that's what Nikon has done since moving up to full frame. Full frame for pros, crop for everyone else. Canon's 5 series started out as the first affordable full frame DSLR for non-pros and they continued the prosumer line with the mk2. Maybe the next 5 series will get an all-pro feature set, but this would mean a fundamental change to their strategy over the past. Here's hoping for change. I'd love to see the D800 features in a Canon body....Show more →
I think if they don`t they are going to lose a large number of long time Canon shooters. In my eyes they have been dicking around with us for more then 4 years. I am frankly tired of waiting. I have a great camera called a 1DsIII.....the only way I could afford it was to get it used......it was very used and it is wearing out from use....not just talking about it ...but taking pictures. I could probably wait a while longer with another used 1DsIII but because of another Canon move they have driven the used price up almost to the price of a new one. It would also be nice to see better live view then the old 1DsIII. So yes if they add the 7D auto focus to their new camera (what ever it is called) I will be selling my Canon stuff and moving on. It is not my child it is just a tool. I will miss the feel of Canon but I will adjust...it is just a tool. Why would you not choose the better tool.....to be faithful to a large corperation........come on..be real. Do you think they would do that for you ?.....
I dont see why some people are so fascinated with having a 1-series AF in 5D series (or having the D800-like 51 point AF). As far as I am concerned the main improvements that 5DII AF needs include better performance from the outer points and a better coverage of the frame by the AF points. The 45-point or 51-points AF's with extensive tracking support are primarily needed by action/sports photographers. However those photographers tend to go for bodies with high FPS and large buffers - neither 5D series nor D800 have that. D700 was a different story because it had the high FPS and large buffer to make it suitable for action photography. Though still most Nikon professional shooters seemed to opt for D3 or D3s over the D700 anyway. So yes as far as I am concerned, slightly more AF points (maybe 19?) which are spread out more and with faster and more accurate performance for all AF points will be good enough for me. No need to lust for the 51 points just because the kids next door have it
