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Archive 2012 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out

  
 
Jman13
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p.13 #1 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


I love how the 5D II is now mediocre. It's so mediocre it's what the official White House photographer uses to capture the history of the current presidency. You must not be able to get anything.

As you well know, the 5D II is a great camera....sure it could use better AF, but it's now a mediocre release? Just because someone else released a better camera? Yes, the D800 is almost certainly better than the 5D II in almost any measurable way....does that mean your 5D II produces worse images today than it did on Monday?



Feb 08, 2012 at 08:47 AM
ViscaB
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p.13 #2 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


yauyi wrote:
Canon need to put the crack pipe down now and stop screwing the prosumer with all these mediocre releases, as much as I love my 5D2 but man do they have a lot to learn from the other side!


Mediocre releases like the new 70-200, the TS-E 17 and the TSE-24 etc. etc.

People are massively overreacting. I guess it was the same when the D700 was released. In the end Canon came with a winning reaction. No matter how crippled some call it consumers around the globe have shown with their purchases that it was indeed very well received.



Feb 08, 2012 at 08:51 AM
kewlcanon
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p.13 #3 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


That's what so sad about Canon forum, knee jerk reaction rules.. too much of a hormone I guess .

ViscaB wrote:
Mediocre releases like the new 70-200, the TS-E 17 and the TSE-24 etc. etc.

People are massively overreacting. I guess it was the same when the D700 was released. In the end Canon came with a winning reaction. No matter how crippled some call it consumers around the globe have shown with their purchases that it was indeed very well received.




Feb 08, 2012 at 08:53 AM
cputeq
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p.13 #4 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


Actually, the 5D2 was disappointing on the AF front when it was first released...nobody believed Canon kept the same stupid AF from the 5D (even though they claim it was 'tweaked'), and I think these "knee-jerk" reactions are just bringing up old memories.

So, from day 1, you had the D700's overall competence in most-everything (low light, AF, FPS) vs the 5D2 and its more focused approach (pixels and video over AF and FPS). This ticked a lot of people off back then.

The apologists always say "focus and recompose" but for a lot of situations that just doesn't work and you need fast, reliable outer-point AF performance - something the 5D and 5D2 don't deliver. The apologists then says "Get a 1Dx series", but that's easy to essentially tell someone "hey, spend $6000 on a camera body just to get FF and decent AF performance, when Nikon gives it to you for $3000"

So yeah, I can almost understand the reaction from the Canon guys - now Nikon introduces a massive upgrade (side grade?) called the D800, which now trumps every MP count (for those who care about those things), has great video options, and is frankly a lot of camera - for $3000. They even give a no-AA filter option, which is pretty neat IMO.

But, I say "almost" because Canon hasn't released the 5D3 yet, so people maybe shouldn't be complaining so much...they did their complaining back when it was 5D2 vs D700.

Now, if Canon releases a 5D3 dud, I will understand, and might even join, the complaining. I like my 5D and it's images, and I like Canon lenses, but there are times I really wish I had a camera that could AF a bit more competently (same when I owned the 5D2).

One thing's for certain - Canon has surely been in development of the 5D3 for quite a while, so anything they release isn't going to be reactionary at all. Let's hope they heard the initial chorus of very disappointed 5D2 owners (when it came to AF and to a lesser extent, ISO/shadow performance) and hit a home run with the eventual 5D3.



Feb 08, 2012 at 09:15 AM
bobbytan
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p.13 #5 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


Ha Ha ... no one really gives a shit about the capabilities of the D800 and that is why nobody is talking about it and it's been pretty quiet and boring on the forum pages.

The 5DX or 5D III will be here soon enough ... hopefully with the 1DX AF and 30+ MP with sRAW. Thanks to Nikon, this is a very real possibility now .... as Canon has no freaking choice.

Kulig00 wrote:
Who gives a shit about all this chaos? im keeping my 5D II forever, i dont care about the af system, i just love the resolution and quality it produces.




Feb 08, 2012 at 09:19 AM
Ralph Conway
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p.13 #6 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


Jman13 wrote:
I love how the 5D II is now mediocre. It's so mediocre it's what the official White House photographer uses to capture the history of the current presidency. You must not be able to get anything.


This is just because there was nothing better out there before. Believe me, as soon D800 will be available, the white house photographer will switch. Either the camera or the president ...




Feb 08, 2012 at 10:02 AM
Jman13
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p.13 #7 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


I'm not saying the new camera won't be better....I'm saying that it doesn't invalidate your current camera. If it made really nice prints and images before a new camera came out, it will make just as nice of prints after. I don't begrudge someone documenting history like this stepping up, but I don't think it makes all the previous images mediocre.


Feb 08, 2012 at 10:21 AM
form
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p.13 #8 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


What if my camera was already invalidated in a certain way...say it doesn't focus consistently?...


Feb 08, 2012 at 10:29 AM
Ralph Conway
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p.13 #9 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


cputeq wrote:
Actually, the 5D2 was disappointing on the AF front when it was first released...nobody believed Canon kept the same stupid AF from the 5D (even though they claim it was 'tweaked'), and I think these "knee-jerk" reactions are just bringing up old memories.

So, from day 1, you had the D700's overall competence in most-everything (low light, AF, FPS) vs the 5D2 and its more focused approach (pixels and video over AF and FPS). This ticked a lot of people off back then.

The apologists always say "focus and recompose" but for a lot of situations that just doesn't work and you
...Show more

From day 1 D700 was a "we want to have something against 5D" at least. For that it was great. It was overrounded 8 weeks later, when 5D II was announced. Higher resolution instead of a generation behind, best IQ and low light capabilities (that was, why Nikon brought out the D3s) and video (what I do not use). That "crippled" Canon camera looks back on a 3 year history of a really high success, D700 can not hold on with that. Yeah, AF is better over all. It "feels" better, too. But it is still just a camera. My keapers with center AF and rearrange on weddings where higher then my collegues with that "much better AF".

I think D 800 is a phantastic camera. It just does not fit my needs again. I do not need 75% increase in pixels (or 200 % compared to its predecessor), but better IQ in high ISO.

To be honest: AF in 5D II was not what one would expect in a 2009 body. But it was working. And cameras IQ was superb at a great intro price. My formula: The more whiners , so more successfull the camera seems to be.

For $ 6000 (6800) you do NOT get a camera body with just FF and decent AF performance. You get even fom Canon the camera with FF in best IQ at highest ISO, very best AF, fastest FPS, best body and seal - just number one for 95% of shooters.
Nikon now offers (first time) a FF in a well build body with good AF, high(est) MP, but standard FPS and ISO at $ 3000/3300. That is a step ahead for consumers & pros.

D4 is a great camera that compared to 1D X looses in all categories except F 8.0 AF (what is rumored to be fixed) and price. But the $ 800 difference is nothing that makes a pro shooter really think about.

But D800 is a new yet not released camera, too. It should not be compared to Canons 3 year old top selling gear. Lets see, what Canon is going to do befor we start to whine with a cause.


Edited on Feb 08, 2012 at 10:51 AM · View previous versions



Feb 08, 2012 at 10:38 AM
Jman13
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p.13 #10 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


form wrote:
What if my camera was already invalidated in a certain way...say it doesn't focus consistently?...


I'm not talking about that stuff at all...come on.

Look, some people are really truly going to use every ounce of this camera and then some. The feature set also looks awesome...Nikon has done an amazing job with this camera at this price point. I do think they need to include an sRAW capability for full frame images, and I do think that most photographers don't need this level of resolution, but there is no doubt that some do, and that the camera as a whole is awesome.



Feb 08, 2012 at 10:50 AM
cputeq
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p.13 #11 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


Ralph Conway wrote:
From day 1 D700 was a "we want to have something against 5D" at least. For that it was great.


Yes, I agree so far


It was overrounded 8 weeks later, when 5D II was announced. Higher resolution instead of a generation behind, best IQ and low light capabilities (that was, why Nikon brought out the D3s) and video (what I do not use).


Here I disagree. "Best IQ" is very debatable - D700 has lower resolution, but also has better noise performance (not counting downsampling of 5D2, which almost negates the resolution advantage) and much better behavior when raising shadows in post.

Likewise, D700 is a better low-light performer, especially when you start counting outer points, whereas 5D2 is perma-stuck using center point in anything but good light.


That "crippled" Canon camera looks back on a 3 year history of a really high success, D700 can not hold on with that.


I disagree with the 2nd part of that statement - The D700 certainly can look back at a very strong history and loyal following. Hell, it's probably the single reason for so many Canon to Nikon defections.

I prowl several different forums, both Canon and Nikon (and Sony, and Pentax, and...) and I can say the stories of a Canon defector "seeing the light" and getting a D700 vastly outnumber those Nikon defectors coming the other way. Granted what I said is only anecdotal, but to say the D700 wasn't a success is sheer naivety or just not accepting reality. Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant.




Yeah, AF is better over all. It "feels" better, too. But it is still just a camera. My keapers with center AF and rearrange on weddings where higher then my collegues with that "much better AF".


Well yeah, I could have more keepers with my 5D than my wife could with a D700...C'mon, we can't compare the performance of two different cameras using different photographers!


To be honest: AF in 5D II was not what one would expect in a 2009 body. But it was working. And cameras IQ was superb at a great intro price. My formula: The more whiners , so more successfull the camera seems to be.


Yes, nobody doubts the 5D and 5D2 are great cameras, but if they only had more competent AF, they would be amazing cameras. Perhaps the D800 will be hitting this status? I'm curious to see how it performs in higher ISO scenarios, and I admit I'm disappointed in the lack of a smaller RAW option.







Feb 08, 2012 at 11:13 AM
diamondsdr47
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p.13 #12 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


Both companies doing the "right" equipment and great marketing so far, remember intel incremental increase 200,233,266mhz and of course amd vs intel


Feb 08, 2012 at 11:17 AM
rsg_1
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p.13 #13 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


In my opinion, Nikon does not have the lenses to take full advantage of the D800's 36 MP resolution. Many Canon lenses, not all, have been proven to work beautifully on the 7D and 5DMkII.


Feb 08, 2012 at 11:27 AM
Ralph Conway
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p.13 #14 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


To answer that is difficult in your post.

Here I disagree. "Best IQ" is very debatable - D700 has lower resolution, but also has better noise performance (not counting downsampling of 5D2, which almost negates the resolution advantage) and much better behavior when raising shadows in post.

Why NOT? This is very important for any photographer, imo. If D700 is better on pixels for half a stop, but not after downsizing, 5D II is the better choice.

Likewise, D700 is a better low-light performer, especially when you start counting outer points, whereas 5D2 is perma-stuck using center point in anything but good light.


I used it in badest light, it was working. If not, I was not able to focus manual. There was nothing to focus upon. I am not sure if D700 would have done.

I disagree with the 2nd part of that statement - The D700 certainly can look back at a very strong history and loyal following. Hell, it's probably the single reason for so many Canon to Nikon defections.

Probably? It surely is for hobby shooters. 12MP was enough for them. I did not compare 5D II to a consumer camera but to 1Ds MK III and D3X. Both where outburned by 5D II in IQ (last in ISO above 1600). But point is there are so many Nikon shooters switching to Canon because of D5 MK II and the lense offers.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant.

I think so.

Well yeah, I could have more keepers with my 5D than my wife could with a D700...C'mon, we can't compare the performance of two different cameras using different photographers!

What does that mean? That everybody has to learn to use his/her geras capabilities.

Yes, nobody doubts the 5D and 5D2 are great cameras, but if they only had more competent AF, they would be amazing cameras. Perhaps the D800 will be hitting this status? I'm curious to see how it performs in higher ISO scenarios, and I admit I'm disappointed in the lack of a smaller RAW option.

First of those two cameras made Nikon decide to kill "D3" and use it´s technologie in a competitive consumer body and the second at least forces them to create the D800 to be able to fight back. They are not giving away pro AF and pro IQ because they like to and destroy their own pro lines. They did it, because of 5D/5D II they where forced to and the consumer market in sales is much more important then the pro markets are. Those are for companies like Nikon and Canon just marketing. "If "pros" shoot with our gear, it´s good enough for you, too!"
Now Nikon is head up in the competition (on paper) with D800. We will see if and how Canons answer(s) looks like.

Ralph



Feb 08, 2012 at 12:18 PM
zhangyue
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p.13 #15 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


rsg_1 wrote:
In my opinion, Nikon does not have the lenses to take full advantage of the D800's 36 MP resolution. Many Canon lenses, not all, have been proven to work beautifully on the 7D and 5DMkII.


"Your opinion"?? :-) Based on what?



Feb 08, 2012 at 04:13 PM
eskimochaos
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p.13 #16 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


Pre ordered. If I don't like it I can just return it.


Feb 08, 2012 at 04:52 PM
Ralph Conway
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p.13 #17 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


eskimochaos wrote:
Pre ordered. If I don't like it I can just return it.



I am sure, you will like it!



Feb 08, 2012 at 04:59 PM
thw2
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p.13 #18 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


The latest word from Canonrumors:

"I will say I have heard there will be a very high megapixel camera some time in 2012, possibly in the 40mp range and it won’t be the “5D Mark III”."



Feb 08, 2012 at 05:05 PM
kewlcanon
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p.13 #19 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


Now I'm going to complain like those MP-whores...

f*ck f*ck Canon st*pid...I don't need stinkin 40MP gimme 20MP.

thw2 wrote:
The latest word from Canonrumors:

"I will say I have heard there will be a very high megapixel camera some time in 2012, possibly in the 40mp range and it won’t be the “5D Mark III”."




Feb 08, 2012 at 05:08 PM
eskimochaos
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p.13 #20 · D800, 36mp, af at F8, ect, press release out


Ralph Conway wrote:

I am sure, you will like it!


First time on the Nikon interface so we'll see. Even if I just use it and their 14-24.



Feb 08, 2012 at 05:08 PM
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