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	Username   Password   Pre-order Rokinon 16mm f/2 ED AS UMC   Pre-order new Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 DC HSM lens   Bower 35mm f/1.4 price dropped to $379 FM Forums | Photo Critique | Join Upload & Sell    end    Archive 2012 · Miller Time

Skarkowtsky Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #1 · Miller Time I realized yesterday when I unpacked my gear that in my move to my new apt I lost my scrims! Not too happy about the blown out background snow. Still, I'll use this as a secondary image in a larger series. About 4 hours of styling, another hour to light. Feb 06, 2012 at 06:00 PM

RustyBug Online • • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #2 · Miller Time Diggin the info @ styling time and lighting time involved. Sorry to hear about the scrims .... always a fan of your stuff. Took a stab at it ... I tried to bring out the snow and tone down the bottle cap on the right ... thinking that it was competing a bit with the main bottle label. I probably need to re-adust the beer in the bottle, as it might be a touch dark for a proper product rendition, but hopefully you get the gist of the snow & bottle cap. Sharpened some, but I'm sure the softness is just due to the resize (i.e. not reflective of your original). Edited on Feb 06, 2012 at 07:11 PM · View previous versions Feb 06, 2012 at 07:05 PM

Skarkowtsky Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #3 · Miller Time Hey Rusty. Thats way too dark (the beer), haha. Looks like a competitors beer! I actually got my caps and label to match the Miller bottle, just wanted to retain top edge background a bit more. I do like your snow. Yeah, I didn't budget for new scrims this month, a total waste of money this time around! What's new? Feb 06, 2012 at 07:08 PM

RustyBug Online • • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #4 · Miller Time Yeah, I know @ the dark beer ... but for 10-15 minutes worth of work, it's a start. I'll see if I can pull it down to a more "champagne" rendering. ... more of your beer & caps, my snow & label (aren't layers a wonderful thing) ... any hope for a 'country boy' in the "Big Apple" Personally, I'm an MGD fan ... which I enjoyed as I watched the Giants take care of the "Pats"ies ... I'm sure it was party in NY last night. Not much going on out this way ... just looking forward to the Ansel Exhibit that is coming to town in a couple weeks. Feb 06, 2012 at 07:13 PM

Skarkowtsky Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #5 · Miller Time Nice! Do you know if the Adams show has a stop in NYC? Feb 07, 2012 at 03:51 PM

RustyBug Online • • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #6 · Miller Time Not sure about other venue's, but I can check with the museum to see what they know if I get over there later this week. Feb 07, 2012 at 07:34 PM

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cgardner Offline • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #7 · Miller Time Your shot has an overall warm bias as seen by comparison below with my edit in which I cloned in the blown highlights in the snow and selectively over-sharpened the ice to add sparkle. It was when doing a final tweek of the tonal range I noticed the warm cast. I duped it, applied a cool filter then used a mask to knock out the bottles and caps to keep them warm... The blue bias in the snow may be a bit too strong but I think a cool / warm contrast will make the product stand out more. To fix the blown areas better you might consider shooting some similar ice lit from a similar angle with correct exposure and making it it. Do you check the clipping warning while shooting? Feb 07, 2012 at 10:04 PM

AuntiPode Offline • • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #8 · Miller Time I quite like the layout, although the observation that the color balance is too warm is spot-on. It works against the theme of ice cold. At a guess, if I were a Miller art director I'd probably also want the label on the bottle more clear and distinct. Feb 07, 2012 at 10:11 PM

Skarkowtsky Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #9 · Miller Time I like what you've done, Chuck. I think the blue is a bit too cool, but I do agree about the contrast. I gave up checking clip warnings because I unfortunately didn't have a physical way to knock the snow down a stop--lost my scrims. Instead, I exposed for the label and beer, as best I could, without the proper modifiers. This will most likely undergo post-work, and be used as a secondary shot in a larger series. Or, if I'm up to it, a reshoot (same composition) when I purchase new scrims next week. Edit: Thanks Pode, you responded as I was still typing. I'm viewing it at work (uncalibrated), and it is much warmer than on the display at my studio. With that, I'm calibrated there. Feb 07, 2012 at 10:16 PM

RustyBug Online • • • • • Upload & Sell: On p.1 #10 · Miller Time For comp ... OP>Chuck's>Mine (revised) To me Chuck's looks more cyan than blue. I think the lighting coming off all the bottles is going to warm things up a bit naturally. Maybe you could shoot it as a composite ... two for the ice by itself (before and after, one with products. Very similar to the mixed lighitng scenario of direct sun and overhead sky, where you've got two different colors of light overlapping to make at least three different colors in the higlights vs. shadows ... i.e. pull on one, you push on the others. For me, the label needs to be neutral and if that leaves the ice a bit warm from the golden color of the light reflecting and refracting through the beer ... the ice isn't the product that we are trying to draw the eye of the viewer to, it's the name (and product) that we want to make sure they are drawn ... ideally, neutral at both label and ice, but if I gotta choose/lean one way or the other ... I'm going with the product, not the background. Given the product's stong indentity with it's color (i.e. champagne) ... blue ice might be cool theme wise, but I want to push them toward the product (i.e. label/beer), not pull them to a competing cool element elsewhere ... highly subjective ... i.e. "What's the point?" / "Where do I want my viewer to go?" My .02 Feb 07, 2012 at 10:46 PM

cgardner Offline • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #11 · Miller Time If not dissecting photo cause and effect in C&C, except by side-by-side comparison I suspect few viewers seeing the photos individually would notice the color of the ice on a conscious level because their brains will be too busy processing the information on the bottles and caps. That's pretty much the case in any photo with a compelling foreground object; the brain tunes out the background because the eyes only focus on and process color information via the cone cells in the center 2° of the FOV around the optic nerve. The reaction to any warm / cool color contrast will be a subliminal one which modifies the impression of the environment the bottles are it. That's really what lighting ratios do on a cause and effect perceptual level also. Putting the same pattern on a face but changing the ratio from 2:1 (lighter than normal shadows) to 4:1 (darker than normal shadows) doesn't change the impression of the 3D of the face significantly tells the viewer that the environment the face is in isn't "normal" compared the the baseline of how things are lit contrast-wise most of the time. With regard to color you need keep in mind that the brain is always in AWB mode, trying to make things it recognizes like white shirts or Miller High Life bottle labels seem neutral. That's why the warm cast in the original in the ice isn't easy to see. The white label has the same warm bias. When your brain tries "normalize" the known white label when viewing the image the ice also seems more normal. My intention in taking the background cooler was to make not seem neutral / normal but to make it seem as cold as the ice floe the Coke Polar Bears live on. In other words I wanted the viewer to notice it wasn't neutral creating a "Chilly" subliminal reaction to the color contrast. As for blue vs. cyan, cool shadows in open shade are more cyan than navy blue. The subliminal effects of color are understood by the designers of the packaging (and cinematographers) who use color clues to convey mood and environment in every product or movie scene. There's not a cool toned hue anywhere on the product, the colors are all neutral or warm / gold. That's no accident, nor is the clear bottle. They are all planned to convey the impression that Miller is the "The Champagne of Beers" and you are living the "High Life" on a beer budget by drinking it. It's more difficult to use color to set mood and environment subliminally in close up still photos because absent background context in the photo such as long sideways shadows of afternoon sun we expect the content to look "normal" color-wise. As with lighting ratio on a head shot on a white background what happens it a shot like this is that any "abnormal" color clues tell the viewer what the unseen context is: that the Coke bear is on ice floe in the Arctic Circle and the beer is in a tub of ice, not a tub of soapy water. The ice does looks more similar to soap suds than ice many areas of the shot because the grains are so small and they melted and and lost their angular faceted shape during the photo session. That why in product shots "stunt double" stand-ins are used for setting up the lights while the star of the show chills out, quite literally in a tub of ice int the freezer until everything is set up and ready for the final shot. Feb 08, 2012 at 12:52 PM

Skarkowtsky Offline • • • Upload & Sell: Off p.1 #12 · Miller Time None of the ice is real. And it only separated because it was shifted around for hours. When first applied, and not moved around all the time, the 'snow' looks unbelievably real. Like I said, the ice tones on my calibrated display are cooler, and I probably subconsciously warmed them up to appear balanced on that screen. Conversely, on other displays, the image comes across too warm. This is my biggest problem with calibration: striking that balance for anyone who views it. I've already decided to reshoot this one next week. Other than basic combinations on my Speedo pack, I couldn't really control ratios on this one without my proper tools. I will be purchasing them next week. Hang tight, and I'll re-post the proper photograph. I knew where the problems were with this image, bu was just so excited to be shooting again that I posted it, problems and all. Thanks! Feb 08, 2012 at 01:41 PM

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