Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

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Archive 2012 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

skibum5
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p.5 #1 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

kewlcanon wrote:
Man you complain too much, can you just join the darkside, go to the other forum and wreck havoc there please ?

.

skibum5 wrote:

and canon also didn't gain huge share and even lost ground in some areas

and 5d2 also got nabbed by tons of video only buyers

and this time around canon have no high MP + video to fall back on

ok you can't go overboard but OTOH look at the companies who fall into king of the hill and milk current product line for every last fraction of an ounce and compare to companies that try to jump ahead

anyway whatever

if all canon sees is canon people going yay! they added .2MP and .2 fps and 1 AF point and posting yay! all over the forums and buying two copies each then that is what we will get and what they think we maybe even wanted

we will see what the 5D3 turns out to be whether they pay any attention or not, if it's a weak offering then all the whining is pointless

anyway i'm willing to whine and be hated on forums if a few seconds here and there and then others doing the same and so on somehow gets us an extra fps or two or what not, heck you'll probably be happy then too

if it's this sort of thread, where the title makes it pretty clear what you are in for if you read it, i'll be blunt and call it as I see it

if some specs are tossed out to CR by marketing to see how well the might sit, what good does it do us to just say yay to any spec hinted at?

if people start whining about banding all over the forums and the next cams from canon end up with low ISO DR to match sony/nikon you just might be glad you had to deal with all the whining and over the top griping

Feb 05, 2012 at 04:49 AM

RobDickinson
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p.5 #2 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

If the OP is correct with the D800 specs, and if it can match the D7000 in terms of dynamic range and IQ then I think canon will be hard pushed to match it.

If they dont come close I may consider switching. Moving from from to FF is already such a move this wont hurt me that much anyhow.

Feb 05, 2012 at 05:08 AM

kewlcanon
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p.5 #3 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

skibum5 wrote:

if all canon sees is canon people going yay! they added .2MP and .2 fps and 1 AF point and posting yay! all over the forums and buying two copies each then that is what we will get and what they think we maybe even wanted

My camera has 51 AF points. Rather than complaining, I'd gone and bought Nikon gear.

we will see what the 5D3 turns out to be whether they pay any attention or not, if it's a weak offering then all the whining is pointless

Not sure what you want ? 36MP ?. Do you think Canon needs to be the best in all categories ?. 40MP, 100 AF points, 20 fps ? Not possible.

anyway i'm willing to whine and be hated on forums if a few seconds here and there and then others doing the same and so on somehow gets us an extra fps or two or what not, heck you'll probably be happy then too

if it's this sort of thread, where the title makes it pretty clear what you are in for if you read it, i'll be blunt and call it as I see it

if some specs are tossed out to CR by marketing to see how well the might sit, what good does it do us to just say yay to any spec hinted at?

if people start whining about banding all over the forums and the next cams from canon end up with low ISO DR to match sony/nikon you just might be glad you had to deal with all the whining and over the top griping

As I've said, why not try Nikon or Sony ? See what's on the other side.

Feb 05, 2012 at 05:10 AM

chez
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p.5 #4 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

skibum5 wrote:
kewlcanon wrote:
Man you complain too much, can you just join the darkside, go to the other forum and wreck havoc there please ?

Feb 05, 2012 at 05:30 AM

molson
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p.5 #5 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

RobDickinson wrote:
If the OP is correct with the D800 specs, and if it can match the D7000 in terms of dynamic range and IQ then I think canon will be hard pushed to match it.

I sure hope not... that would mean a big step backwards from the current Canon cameras.

Feb 05, 2012 at 05:38 AM

skibum5
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p.5 #6 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

chez wrote:

I guess you are assuming Canon actually reads FM. That is a big assumption. I think Canon has a long range strategy they are working. Some whining on an Internet forum most likely will not affect this long range strategy.

probably not although perhaps, if a fair amount on all forums, and especially if it transfers over into Japanese forums and some major blogs and sales are different and in different ways than they expected, a lot of ifs, anyway if they come out with like 18MP, 4fps, 7D minus AF then it will be time to give up talking the forums since they will obviously do what they will do unless sales go off an absolute cliff

Feb 05, 2012 at 08:13 AM

skibum5
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p.5 #7 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

molson wrote:
RobDickinson wrote:
If the OP is correct with the D800 specs, and if it can match the D7000 in terms of dynamic range and IQ then I think canon will be hard pushed to match it.

I sure hope not... that would mean a big step backwards from the current Canon cameras.

?
why would you not want the new canons to have deep low iso shadows like D7000

Feb 05, 2012 at 08:14 AM

nikt
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p.5 #8 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

Chumma wrote:
Canon may fail?

Canon is 4.3 times bigger than Nikon in terms of total revenue and 3.2 times bigger in terms of total assets.

And 16.9 times bigger in every other aspect.

Feb 05, 2012 at 08:37 AM

Ralph Conway
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p.5 #9 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

Just a thought:

Next to all those "Canon fails, Nikon does it" threads. Wich Canon DSLR in the past 10 years was no success?

People cried when XXXX came - as far I speculate, a huge success.
People cried all time about XXX cameras. - they are a great success.
People whined about nearly every XX model before and after their releases - All I owned or worked with (D60, 30D, 50D) where imo a great success, D40 was too, D60 is, or not?

The 1 series made them leader/coleader in the pro segment. As far I remember there was one issue one time (1D III AF) where they caused problems. An accident that could have happend to any manufacturer. They solved it, but the product was hit, so they brought a follow up earlier than usual. It was again a success. They merged the lines and instead of two different models they now offer the best all in one (after specs) camera existing, giving the whiners all they ever wished and again more causes to cry (res and F 8.0 AF). You know wha will happen? I guess it will become the most successful Pro body ever.

The other X series (5D): an unbelievable success. And even against all odds (with a stone aged AF enhancement, features "crippled" all over) the 5D II became an even bigger one.

I do not know about 7D. But even if it is a total looser (what I think it is not) at least I just can see a long long row of success in the Canon lineup.

I saw the numbers from japan DSLR sales somewhere last month. As far I remember Canon and Nikon shared about 95% of the total - letting a 5% rest to all other competitors. And Canon was 50 st. to Nikons 45.

It does not look to me that their Marketing and their gear fails in the past.
That Nikon now brings a new FF body with higher MP is good for Nikonians.
Till today they could only choose between 12MP and 24 (and I guess you know at wich price level).

Ralph

Feb 05, 2012 at 09:49 AM

bridow
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p.5 #10 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

*yawn*

I remember everyone complaining how the 5D2 wasn't much of an upgrade without the weather proofing, AF, and fps. I'm sure Canon is crying that they only sold a few bodies...

Feb 05, 2012 at 10:28 AM

Ralph Conway
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p.5 #11 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

That is my fear: In the past we showed them the less they gave us so more we cried, so more successful their gear was sold! I imagine a discussion between Technichians, marketing and head(s) of Canon could run like that:

HEAD: "What can we give them?"

TECHNICIAN: "32 MP at ISO 200K as clean as a baby child smells, best AF ever at 200 doble crossed, tripple as sensitive complete eye controled with auto recognition of eye glases and dioptre, 22 FPS, broadcast video including in body cutting options ..."

MARKETING: "Stop! Stop! Stop! That is all to much! Despite they would not know to use it, we still need some of that stuff for 2024 regarding to our long terme plan. And all that features explained on our website would cause a huge amount of more traffic. That is to expensive!"

TECHNICIAN: "But ... we could make happy all that whiners!"

MARKETING: "That is impossible. They will never stop crying! It does not matter, what we give them. It´s not a question of ...""

TECHNICIAN: "But ..."

HEAD (rases his arm to stop him and nodds to marketing): "Go ehead, please!"

MARKETING: "After that great advertising campain we sold millions of bodys of that old stuff. When we had to refresh it, because to much of those old parts where not longer available, we crippled down the last generation body we had in the wardrobe. And sold it like hell!"

HEAD (is nodding and turns to the technician): "Okay, I have done a decision. reduce all the specs of that two generation back body, you showed me last year. Paint it black. And lets give it a new name. Like we did with that just announced "Pro" body. You remember?"

MARKETING (after leaving a relieved breath): "Excellent, boss! We could call it ... 5D ... III? ... or something else like that."

TECHNICIAN (moans an not definable sound): " ... sgh ... "

MARKETING: "What was that? Was it a "X"? Yes! That´s it! "X" sounds great!"

The text above is a pure fiction! But when I believe so many posters here, it seems to be nearer to reality than any new rumor about a new camera.

Have a great sunday.

Ralph

Feb 05, 2012 at 12:33 PM

alundeb
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p.5 #12 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

MARKETING: For the next generation camera, we need to say that the ISO is 3 stops better.

TECHNICIAN: That is not possible because of the laws of physics. The best we could come up with is 2/3 stops, but that would require new and very expensive production equipment.

HEAD: Forget about expensive production. The technicians need to solve this and make up some processing algorithms that make the images look clean. And marketing must keep saying that everything is better.

Feb 05, 2012 at 12:43 PM

Ralph Conway
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p.5 #13 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

HEAD to Marketing: "And do not forget to give that african guy our new dummy prototype with that working display. We need some more rumors. You are allowed to feed them with unbelievable specs. So more unhappy the folks is with our new gear, so more people will try to find out about and will realize it is anyway better than what we sold them the last time. In the past that was one of our most successful marketing strategies!"

Feb 05, 2012 at 01:15 PM

jcolwell
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p.5 #14 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

alundeb wrote:
MARKETING: For the next generation camera, we need to say that the ISO is 3 stops better.

TECHNICIAN: That is not possible because of the laws of physics. The best we could come up with is 2/3 stops, but that would require new and very expensive production equipment.

HEAD: Forget about expensive production. The technicians need to solve this and make up some processing algorithms that make the images look clean. And marketing must keep saying that everything is better.

You should always cite your sources:

Adams, S., "Dogbert's top secret management handbook", Harper Collins, New York, 1996.

Feb 05, 2012 at 01:25 PM

Bruce Sawle
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p.5 #15 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

Ralph Conway wrote:
That is my fear: In the past we showed them the less they gave us so more we cried, so more successful their gear was sold! I imagine a discussion between Technichians, marketing and head(s) of Canon could run like that:

HEAD: "What can we give them?"

TECHNICIAN: "32 MP at ISO 200K as clean as a baby child smells, best AF ever at 200 doble crossed, tripple as sensitive complete eye controled with auto recognition of eye glases and dioptre, 22 FPS, broadcast video including in body cutting options ..."

MARKETING: "Stop! Stop! Stop! That is all to much! Despite they would not know to use it, we still need some of that stuff for 2024 regarding to our long terme plan. And all that features explained on our website would cause a huge amount of more traffic. That is to expensive!"

TECHNICIAN: "But ... we could make happy all that whiners!"

MARKETING: "That is impossible. They will never stop crying! It does not matter, what we give them. It´s not a question of ...""

TECHNICIAN: "But ..."

HEAD (rases his arm to stop him and nodds to marketing): "Go ehead, please!"

MARKETING: "After that great advertising campain we sold millions of bodys of that old stuff. When we had to refresh it, because to much of those old parts where not longer available, we crippled down the last generation body we had in the wardrobe. And sold it like hell!"

HEAD (is nodding and turns to the technician): "Okay, I have done a decision. reduce all the specs of that two generation back body, you showed me last year. Paint it black. And lets give it a new name. Like we did with that just announced "Pro" body. You remember?"

MARKETING (after leaving a relieved breath): "Excellent, boss! We could call it ... 5D ... III? ... or something else like that."

TECHNICIAN (moans an not definable sound): " ... sgh ... "

MARKETING: "What was that? Was it a "X"? Yes! That´s it! "X" sounds great!"

The text above is a pure fiction! But when I believe so many posters here, it seems to be nearer to reality than any new rumor about a new camera.

Have a great sunday.

Ralph

Ralph always a pleasure to read your post. One of the most entertaining post I have read in a long time.

Feb 05, 2012 at 03:03 PM

ct8282
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p.5 #16 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

davenfl wrote:
Free to purchase whatever you like. However, there is no need to announce your change, I could care less, but thanks for letting us know. I am certain Canon is quite upset at your announcement of their impending failure.

Dave

Please, for the love of God, it's 'I couldn't care less'. Surely you can see the irony in saying 'I could care less' when you are trying to imply that you really don't care.

Feb 05, 2012 at 03:58 PM

Schlotkins
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p.5 #17 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

Well, for me personally, I'd rather have about 24mp. I just don't print things big enough to deal with 36 mpx. Plus, I don't think the lack of AA is going to be a free lunch when it comes to imagine quality... perhaps for some circumstances, but I guess we'll see. (And, on an aside as a wildlife guy, I'd rather have a 600 f4 that weighs 8.65 pounds instead of 11.1, but hey, that's me and why there are choices for consumers.)

I do hope in the new 5D they put in a better AF system. If these specs are true, then maybe it's true that Canon is putting the new 61 point AF in the new 5D. Perhaps they'll put the now defunct 45 point 1D Mark IV system in there. The bottom line is I am certain that canon, now seeing Nikon's cards, is not going to be stupid. They have plenty of AF systems that are better than the POS system in there now and that would be an upgrade.

But, as they say, we'll see. I'm not moving to Nikon and to be frank, my equipment is already better than me.

Chris

Feb 05, 2012 at 04:25 PM

gdanmitchell
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p.5 #18 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

jcolwell wrote:
Richard Nye wrote:
A 36mp sensor would seriously challenge the current lens performance.

Did you ever wonder why Canon is making Mark II versions of many of its very best lenses?

No. ;-)

On another topic...

Since the word "revolutionary" seems to be coming up a lot in this thread... It is, almost by definition, impossible for a new "version" of something to be "revolutionary." I think that "evolutionary" is more of what we are looking for - keeping the good features, improving things where possible and desirable, and adding a few new ones as appropriate.

Anyone who reads my posts knows that I think the 5D2 is a great performer and that I can produce photographic prints of high quality using this camera. But I can think of ways that Canon could make it even better (without suggesting that a 5-series camera should be a 1-series camera), including some of those mentioned here. (As others have mentioned, there are clearly ways that Canon could improve the AF system by incorporating features found in more recent cameras.)

FWIW, I tend to think that that Canon will have little choice but to introduce some camera with a larger number of photo sites. While some of the mythical specs for the rumored "5D3" suggest virtually the same image dimensions as on the 5D2, and offer some reasons for this, in a world with competing cameras with 30+ MP, that will be a difficult marketing position to maintain. That said, there are other ways that Canon could address this concern besides offering a higher pixel-count "5D3."

We'll see.

By the way, "revolutionary" or close to it changes would be things like a new sensor format, some radical departure from the traditional SLR-based design, a new sensor technology, etc. I don't have any proof that any of these are about to occur.

Dan

Feb 05, 2012 at 04:26 PM

RobsonF
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p.5 #19 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

nikt wrote:
Chumma wrote:
Canon may fail?

Canon is 4.3 times bigger than Nikon in terms of total revenue and 3.2 times bigger in terms of total assets.

And 16.9 times bigger in every other aspect.

lol well done

Feb 05, 2012 at 05:13 PM

bobbytan
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p.5 #20 · Thanks Nikon, Canon may fail big

The D800 is looking like a phenomenal body ... possibly even better than the D4:

http://www.silentjournalist.org/news/pre-release-official-nikon-d800d800e-details.html

Canon .... are you paying close attention?

Feb 05, 2012 at 06:22 PM

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