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Archive 2012 · Going back to full frame
  
 
surf monkey
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p.2 #1 · Going back to full frame


kakomu wrote:
Tokina 12-24 vs. Canon 17-40, plus any consumer zoom out there.


Isn't that a $100 difference. APS-C lenses aren't really that much cheaper than full frame unless you're talking about the cheap zooms like the typical 18-55 or 55-200 lenses.

Besides the perceived "reach" advantage, I don't really see a reason to choose APS-C over full frame.
- It might help with cropping of not so good corners on weaker lenses.
- The cameras themselves are cheaper.
- Smaller, lighter cams and lenses. I like the feel of a large DSLR myself.

It terms of specific camera differences, that have less to do with sensor size and more to do with newer tech, there are a lot of choices. For instance, I choose to add a 7D to my 5D2 for more reach and better AF. When those are unnecessary I always pickup the 5D2.
In terms of pure image IQ it's tough to beat the value of the old 5D.



Feb 02, 2012 at 07:39 PM
kakomu
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p.2 #2 · Going back to full frame


surf monkey wrote:
Isn't that a $100 difference. APS-C lenses aren't really that much cheaper than full frame unless you're talking about the cheap zooms like the typical 18-55 or 55-200 lenses.


No, It was at least $200 at the time (I bought my 12-24 for far less than it's sold now), if not more between the 12-24 and 17-40. Plus the 12-24 feels smaller than the 17-40.

As far as zooms are concerned, save for a few old designs (75-300 or 100-300), Canon has discontinued all of their non-L zooms. So, if I want a zoom, I'll either need to go discontinued or shell out a lot of cash for an L-series zoom. I'm not rich nor make tons of money so I cannot reconcile the cost of expensive lenses.

Moreover, the 18-55 IS tends to get far more accolades than the older zooms of similar ilk, e.g. the 28-80, 28-90 or 35-90 zooms. Same goes for the 55-250 vs any consumer zoom of similar range for full frame cameras. Moreover, even the more expensive APS-C zooms from Canon like the 15-85 or 17-55 tend to be less expensive than the full frame zooms with similar ranges (such as the 24-105 or 24-70 lenses).

surf monkey wrote:
Besides the perceived "reach" advantage, I don't really see a reason to choose APS-C over full frame.


There were several reasons I chose a 60D and sold my 5D, besides economics:
- Electronic Sensor cleaning
- ISO 6400
- High quality high ISO picture
- Swivel Screen
- Live View
- Video

Would I have preferred a 60D over a 5D2? Probably not, but I can't afford a 5D2.



Feb 02, 2012 at 09:14 PM
atroester
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p.2 #3 · Going back to full frame


I was on crop-bodies since the original digital rebel series (just before the Txi's). Used basic lenses and the nifty-fifty all through college and my bodies went like this: Rebel T1i > T2i > T3i > 7D then added 5Dc > traded 5Dc for 5D2 > sold my 7D and I'm on the 5D2 and I won't give it up!

Full-frame IQ, IMHO, blows APS-C out of the water. I had Canon's top of the line APS-C (7D) and the 5Dc and I wanted to pick up that older, full-frame camera every time unless I wanted video! If video isn't necessary, I would definitely go back to the 5Dc IF you want better all around photos. What a difference the full-frame does with a lens, too.




Feb 02, 2012 at 09:41 PM
surf monkey
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p.2 #4 · Going back to full frame


kakomu wrote:
There were several reasons I chose a 60D and sold my 5D, besides economics:
- Electronic Sensor cleaning
- ISO 6400
- High quality high ISO picture
- Swivel Screen
- Live View
- Video

Would I have preferred a 60D over a 5D2? Probably not, but I can't afford a 5D2.


For you, those might be all very important points.
For me, live view would be the only one that makes a real difference.

I think one of the most talked about IQ discussion on FM is the high ISO IQ of the newer high density APS-C sensors like the ones on the 60D and 7D vs older models like the 5D and 40D. Many prefer the files out of their older models in terms of IQ, but like the new tech features which may not affect IQ as much as they allow you to "get the shot" in more situations. And I don't know too many that shoot any DSLR at 6400 ISO very often. I think it really depends on what your shooting needs are. Lots of low light indoor, action shots would point to new tech. Landscape, portrait and studio shots may get better IQ from the low tech 5D (although live view is really useful).

I think my main point of cost differences really was about the smallish difference between buying one wide angle lens vs the higher cost of changing from full frame to crop back to full frame. The later seems like a much more expensive proposition.

For what it's worth, I would do as others suggest and stay with your current gear unless there is something in that gear that's not working for you.



Feb 02, 2012 at 10:00 PM
surf monkey
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p.2 #5 · Going back to full frame


You might want to give us your current gear setup and what you would like to change to.
That would make it easier to determine which side really is greener.



Feb 02, 2012 at 10:03 PM
Ghost
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p.2 #6 · Going back to full frame


Dustin Gent wrote:
?? Isn't the 5D and the 1Ds2 the same age? I guess my 1Ds needs to be thrown into the garbage


Actually the 5d is newer than the 1ds2.



Feb 02, 2012 at 10:25 PM
 

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surf monkey
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p.2 #7 · Going back to full frame


Ghost wrote:
Actually the 5d is newer than the 1ds2.


Both were easily the best in there class when they came out and still produce some of the best images. IQ-wise they are only held back by their ultra-high ISO performance.



Feb 02, 2012 at 10:43 PM
cputeq
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p.2 #8 · Going back to full frame


I've owned many combinations of crop and FF cameras from 5 different manufacturers - This is not a case of grass is greener.

Crop has it's place, I like crop and I don't have anything inherently against crop, but I still prefer my FF images over crop...and this is true even talking my excellent 5N's sensor vs my 5Dc's.




Feb 03, 2012 at 12:19 AM
Gunzorro
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p.2 #9 · Going back to full frame


Dustin Gent wrote:
?? Isn't the 5D and the 1Ds2 the same age? I guess my 1Ds needs to be thrown into the garbage


Ha-ha! More of my inelegant writing!

The 1Ds2 preceded the 5D by about a month in fall of 2005.

The 5D never matched the IQ of the 1Ds2, and its successor, the 5D2, has nearly double the MP/resolution, plus other important features, not the least of which is HD video and Live View.

Although the 1Ds2 has been superceded by the 1Ds3, many find it still very useful if the more high tech features are not needed. I guess anything I say in support of the 1Ds2 could be applied to the 1Ds and 5D as well. But there are noticeable differences in IQ between these cameras, in favor of the 1Ds2, which I consider makes the others somewhat outdated (but now terrific bargains). (Whew! It's tough work digging a hole! )

I had a 1Ds, but no more. That's not to say I don't admire your landscapes with the 1Ds, but it's not for me at this point.



Feb 03, 2012 at 01:46 AM
ratsnest74
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p.2 #10 · Going back to full frame


Canon must be retarded if the 1Ds is only 1 month older then the 5D, why wouldn't they put a larger LCD on the $8k camera for instance, and why the archaic button and menu system and the NiMH Batteries. Canon never puts all the features in any single camera, even the most expensive ones, whereas Nikon has got it mostly right feature wise for 7 years, even in its cheaper models.

Gunzorro wrote:
Ha-ha! More of my inelegant writing!

The 1Ds2 preceded the 5D by about a month in fall of 2005.

The 5D never matched the IQ of the 1Ds2, and its successor, the 5D2, has nearly double the MP/resolution, plus other important features, not the least of which is HD video and Live View.

Although the 1Ds2 has been superceded by the 1Ds3, many find it still very useful if the more high tech features are not needed. I guess anything I say in support of the 1Ds2 could be applied to the 1Ds and 5D as well. But there are
...Show more



Feb 03, 2012 at 02:19 AM
pkupcik
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p.2 #11 · Going back to full frame


I went from 20D to 5D to 5d II to 60D and back to 5DII. 20D to 5D was the biggest jump in IQ. I loved the 60D body. Small, light, great LCD, great button layout, built in flash and remote flash controls. I didn't like the small viewfinder and most importantly I missed the ability to use prime zeiss lenses without the crop factor. I wish there was a full frame camera with features and ergonomics of 60D, and a larger viewfinder. Both 5D and 5D II do feel like bricks. IQ of 5D is more than sufficient for me. Compared to 5D, I love 5D II mostly for the liveview and video features. I continue dreaming of a small FF body with EVF...


Feb 03, 2012 at 04:00 PM
Dustin Gent
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p.2 #12 · Going back to full frame


Gunzorro wrote:
Ha-ha! More of my inelegant writing!

The 1Ds2 preceded the 5D by about a month in fall of 2005.

The 5D never matched the IQ of the 1Ds2, and its successor, the 5D2, has nearly double the MP/resolution, plus other important features, not the least of which is HD video and Live View.

Although the 1Ds2 has been superceded by the 1Ds3, many find it still very useful if the more high tech features are not needed. I guess anything I say in support of the 1Ds2 could be applied to the 1Ds and 5D as well. But there are
...Show more


just ribbin' ya

I am hoping I can upgrade, sooner than later - although with the luck I have had with my 1Ds, I am not in a huge hurry. I wouldn't mind just keeping her until I can upgrade to the 1Ds3, as I will still have to deal with the dumb batteries..



Feb 03, 2012 at 11:12 PM
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