PM I just received from a random observer, NOT the seller:
First of all, almost every member here would not sell to a member with zero feedback because we know you're either a tire kickers or do not have the funds. Second, don't ask such stupid questions...if you must-please do so via PM. If you want a brand new one, pay "$235 on Amazon" Or, buy a used one in great shape and save $65. This is how it works hun. Are you blonde and cant help it?
Question I asked about the item for sale:
"Does the grip come with the box, manual, etc, like a new grip? Do you have any images? Looking for a box, manual, etc. Hard to buy a used one when they're only $235 on Amazon. Thanks! "
In response, I have purchased a Radio Popper PX Transmitter and two camera straps from sellers here, both at great prices. Why? Because I was bargain shopping, a.k.a., looking for a deal. Why? Because I own my own business and I cut costs where I can. If I can find an item here at a better price in decent condition I buy it. It's common sense.
Furthermore, what's wrong with asking for images? What's wrong with asking if an item comes with the original box?
I admit, I was too forward when I stated "Hard to buy a used one when they're only $235 on Amazon" but frankly, it's true. Simply put, I would like to see images of an item and know if it has a box before I decide to rule out Amazon or B&H.
Finally, the individual who sent the PM is a sexist lowlife. Look at my profile, it says my wife and I run this business. We both post on here. This "hun" is a man. This stupid blond is a guy. In fact, if my wife had written the original question it would have been much sweeter, more tactful, and less direct.
Two observations about the FM forums:
1) People here are unnecessarily cruel over very small things and they exhibit their cruelty in the most inconsequential threads. People act like jerks in discussions about printers and speedlites.
2) People here are not harsh enough when critiquing images. FM is turning into Flickr with all the "great capture" comments. I'm guilty of this too. But how ironic that someone would set me straight over a BG-E6, but when photographers are actually looking for critique they can't get an honest reaction.
You're going to ask what grounds do I have for my critique of FM? I'm just some guy who got pissed off because someone insulted me... Say what you will. It makes no difference to me, I won't be active on FM after tonight. Not that anyone on here will miss my measly 200 posts. Anyone with so few posts couldn't possibly be a REAL photographer. We all know the more posts you have the bigger your studio is, the more gear you have, the more money you make.
I think your basing your perception of 'status' and 'photo experience' on the FM boards on a few unfortunate experiences you've had, or may have witnessed. Not everyone on this site acts the way you're suggesting.
Generalizing about everyone just makes you seem dismissive and foolish. Stop looking for sympathy, man-up, ignore the morons, and participate in this site for what it is.
Oh yeah, what are you babbling about in regards to critique? The last I checked this was a free forum provided to us by a generous individual. This site isn't a photo school. If you're the studio owner you say you are, then you're work is already strong enough to make a living, right? And if you believe 'great capture' isn't sufficient advice, don't type it. Give thoughtful critique if that's what you believe they deserve.
You make generalizations that are virtually factless! Then again you do make some very valid observations.
You are dealing with personalities here and FM is not "THE" perfect website but it comes darn close!
Suggest you take a "time out" and regroup. You have been here only a short while. In time you will find the people and forums that best suit your photographic needs.
Good luck..!
Dan
Fred offers almost 2 dozen Fora here....perhaps you try and find one or two to like and become an active participant and
valued member of this great FM community. Yes, someone with THIS many posts can't be much of a photographer either
I think both John and Dan were rather kind in not ripping you a new one. My suggestion to the new and disgruntled out there...
if all else fails...relax, have a cold one, and on a clear night....spend some time studying Uranus.
On the off chance that you read and/or return here, your faux paw was to reference price new on someones sell thread.
It can be construed as price policing or thread crapping, and IS frowned upon. There's no crime in asking for pics.
That in itself is just plain rude regardless of the subject matter. Some members here take thinks so personal yet they blame others for the very same thing. Get over yourselves.
I don't know where I'd be without Fred Miranda. Coming from film, when I decided to get back into photography I stumbled upon this place, bought the bulk of my gear from members and have learned so much - too much. Sometimes I get headaches after reading some of the detailed threads/debates/and yes, arguments here. I know which members are kind and helpful and those are the ones with whom I don't fear communicating if I have a question, or whatever. I just ignore the rest. The former far outweigh the latter.
Having said that, and please do not bash me but in the past year or so I have noticed that the snark level has definitely gone up. I think the arguments about gear are pretty funny, but the nastiness really is not necessary. I think the PM the OP received was nasty and over the top.
So to the OP - take what you need, offer what you can, and ignore the meanies. There is a lot of great stuff in here.
As Will has mentioned, performing a public price comparison in someone's ad posting is not good etiquette. If you feel that something is overpriced for what it is, either send the seller a PM and inquire if the price is "firm" or open to quibbling, or just skip over the item...its really a very simple matter.
Second (and I have not seen the original ad and have no knowledge of the seller's feedback rating), but some sellers that have had quite a few transactions, and all with excellent feedback, sometimes don't see the need to post images of every single item and rely on their feedback rating to vouch for what it is they're selling. Personally, I don't have a problem with that. For instance, if Will was selling something that I wanted/needed, and he described it in glowing terms minus any pictures, I'd take his word for it and make him an offer. There are other sellers here that also fall into that category (I've even done it myself on occasion when selling). Sure, pictures are nice, but are they necessary in every instance? IMO, not really...it all depends on your level of comfort and trust as a buyer.
The Monkey says it is what it is, and it'll in fact be at least that, and highly likely as good as it gets . Several other sellers here come to mind. In those cases, it's a waste of my and their their time to ask for pictures. These guys however who have shown up over the last 3-4 months with zero feedback, or eBay feedback where all they've gotten such stellar positives has been from the sale of $10 items, or who have the freakin' gall to say "only PayPal Gift accepted," well, I just blow on by their offering.
"First of all, almost every member here would not sell to a member with zero feedback because we know you're either a tire kickers or do not have the funds. Second, don't ask such stupid questions...if you must-please do so via PM. If you want a brand new one, pay "$235 on Amazon" Or, buy a used one in great shape and save $65. This is how it works hun. Are you blonde and cant help it?"
OK guys, but are you really NOT going to admit that this PM - not even from the seller, just another FMer - is over the top rude? (And I don't know any of the parties or anything else about this particular transaction.)
Sharona I agree. Let's at least be polite. The statement made includes generalities about other FMers that are not true. I will, after talking with a new FMer, sell to them and I have been here a long time. Have done so and will do again. We all were new here at one time. I agree that an offering or questions of a personal nature should be done in a PM but that's something to be learned by the newbie so let's not be so quick to jump on them. The last part of his statement is simply insulting and has no place here or anywhere else. His breach of etiquette is worse than the OP as he has been here a while and should know better.
Sharona wrote:
I don't know where I'd be without Fred Miranda. Coming from film, when I decided to get back into photography I stumbled upon this place, bought the bulk of my gear from members and have learned so much - too much. Sometimes I get headaches after reading some of the detailed threads/debates/and yes, arguments here. I know which members are kind and helpful and those are the ones with whom I don't fear communicating if I have a question, or whatever. I just ignore the rest. The former far outweigh the latter.
Having said that, and please do not bash me but in the past year or so I have noticed that the snark level has definitely gone up. I think the arguments about gear are pretty funny, but the nastiness really is not necessary. I think the PM the OP received was nasty and over the top.
So to the OP - take what you need, offer what you can, and ignore the meanies. There is a lot of great stuff in here. ...Show more →
Not to mention, get a thicker skin...lots of a$$wipes out there, so try not to lump everyone at FM into that category (and in the future, don't take it upon yourself to be the price police...you'll either just get flamed at best, or sent more of the same type of response, at worst). And relax...FM is a great place.
Just so everyone is aware, it was my thread where the offense took place but I am NOT the individual who wrote to ohsnap regarding his thread post. I wish people would not price police in threads though and I guess it's a lesson learned for him. I don't agree with being rude however and I'm sorry if ohsnap is soured on the FM experience. I feel that this is the best Photo forum on the net and I hope he'll come back and experience this too.
Use the "HideMe" button, I've found it works great for those who only contribute "snarkiness" to this forum. To the rest of you I DON'T hide (which is the majority), Thanks for being the professional, friendly, helpful folks you are!
It is a problem on the Buy & Sell forum.....the arrogance is over the top and has kept me from even thinking about buying something because I don`t have any feed back. Tell me....How do you get feed back with out buying something 1st ?
Peter Le wrote:
It is a problem on the Buy & Sell forum.....the arrogance is over the top and has kept me from even thinking about buying something because I don`t have any feed back. Tell me....How do you get feed back with out buying something 1st ?
Peter,
While feedback is important, especially within the last few years, it is not "THE",prerequisite for a buy/sell..at least to me. If you check my feedback, I have many no feedback or maybe 1or2 feedback buys/sales.
To me the #1 criteria is COMMUNICATION!!!! I can usually tell within a few PM, emails whether this person is "for real". If the item is a "big ticket" item, I request a phone conversation.
Also if no feedback, I request a phone number and talk to the person. NEVER USE PAYPAL GIFT!! You will loose out trying to recover any monetary losses.
You have been around FM awhile and you should know many of the "regulars" so that helps. Ask the seller/buyer for a FM reference if you can.
If it doesn't sound right, it probaly isn't so move on. If it doesn't feel right do likewise.
Now another point is that recently a few sellers/buyes will NOT post feedback! I have had about 5-7 sales/buys where that person refused to post any feedback on a good sale with no problems either way. So I do not leave that person feedback either. All were FMers with allot of feedback. So "go figure"??
Just communicate with that person..all should go well...
I am sure many will "chime in" to your post now.
Dan
I am new here. Came because i am, have always been passionate about my hobby - photography. To say the least - I am shell shocked by the dealers flocking to the Buy Sell forum. I was hoping to be amongst people who shared a common pursuit. Alas, a wake up call for me.
But wait a minute, it does not matter what kind of people flock here. As long as they are paying to be here.
Fred offers almost 2 dozen Fora here....perhaps you try and find one or two to like and become an active participant and
??