is there a better way to market/sell 2nd photographers? why not have the option for a 2nd(a perceived inferior, extra perspective, newb... whatever.. at some $) and an option for something more like two 1st photographers(collaboration of equals like in the music industry, added value, more $). maybe just one or the other..
I think the only way you could really market the 2nd photographer is if they are well known/well published. Like "Pete Souza is available to photograph alongside me for $xx more."
Robin Usagani wrote:
I always include a decent 2nd on my pricing. If they start trying to bargain, that's when I take it off. I am curious what people do as well.
no doubt.. no one wants a bum shooting with them. maybe i am saying why are we advertising 2nd photographers when we can promote dual leads for more money instead of a perceived cheaper option? what are down or upsides of this approach?
I've always said this is something that can be handled based on location and local traditions/styles/needs.
That said, I live in an area where we are accustomed to brides and grooms regularly coming from out of town and looking for "just a few hours of coverage". Because we regularly get these requests, I price my packages slightly lower and have the second as an option. It's more appealing to a wider clientele from my experience. I will say that it works for me very well, and that my sales speech for adding a second when I feel a it is warranted works 99% of the time. Clients like the idea right from the start that I'm not charging for things they may not need; but those that understand the benefits are very open to my opinion of if/why their wedding may call for a second. In the last 10 weddings, my second was only skipped on one. It works for me.
So, to answer your question; show them the value of your willingness to view their costs just as they would. Showing interest from their 'cost' point of view, while maintaining your brand value and being able to stick to your prices. If you do that, you can make this approach very successful for both you and your clients.
Just to comment on the other replies, I do have many competition that add a second for "free"; and those seconds around here are usually students and uncle bobs. When I charge, I charge for a quality second shooter with experience.
jprezant wrote:
I would never think of my seconds as inferiors. In fact, many times I learn a lot from them.
agree, I only use pro seconds. 3 on my list that shoot 100% pro. They all carry big guns and lights. Use them for 2-3 hrs. Then I use an assistant after that 2-3 hrs. Pay them well. It is quid pro quo. The probability of messing up a once in a lifetime non repeatable event is lower than most imo. This is marketing imo... with the concept of lower risk for their non-repeatable event. The brides know the big guns will be there. No pip squeak cameras and lenses and light weights as the main tools
jprezant wrote:
I would never think of my seconds as inferiors. In fact, many times I learn a lot from them.
so you are saying that you take the time to communicate to the client the work and SPECIFIC value of each of your 2nd's? i'm not saying that the random 2nd is always inferior but just the fact that YOU label them a 2nd and they don't have their OWN wedding that day, does this not automatically relay to your wedding day observers that he/she is inferior in some way? i'm not talking about reality just perception.
no shit.. anyone who takes their job serious will contract sufficient talent. i'm just saying that if you make that more clear in some way to your clients we could structure relationships with other togs in a more lucrative fashion. one of the biggest problems with "pro 2nds" is the fact they do their own shit too. if you wanna secure top talent for a day a year out you would have to make their pay higher for the risk of scheduling their own wedding at a later time.
I don't believe that Jason is suggesting that he decides who, exactly, is shooting 2nd for any given wedding a year out... but rather, that anyone he hires is going to be up to the task.... then he posts on here that he's looking for a specific date as it gets closer and fills the position with someone that he deems qualified.
Dude. When I know who's going to second shoot a wedding with me, I talk about them by name to my clients. "I
say things like, while I'm hanging out will you Jillian, Mark will be tearing it up with the guys getting some crazy
awesome shots outside!"
Talking about my seconds in that way allows the clients to be totally comfortable knowing that I respect and
admire my seconds, the certainly can as well.
furthermore in answer to your questions, I only use a handful of other photographers as seconds. To name a few,
scott v and miguel s. I'm totally confident that If I fell down a hole somewhere day of, they would do a kick ass
job for me. Of course, then I'd kick myself because I'd have to buy them at least 8 happy meals to compensate them.
i try to secure seconds 2-3 months out. I don't think my clients ever think lowly of my seconds, and definitely after
meeting them, and working with them all day, each and every couple comes away loving the other people that shoot
with me, facebooking them, having children with them, errr what?
jprezant wrote:
Dude. When I know who's going to second shoot a wedding with me, I talk about them by name to my clients. "I
say things like, while I'm hanging out will you Jillian, Mark will be tearing it up with the guys getting some crazy
awesome shots outside!"
Talking about my seconds in that way allows the clients to be totally comfortable knowing that I respect and
admire my seconds, the certainly can as well.
yep,
and I add, in the unlikely event a plane lands on me on my way over to your wedding, my second is there for you, boots on the ground, and they have the confidence and experience to shoot your one time non-repeatable event on their own...
jprezant wrote:
Dude. When I know who's going to second shoot a wedding with me, I talk about them by name to my clients. "I
say things like, while I'm hanging out will you Jillian, Mark will be tearing it up with the guys getting some crazy
awesome shots outside!"
Talking about my seconds in that way allows the clients to be totally comfortable knowing that I respect and
admire my seconds, the certainly can as well.
no. you're not understanding. telling your clients that mark will be taking totally awesome images over there is much different than giving a client the opportunity to leverage your social connections in the photography world, by presenting them the opportunity to hire not just a first and a second but two firsts. just a different way of seeing the same thing i guess. price structure would definitely be different but if a buddy tells me he can get me a DEFINITE 2nd job for 1000 i would logically have to consider that option earlier than a short-notice 200 gig.
I only use seconds who can produce work that will not be clearly distinguishable from my own in any negative way. I make it clear to clients that this is very different than most 'second shooters.'
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