I have decided it is time to upgrade from my Canon 580EX flashes to better light and have decided on the Quantum line. My challenge is that I want a shoe flash and off camera flash. My choices are: two Trios that clearly can communicate easily and will have the benefit of a firmware upgrade; or a Trio and a T5D-R (add some kind of freewire device) as cost wise they seem to work out the same. The T5 has the modeling capability and more power (although some say the modeling is worthless). My first use will be for a wedding shoot involving indoors and outdoors. I might also just start with one unit.
My preference would be for a Trio and an X5d-R @400ws. But since your choice is between another Trio or a T5d-R, I'd get the extra power of the T5d-R. I use a Nikon version Trio, but you'll realise the T5d-R and X5d-R is cross compatible. The firmware upgrade for the Trio allows for adjustments in operating system for new cameras, but these are catered for too in the D adapters which will connect an X or T flash to a specific camera also.
A Trio on camera is a good choice as it negates the neccesity of any cables between the camera and flash and any radio device, so it's ideal for on camera use.
The modelling facility is useful for light placement when using grids, but otherwise I would barely use it.
Since the value of the Trio is in its flash and radio combined and the Quantum system capability is for controlling remote flashes up to 400ws in all modes the maximum advantage is obtained when combining these.
I have 2 T5d-R's in one kit and 4 X5d-R's in two other kits, I will most regularly chose one of the X5d-R kits because of the output benefit but the T5d-R kit is a little more portable because it fits a shoulder bag, so this gets taken if I'm slogging a distance with the lights.
If you shoot a lot with HSS you might find the TRIO/TRIO combination better suited to your needs.
Thanks for the response. I think I might just start with a trio and then perhaps a used T5D-R or another trio. The HSS might be an issue especially for those sunlight and other conditions.
If I go with just the trio do you know what I need to fire it remotely? Wireless and wired.
There are two versions of the Trio, get the version with the inbuilt radio.
Wired (on a bracket) just use a Canon TTL off camera cable.
Wirelessly you need an FW9T transmitter and a D23W-R 'D' adapter. This will give you wireless TTL with +2 to -3 stops FEC.
The Trio can be triggered remotely by using the FW9T connected directly to the camera by sync cable or by using an adapter foot to fit to your hotshoe.
Stuart,
I use both the Trio and the T5D-R and fire them both with the Quantum Pilot. It's really a great 2 light set up and I use it more and more for head shot's, engagement pics, bridals etc...instead of my studio lights. I can pack all my lighting in a smaller camera backpack and travel lightly. Combine that with a couple of Cheetah stands and you have a great 2go kit.
The Pilot allows you to control and fire up to three Trio's or a combination of Trio's and T5's connected to a FW7Q.
FYI, there's a great deal right now on the buy and sale board for a T5D-R and it's even been tempting to me to pick up another one. They are really that good.
Jim
With already having 580EX flashes you might consider using these as remotes controlled by the Trio. Quantum have a QLink product specifically for either Nikon or Canon which combined with a FW8R receiver will allow the speedlight to be controlled by a Quantum 'Master'. The same is true in reverse.. A T5d-R can be controlled by a 580 Master subject to the limitations of the Canon IR system.
The versatility you get within the one system is unmatched anywhere.
Thank to all for your responses. I will probably keep one 580 on hand and give my others to my daughter. That way I can consider it as another option.
I have decided to try the Pilot, trio, SC turbo option first and may add a used T5D-R (another battery? maybe) as mentioned not a bad price for used out there. I want to see what the trio can do in bright light first. The pilot while huge seems to be a better option for me than the transmitter and canon trigger unless I have misunderstood something along the way. At least that is what I am going to try for now.
I hope the learning curve will not be too extreme.
I feel really poor....Hopefully I will be getting a tax refund. :-)
There is a learning curve out there for the menu's on the Trio and Pilot. Quantum has some good tutorials on their site as well as Will Crockett on ShootSmarter.com.
Things people forget and get frustrated about is to make sure you have both set to the same radio group. I usually assign my main light to R1 and fill etc..to R2. Once you have everything set and get familiar with the menu's it's easy to control the Trio.
When shooting off camera in a remote group always remember to turn on your remote flashes first and then turn on the pilot. I had a few hiccups early on and learned this from Quantum.
Good luck with your new system and don't forget to post back here with questions and your results.
I use the T5D-R as an off-camera key light, usually but not always behind a shoot through umbrella. You can put your 580 EX on the hotshoe for fill when needed, and send the signal to the T5D-R via the FreeXwire FW9T transmitter connected to the camera's sync socket. I velcro the FW9T to the top of the 580 EX, or you can buy a fitting to attach the FW9T to the bottom of the camera. On the T5D-R, you use the FW7Q receiver, which attached nicely to the body of the T5D-R. This is David Ziser's standard wedding lighting approach. If it's good enough for Ziser, it's good enough for me.
Before using the Trio and Pilot I fitted the FreeXwire radio to a RRS L bracket using a QR clamp. The same radio and clamp are used if using the T5d-R or X5d-R on a RRS WP-1 bracket. Having the radio out to the side allows the addition of any hotshoe flash for on axis fill, or even 'on bracket' fill. The radio can be fitted to the hotshoe too. I still use this setup with multiple QFlash now when on camera flash isn't required.
why not put multiple canon 580s on a triflash that way you have scalibilty. You can use the Canon Wireless system if it will work for you. I use the above system from time to time using Pocket Wizard iTTL radios and a Zone Controller quite often.
Thanks again to all for the comments on this. So I got the Pilot and Trio and SC battery to give the quantum a try. Overall I was pleased with the light and general funtionality but as some of you said the Trio is not that much more powerful than the canon flashes. I think I will need to bring a T5D-r into the mix for some of what I want. I am debating if I want to keep the pilot or not. If the Trio can trigger T5D-R then how often would I have both off camera? It just might not be worth the cost. I guess I have about 30 less a few days to decide on returning the pilot to B&H. Take that money and use my canon flash as necessary with a qlink and reciever. Not sure the pilot is bringing that much value if the trio can do most of what it can once I have another flash head.
2 T5D-r units and the FreeXwire would have done the job.
The trio shoe has issues period. If you haven't seen that yet, you will. Shooting a crowded room your constantly on the look out for elbows so as not to whack off the show mount. The Pilot is redundant. If you have the controller/adapter for your make of body, you can control both lights without the extra $500.00 add-on.
So on the body your good to go, with the 2 off body and the Xwire, your still good.
I have sold the Trio after 2 hot shoe repairs at a cost of over $200.00 combined repair costs.. receptions, banquets, reunions.... They're just not a place where excuse me will cut it.
orcastu wrote:
Thanks again to all for the comments on this. So I got the Pilot and Trio and SC battery to give the quantum a try. Overall I was pleased with the light and general funtionality but as some of you said the Trio is not that much more powerful than the canon flashes. I think I will need to bring a T5D-r into the mix for some of what I want.
Yep.. there are reasons I say what I say
ukphotographer wrote:
My preference would be for a Trio and an X5d-R @400ws. But since your choice is between another Trio or a T5d-R, I'd get the extra power of the T5d-R.
Whatever.. I would still go with the X5d-R...
This is the way I see it.. external batteries are a PIA. If you're going to use an external battery you might as well have some benefit from it. They provide little benefit to speedlights, but you still have the inconvenience. A Turbo type battery is an external battery - so too is a QPAQ (with changeable battery). A T5d-R powered by a turbo has a max output of 160ws, an X5d-R powered with a QPAQ has a max output of 400ws, the QPAQ alone is a 200ws generator. (The 400ws is created by adding another 200ws booster, but you could add that later).
To hold a T5d-R and X5d-R you will feel little difference (the X5d-R is lighter), even though the X5d-R can provide more output. Of the whole Quantum range the X5d-R is the setup to have. The Trio is purely a means to control that remote X5d-R combining a flash and radio transceiver. The Trio, like speedlights, is underpowered, nothing you can do will increase that power, but you can use it to control the X5d-R at whatever output you require whilst having combined or independent power settings. It is this combination which is unbeatable.
If you further wish to expand your system after a Trio and X5d-R @200ws, you add +200ws to your QPAQ and X5d-R to give you a 400ws unit.. and then then you could add another X5d-R to share that 400ws between two heads (each working individually), then you might add additional 200ws boosters.. one more gives 600ws between two heads, two more gives 800ws between two heads.. a QPAQ will provide energy to two heads up to 400ws per channel each. (600ws will power 400+200, or 300+300, or anything else up to a total of 600ws. There is no asymetric restriction). Only you can decide whether one pack driving two heads is suitable or whether two packs would be better, but the option is always there. I like one pack per each head.
When it comes to using your flash outdoors, in bright light, or especially in modifiers, that extra output is invaluable and you have no messing around in setting it up.
I'll guarantee that you'll end up with the X5d-R setup one way or another, that would be my personal choice as it provides far more versatility. Cost wise the QPAQ and battery would be more expensive than a Turbo battery so your choice would depend on your budget.
John Skinner wrote:
2 T5D-r units and the FreeXwire would have done the job.
The trio shoe has issues period. If you haven't seen that yet, you will. Shooting a crowded room your constantly on the look out for elbows so as not to whack off the show mount. The Pilot is redundant. If you have the controller/adapter for your make of body, you can control both lights without the extra $500.00 add-on.
The inconvenience of adding a bracket, a D-adapter and a radio transmitter with the associated cabling to create a radio commander flash useable from the camera with little more output benefit and restricted to 2 remote groups is of little benefit compared to the integrated design of the Trio with 3 remote groups.
The system does work well using the T5/X5 controller setup, but comparing the Trio/T5d-R for this purpose the Trio would win everytime. Comparing the T5d-R and X5d-R for this purpose - the X5d-R would win.
I think you use Nikon.. I do too. My hotshoes grip like limpets and I've never had any issues with either the Trio or Pilot in this respect.
To control remote lights with a T5d-R or X5d-R - as mentioned about the bracket - you need a D-adapter and a radio transmitter attached to a T or X flash to control all remote functions. A D-adapter and radio transmitter alone will only perform remote TTL with +/- FEC, but not to control manual outputs in any way.
