p.1 #1 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
Hey guys, I was wondering if any of you compared the B+W 6 stop and 10 stop ND filter in terms of color cast. I want to go with Lee filters but since I don't know when they will become available I was thinking of picking up the B+W to use. Can't hurt to have a screwin option.
p.1 #2 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
I did see a test from around 12-18 months ago comparing about 6 different ND filters and even the Lee had a cast, but most were easily fixed in PP, especially if you use a grey card. Usually a magenta cast. So none were perfect. The best bet may for colour neutrality may be from a Sing-Ray vario ND, but they are seriously expensive
p.1 #3 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
I own and frequently use both my B+W 6- and 10-stop ND filters, and have also experienced the same magenta color cast on occasion. Typically it occurs with exposures that are over 10 seconds long and when I am shooting at the ocean on overcast/low light days, when the scene is generally more monochromatic anyway. Underexposure may contribute too. If I am in the mountains in a forested area, AND it is not an overcast day, the color cast is definitely not as apparent; generally it is not noticeable, even if the exposure is 10 seconds. So I suspect that while the ND filters contribute to the cast, there are other factors involved, such as the color temperature of the sky and surroundings.
p.1 #4 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
I don't know, just "parroting" what Ive read elsewhere, but I understand that Canon and Nikon cameras have different IR filters and that Nikon bodies don't show the amber cast as strongly as Canon bodies do with B+W 106 and 110 filters. I use the 106 and 110 with Canon bodies and always have a problem removing the cast fully as it can't be completely fixed with the usual green/magenta and colour temp controls in RAW converters. The Hoya NDx400 has a bluish cast which I find easy to 'fix'.
p.1 #6 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
I think you may find 6 stops isn't enough in bright light, sometimes even 10 stops isn't for my taste. 6 may have less color cast, but 4 stops is a big difference to have when your trying to get exposures of at least several seconds midday
p.1 #7 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
pocketfulladou wrote:
I own the 3, 6, and 10 in MRC and I don't notice much from the 6 like you would with the 10. I'll try and get you a comparison...
If can post a comparison that would be great!
millsart wrote:
I think you may find 6 stops isn't enough in bright light, sometimes even 10 stops isn't for my taste. 6 may have less color cast, but 4 stops is a big difference to have when your trying to get exposures of at least several seconds midday
Ya I'm worried that the 10 stop might not be enough. But I'm still thinking of picking up the Lee filters if an when I can catch them in stock so if the 6 has less color cast, it might be worth picking it up to complement something like the Big Stopper later on.
p.1 #8 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
I received a copy of Black and White Photography today....a UK mag, and it is reviewing slot in filters including ND ones. You might be able to read the article on line...but HITECH filters came out well on price and performance....COKIN the worst.
p.1 #9 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
JohnJ wrote:
I don't know, just "parroting" what Ive read elsewhere, but I understand that Canon and Nikon cameras have different IR filters and that Nikon bodies don't show the amber cast as strongly as Canon bodies do with B+W 106 and 110 filters.
I've also seen plots showing the rising IR transmission of many ND filters (including the B+W ones), and heard it theorized that the color cast in strong ND filters was due to excess IR leakage.
To test whether excess IR leakage was the main problem, I added a B+W 486 filter (IR and UV cut, blocks most light >~700nm) behind a B+W 110 ND filter. Even with the extra IR suppression, the ND filter still produced the same magenta color cast (on a Canon 5D). So I think that a lot of the color cast is coming from the visible light region, not just extra IR.
p.1 #10 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
mpmendenhall wrote:
I've also seen plots showing the rising IR transmission of many ND filters (including the B+W ones), and heard it theorized that the color cast in strong ND filters was due to excess IR leakage.
To test whether excess IR leakage was the main problem, I added a B+W 486 filter (IR and UV cut, blocks most light >~700nm) behind a B+W 110 ND filter. Even with the extra IR suppression, the ND filter still produced the same magenta color cast (on a Canon 5D). So I think that a lot of the color cast is coming from the visible light region, not just extra IR....Show more →
p.1 #11 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
JohnJ wrote:
I don't know, just "parroting" what Ive read elsewhere, but I understand that Canon and Nikon cameras have different IR filters and that Nikon bodies don't show the amber cast as strongly as Canon bodies do with B+W 106 and 110 filters. I use the 106 and 110 with Canon bodies and always have a problem removing the cast fully as it can't be completely fixed with the usual green/magenta and colour temp controls in RAW converters. The Hoya NDx400 has a bluish cast which I find easy to 'fix'.
JJ
The different IR behavior of Canons and Nikons is well documented, and is the explanation for the reddish hue that is prevalent on Canons. Not good or bad, just different. I am a Nikon guy so I can' speak for Canon, except via other people's images. Here is an example from an image with a 10-stop ND that has a heavy (and uncorrectable) magenta cast. In this particular case it works great with the image, but in certain circumstances it can be a PITA: http://ian-plant.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d36f8y6
I have used a B+W, Hoya, and Lee 10-stop NDs on a variety of Nikons. Of them the B+W definitely had he heaviest IR leakage and was the most difficult to deal with in PP. Hoya was much more pleasant and correctable, but the filter itself suffers from the usual Hoya stickiness, attracts dirt like crazy, and is is difficult to clean in the field, e.g., if you get water spray on it. The Big Stopper is the most neutral of these, probably because it uses metal coatings to achieve the attenuation (metals have a much stronger IR absorption than most die and resins). Last but not least, using a 10-stop filter with a Lee holder is a real pleasure. Compose, meter, attach filter, adjust exposure, shoot, lather, rinse, repeat. No need to unscrew the filter every time you change composition. Some have said that you can use LV to overcome the need for unscrewing the filter, but I have never been able to get this to work on my D90.
p.1 #12 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
Ok, so I have examples of No Filter, 3, 6, 9, 10, 13, 16, and 19 stops by stacking MRC B+W ND filters. The image itself is lame, sorry, I just ran outside for the test. I noticed that the 3 stop is really about 3-1/3 stops and the 10-stop is really about 10-1/3 stops filtration. Now, uhhh, how do I upload images here again ?
p.1 #13 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
Yeah my Lee Big Stopper is more like 10.5 stops as well. I ended up calculating and making a custom exposure time chart to compensate for that so my 10-stop exposures are more predictable.
p.1 #14 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
if you are experiencing a magenta color cast you have IR leakage in your camera. the B+W filters block considerably less near IR light than visible. the color casts i get on my Nikons, which have very good IR blocking in camera, are mostly corrected by white balance alone. when i need critical color with a very dense filter, a ColorChecker and a custom camera profile do it perfectly. Canon DSLRs generally have much poorer IR blocking in the camera's hot mirror filter. i've run tests on cameras designed for IR capture and with ones known to have lots of IR leakage. on these cameras, a visible light profile generated by a ColorChecker isn't adequate.
Herb....
H. Hoolee wrote:
I own and frequently use both my B+W 6- and 10-stop ND filters, and have also experienced the same magenta color cast on occasion. Typically it occurs with exposures that are over 10 seconds long and when I am shooting at the ocean on overcast/low light days, when the scene is generally more monochromatic anyway. Underexposure may contribute too. If I am in the mountains in a forested area, AND it is not an overcast day, the color cast is definitely not as apparent; generally it is not noticeable, even if the exposure is 10 seconds. So I suspect that while the ND filters contribute to the cast, there are other factors involved, such as the color temperature of the sky and surroundings. ...Show more →
p.1 #15 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
Herb, I had this issue and also use a ColorChecker passport, but do you have any recommendations on how to do this with a CNX2 workflow which doesn't use DNG?
p.1 #16 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
mpmendenhall wrote:
To test whether excess IR leakage was the main problem, I added a B+W 486 filter (IR and UV cut, blocks most light >~700nm) behind a B+W 110 ND filter. Even with the extra IR suppression, the ND filter still produced the same magenta color cast (on a Canon 5D). So I think that a lot of the color cast is coming from the visible light region, not just extra IR.
It could perhaps be the front element reflecting in the filter.
p.1 #17 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
this is only one reason why i don't use CaptureNX. you have complex calculations to do for creating a profile and although there are other tools to do it besides the Passport software using a ColorChecker as reference, there is no way to apply the resulting profile in NX.
Herb...
pocketfulladou wrote:
Herb, I had this issue and also use a ColorChecker passport, but do you have any recommendations on how to do this with a CNX2 workflow which doesn't use DNG?
p.1 #18 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
Ok, so I'm not the only one then. I mentioned this on another board and people thought I was close to insane for even caring. I took a look at using the ArgylCMS libraries, but don't have time in my life right now to really read the manuals and test it to get it right. Have you? Works fine with ACR, but I think ACR is not up to CNX2 standards. The other thing I did was to use a massive array of color control points, and that got me pretty close, but man, what a pain.
p.1 #19 · B+W 6 stop vs 10 stop ND filter color cast
i work on far more images than NX lets me process in a day. i find NX one of the greatest impediments to getting something done with my NEF captures made. also, i don't think its results are sufficiently superior, if at all these days with LR 3.x, to bother.
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