I have 30+yrs experience in photography (with some breaks in the middle ), currently shooting Nikon, mostly corporate events, concerts, etc in available light. I have four speedlights (SB 700, SB800 and 2xSB900) that I use sometimes on location when absolutely necessary and I am fine with Nikon CLS system.
Now I get older (and wiser hopefully) and I consider to build a studio for product photography, portraits and groups (up to 10 people) photography. The room I will start to rehabilitate soon for this project is 12 by 24 feet but only 9 feet tall. On one 12 ft wall there are two windows (like 3x7 ft each in portrait mode) and on a 24 ft wall there are two doors. This leaves one long and one short wall empty.
My problem is that I am completely ignorant regarding studio setup and I want to invest carefully my money. I do not want cheap solutions but in the same way I do not want to throw my money on the window.
I would love to hear your opinion about what is the wisest way to build from scratch a studio in my situation. Let's list some of my needs:
1. Any advice about the space arrangement would be appreciated. What kind of ambient light I need to have in the studio? Apart of the main room the location includes a small office, a restroom, a small room to let people change their clothes and a hallway.
2. I need help to decide what kind of lights I need to accomplish my work. Is it possible to set up the studio based exclusively on Nikon speedlights, eventually adding some units? It is better to keep the speedlights only for those rare situations when I need them on location and to go completely on studio strobes? Please keep in mind that I do not need this equipment to go out from the studio... so do not think at portability.
3. Is it a wise way to mix speedlights and studio strobes without to compromise the quality? With a SU-800 I can command three groups of speedlights and control each group's output individually. I can have the main light on one group, the fill on the second, and a backlight on the third. Can I mix with a continuous light for background if necessary? Could be this a good solution in the long run?
4. What kind of lighting system I need for groups of people. If I have a group of 10 people, on two rows, how I need to put the lights? How many?
5. If speedlights are not a good idea for this studio I am seriously considering Einsteins or a combination of Einsteins and Alien Bees if this can work. What exactly I will need to cover all situations (product, portrait and 10 people groups)? I ask this because I need to import the equipment and it is wise to order everything at once to save shipping costs.
Finally, I know that here are a lot of questions... but I really hope you can help me to overcome my lack of experience. Thanks in advance for any advice or idea you can throw here.
I'm just a hobbyist but have a pair of speedlights I use for location PJ style shooting and a set of four AB800s I bought in 2004 I keep set-up in a basement 10' x 18' basement studio I use for portraits and the occasional product shot.
1. The 9' ceiling height will be somewhat limiting for the wider group shots you are anticipating. When purchasing modifiers keep in mind for natural looking modeling the light needs to at a downward angle of about 45° and as you move lights further back for wider shots big modifiers will hit the ceiling and wind up too low for standing subjects. But there are workarounds I've used such as seating family groups on cushions on the floor or bouncing lights off walls and ceiling vs. aiming directly.
As for ambient level the primary concern photographically is: 1) the ambient isn't so bright it causes color casts or cancels modeling lighting, and 2) controlling the size of the pupils in the eyes. If you work with studio lights instead of your speedlights you will be able to work just by their modeling lights. Other than that having lighting on a dimmer hitting the wall your subjects will be looking toward can be helpful in adjusting pupil size.
2. If you want to do studio lighting without a lot of logistical hassles with gear go with studio lights. With your level of experience you can make just about anything work. I went with four 320WS AB800s when I bought mine eight years ago because I didn't want to spend a lot (they were $250 each at the time). The newer Einstein system while costing about 2x more per unit have higher output and better controls.
3. Again you can make anything work but if you want to do studio work my advice is use the tools designed for the job. It will cost you more perhaps but you will have fewer headaches. Speedlights lack modeling lights and aren't designed to recycle fast or allow mounting of modifiers.
4. The best strategy for groups is a centered butterfly pattern: key above camera and heads, fill in line with lens about chin level. As mentioned the problem you'll have with a group of 10 the space you mention is ceiling height.
5. If you can swing it budget-wise go with the Einsteins which can be controlled remotely with Buff's CyberCommander system. Four lights for key, fill, hair and background is a basic configuration that will handle most tasks on darker backgrounds. To evenly light white backgrounds you'll want to have lights on either side raising the total to five.
Wow! You already give me a clear direction! Thank you!
1. I see your point about group shots... I was afraid about this... What do you think would be the minimum height of the room to avoid this problem? Regarding ambient light... do you consider that the best thing is to cut completely the natural light in order to rely on modeling light, of course if using Einsteins?
2 & 3. Good point about going exclusively with studio lights. I need a solution that is simple and powerful and on the long run I know that having not to deal with "n" sets of batteries and with detailed menu settings will be rewarding. Also the lack of modeling light has its own disadvantage.
4. I see! Thanks!
5. I will try to fit in my budget the Einsteins and the CyberCommander system. I already feel that my task is simplified. BTW I just went briefly on your website and I am overwhelmed... I think you are giving food for my many nights from now ahead! I see that you have even a tutorial about group shots... This is more that I expected when I decided to ask for help!
12ft ceilings would be better for groups and other wide shots. With groups if you raise the camera up off the ground by standing on a step stool or chair then have the people look up at the camera. With the camera looking down at the same angle they are looking up sensor and faces are parallel and look the same as on ground level, but the looking up works like an instant facelift to tighten up the loose necks and eliminate the double chins. But when you rotate the face up 15° or so that also means you need to rise your key light higher relative to the face to maintain the 45° downward angle relative to the eye line. Add to that the fact you'll want a larger modifier for more even lighting over the group, the more ceiling height you have the better.
Any ambient light you have in the shooting space will bias what the modeling lights are trying to show you about the lighting ratio. The modeling lights are proportional to the flash power so you can roughly judge how the lighting ratio will look by eye. I don't even bother with metering for ratios. I set by eye based on the modeling lights, confirm with test shots, and set exposure via clipping warning on the camera. See my tutorial on lighting white backgrounds for the workflow.
Again I thank you for the further explanations! Its much clear now. Anyhow, I'll dig more into your site and if necessary I'll dare to ask for clarifications!
Hard to say what is best for you. My studio has 3 windows on 2 sides of the shooting area. I cover 3 on one wall to block out all light. I alow light in from 1-3 on the other wall by use of window coverings.All depends on time of day and what is being shot. I like to shoot using a mix of natural light and flash. If I need total light control then I simply black out the windows and shoot only using flash.
For a group of 10 I think the ceiling and room size will be a problem. 12 feet wide is not that much room for over 3-4 people and as I understand using a wide wall of 24 feet you have only 12 feet of depth. Can't see how you would have space to light the background after moving subject 3-4 feet away to prevent spill, leaving you with 7-8 feet to shoot before hitting a wall.
Sounds to me like the room would be limited to 1-2 person portraits.
Also take into consideration the size of light modifiers. I like large which are about 4 feet long and 3 feet wide. 2 take up 6 feet of space plus require room to turn and angle taking up more area. For a standing person to get the light high they might hit the ceiling. My 11' ceilings are not ideal but work Ok for most of what I shoot.12' would be perfect.9' with large modifiers may be a issue.
jefferies1 wrote:
Hard to say what is best for you. My studio has 3 windows on 2 sides of the shooting area. I cover 3 on one wall to block out all light. I alow light in from 1-3 on the other wall by use of window coverings.All depends on time of day and what is being shot. I like to shoot using a mix of natural light and flash. If I need total light control then I simply black out the windows and shoot only using flash.
For a group of 10 I think the ceiling and room size will be a problem. 12 feet wide is not that much room for over 3-4 people and as I understand using a wide wall of 24 feet you have only 12 feet of depth. Can't see how you would have space to light the background after moving subject 3-4 feet away to prevent spill, leaving you with 7-8 feet to shoot before hitting a wall.
Sounds to me like the room would be limited to 1-2 person portraits.
Also take into consideration the size of light modifiers. I like large which are about 4 feet long and 3 feet wide. 2 take up 6 feet of space plus require room to turn and angle taking up more area. For a standing person to get the light high they might hit the ceiling. My 11' ceilings are not ideal but work Ok for most of what I shoot.12' would be perfect.9' with large modifiers may be a issue. ...Show more →
Thanks a lot for joining the talk... This thread is helping me very much and I already have some ideas how to improve. When I considered 10 people groups... 10 would be rather the exception... general is 3 to 5 and only sometimes 6 or more. For 10 people I was thinking of managing them in two or even three close rows... but again this would be the exception. Regarding the height... this seems to be an important problem and I want to add at least two feet by digging into ground (its an old house that does not have a concrete floor, just a wooden one that anyhow I need to replace... So I may reduce a bit this problem.
Regarding the light modifiers, I think the big problem is with the key light... I may say a stupid thing... but I wonder if I can't use a very large umbrella to shoot in in order to reflect the light. This umbrella could be raised until will be tangent to the ceiling while a softbox or octobox will require more space because of their shape...
Regarding using the windows... I definitely will set a way to blind the light but I want to give them a nice shape, eventually for some creative portraits by the window in the natural light with some reflectors or with some additional light. I wonder how do you pick the right WB when mixing natural light with flash.
The curved shape of an umbrella vs other modifiers would allow you to get it's center a bit higher but probably not enough to make much difference in the lighting on the faces. Digging down is certainly a creative way to solve the problem, but keep ground water and drainage in mind during construction so you don't wind up with an indoor swimming pool after a heavy rain
Regarding the WB question. When you add a SB to a flash the color temp of the flash winds up very near daylight. If the windows face north and get indirect light from the sky it should be a bit cooler than daylight.
Mishu01 wrote:
1. Any advice about the space arrangement would be appreciated. What kind of ambient light I need to have in the studio? Apart of the main room the location includes a small office, a restroom, a small room to let people change their clothes and a hallway.
Mixing ambient light with the strobes will probably work against you. I'd leave the 'house' lights off, and use the model lights in the heads, plus a lamp or two to focus and to keep the mood in the studio up when you're photographing live subjects. Working in the dark is a studio photographer's best friend, but not so great for models, families, etc. Just remember to keep those secondary lights off your set when you're actually shooting, so you won't be mixing light temperatures. Also, I'd hang Duvetyne on curtain rods if you have any windows in the shooting space. This will black out the windows when you pull them closed (like a curtain), but can be pulled back to allow sunlight to come in when you aren't shooting. If you don't intend to utilize natural sunlight, you can black the windows out with black seamless paper cut to size. Much cheaper.
Also, you can make a V-Flat from two pieces of 4'x8' foam core taped together with gaff tape. This will act as a wall divider that a model can change in. It also serves as a life size bounce flat (if you buy the white foam core) that you can use for fill light on your subjects. If you buy the 'one side white, one side black' foam core, you'll effectively have one life-sized bounce card (white side), and one life-sized flag (black side) for sucking light, when you need to cut reflection and fill down. If you add a third side to the V-Flat, the model can close the changing room, entirely. Cost-effective.
2. I need help to decide what kind of lights I need to accomplish my work. Is it possible to set up the studio based exclusively on Nikon speedlights, eventually adding some units? It is better to keep the speedlights only for those rare situations when I need them on location and to go completely on studio strobes? Please keep in mind that I do not need this equipment to go out from the studio... so do not think at portability.
Depends on what you prefer to shoot, and how often. You can achieve diverse results across many subjects with speedlights, though at times, you might want the additional power, plus the options for a large selection of light modifiers used with strobes. You should really consider what it is you want in your portfolio.
cgardner wrote:
Digging down is certainly a creative way to solve the problem, but keep ground water and drainage in mind during construction so you don't wind up with an indoor swimming pool after a heavy rain
Well... the area is quite dry and I will make sure to do the proper work to prevent issues!
cgardner wrote:
Regarding the WB question. When you add a SB to a flash the color temp of the flash winds up very near daylight. If the windows face north and get indirect light from the sky it should be a bit cooler than daylight.
Skarkowtsky wrote:
Mixing ambient light with the strobes will probably work against you. I'd leave the 'house' lights off, and use the model lights in the heads, plus a lamp or two to focus and to keep the mood in the studio up when you're photographing live subjects. Working in the dark is a studio photographer's best friend, but not so great for models, families, etc. Just remember to keep those secondary lights off your set when you're actually shooting, so you won't be mixing light temperatures. Also, I'd hang Duvetyne on curtain rods if you have any windows in the shooting space. This will black out the windows when you pull them closed (like a curtain), but can be pulled back to allow sunlight to come in when you aren't shooting. If you don't intend to utilize natural sunlight, you can black the windows out with black seamless paper cut to size. Much cheaper.
Also, you can make a V-Flat from two pieces of 4'x8' foam core taped together with gaff tape. This will act as a wall divider that a model can change in. It also serves as a life size bounce flat (if you buy the white foam core) that you can use for fill light on your subjects. If you buy the 'one side white, one side black' foam core, you'll effectively have one life-sized bounce card (white side), and one life-sized flag (black side) for sucking light, when you need to cut reflection and fill down. If you add a third side to the V-Flat, the model can close the changing room, entirely. Cost-effective.
Very good advice! Thank you! I think I'll simplify my life relying strictly on the light from strobes. I'll use natural light only for some portraits by the window but on rare situations. 99% will be strobes.
Since I'll have a room designed for models / people to change.... the V-flat does not seems necessary for now but keeping some boards of foam core at hands with different colors seems to be a good idea.
Skarkowtsky wrote:
Depends on what you prefer to shoot, and how often. You can achieve diverse results across many subjects with speedlights, though at times, you might want the additional power, plus the options for a large selection of light modifiers used with strobes. You should really consider what it is you want in your portfolio.
Well, it seems that the best decisions is to acquire the system that will offer plenty of possibilities in the long run... so I am seriously considering at this time to go for Einsteins. I am sure that they'll give me the power and the flexibility I need... everyone seems to be very happy with them and I did not saw any negative feedback... I have zero experience with them but the technical specs are amazing and I'm not afraid to experiment and to learn. My background is in engineering... so I am getting more and more excited!
I spoke with the man that will help me rehabilitate the house where I plan to set up the studio and he promised me 12 ft height in that room!
One extra question... what about the color of the walls and of the ceiling? It's a good idea to have them painted with a white matte paint? Any other suggestion regarding color / paint?
Keep the walls white: flat or eggshell. If you have the option, lightvwood floors, or polished cement floors, around 18% gray.
Even though strobe light is blue, and tungsten light is yellow, light is 'white'. Better to keep the more difficult reflective surfaces (walls and floors) white, or close to it.
Thanks for your opinion! Black would be interesting from the control point of view... but I think would be strange for visitors / clients / models... Probably white walls and gray floor is a good compromise.
For my small studio, I went with 1 white wall, that I keep a spare dark background hanging over most of the time. That give me options. The oposite wall I have a dark grey. Give me lots of flexibilities. In my experience, a small studio with all white walls makes it very hard to do edgy, and low key lighting for subjects.
For shooting people, you might want to lean toward the others advice about wall colors in a small space. I photograph still life, it's a different animal. : )
Mishu01 wrote:
Well, it seems that the best decisions is to acquire the system that will offer plenty of possibilities in the long run... so I am seriously considering at this time to go for Einsteins. I am sure that they'll give me the power and the flexibility I need... everyone seems to be very happy with them and I did not saw any negative feedback...
There are negatives, but they are generally minor:
There were to be two product lines. The Einstein was to be more consumer-orientated and the Max more for the professional market with a better housing and models with higher output. Only the Einstein went into production.
Unlike almost all other flash units, the Einstein lacks a handle to use when positioning the lights. This is compounded by the cubic housing of the Einstein, which while offering a quite compact design, is made of plastic with a smooth finish and nothing to grip. Also the Balcar mounting system isn’t really strong enough to allow positioning the lights using the modifier (softbox, etc). If you search through the threads here, you will find images of Einsteins with makeshift handles and with stair tread material glued to them.
The backplate control interface isn’t great either, especially when compared to something like Hensel, or the beautifully designed Profoto D1 backplate. However, no one else has a remote with a graphical display, and with a Cyber Commander, there really is little need to use the controls on the head. There is an iPhone app for the Elinchrom Skyport system, and that is probably where everything will end up eventually.
), currently shooting Nikon, mostly corporate events, concerts, etc in available light. I have four speedlights (SB 700, SB800 and 2xSB900) that I use sometimes on location when absolutely necessary and I am fine with Nikon CLS system.