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Archive 2012 · Bogen Manfrotto expan question from B&H
  
 
teebat
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p.1 #1 · Bogen Manfrotto expan question from B&H


Right now I use the expan system with a bracket that holds 3 seamless rolls, I want to get the 6 roll system http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/5177-REG/Manfrotto_045_6_045_6_Background_Holder_Hooks.html

but instead of being stacked at different distances from the wall it appears that the top 2, middle 2 and bottom 2 are the same distance from the wall. Does anyone know if this will cause any problem by having pairs of paper rolls basically on top of each other ?



Jan 06, 2012 at 01:01 AM
hugowolf
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p.1 #2 · Bogen Manfrotto expan question from B&H


I use the three roll system, but I have used the six before and I dont remember a problem with it. I have often thought that the three roll system should have the top one further out than the middle one and the middle one further out than the bottom one.


Jan 06, 2012 at 01:39 AM
BrianO
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p.1 #3 · Bogen Manfrotto expan question from B&H


teebat wrote:
..it appears that the top 2, middle 2 and bottom 2 are the same distance from the wall. Does anyone know if this will cause any problem by having pairs of paper rolls basically on top of each other ?


No problem; just place the rolls on the holder so that for each pair, the top roll feeds from the back and the bottom roll feeds from the front. That way you have plenty of clearance amongst the rolls.

You'd also then have three chains on the right of the BG (rolls 1, 3, and 5 for example) and three chains on the left of the BG (rolls 2, 4, and 6), so -- again -- plenty of clearance.



Jan 06, 2012 at 07:28 AM
ukphotographer
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p.1 #4 · Bogen Manfrotto expan question from B&H


BrianO wrote:
No problem; just place the rolls on the holder so that for each pair, the top roll feeds from the back and the bottom roll feeds from the front. That way you have plenty of clearance amongst the rolls.
.


You only ever use one roll at a time - so why does it matter even if two line up?

Always the rolls fall at the rear of the arms because the INSIDE of the rolls are what you need to use as your background surface - not the outside. There is a RIGHT and WRONG side to paper and material even. The RIGHT side is the inside.



Jan 06, 2012 at 04:53 PM
teebat
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p.1 #5 · Bogen Manfrotto expan question from B&H


ukphotographer wrote:
You only ever use one roll at a time - so why does it matter even if two line up?

Always the rolls fall at the rear of the arms because the INSIDE of the rolls are what you need to use as your background surface - not the outside. There is a RIGHT and WRONG side to paper and material even. The RIGHT side is the inside.


I just wanted to have all of the chains on the same side, I guess I could put half on the other end, and yes I use the inside of the roll.



Jan 06, 2012 at 09:13 PM
 

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BrianO
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p.1 #6 · Bogen Manfrotto expan question from B&H


ukphotographer wrote:
You only ever use one roll at a time - so why does it matter even if two line up? ...Always the rolls fall at the rear of the arms because the INSIDE of the rolls are what you need to use as your background surface - not the outside. There is a RIGHT and WRONG side to paper and material even. The RIGHT side is the inside.


If you're using the paper for full-length sweeps, then yes, it's easier to unroll from the back so the sweep follows the natural curve of the paper; but if you're using the paper as a BG only, with weighted ends as we did at the studio where I apprenticed, it helps to have the paper rolls hung alternately so the weight bars have clearance to move past each other. In the latter case, the side of the paper facing the camera is immaterial.

I wanted to double check this, in case manufacturing processes had substantially changed in the last 20 years and there was an actual difference in one side of the paper over the other, so I e-mailed Savage Universal and this was what I got in reply:

"Seamless paper can technically be used on either side. The "right" side however, is on the inside of the roll as it is unwound. Using this side preserves the color against fading, and also makes unrolling it out for a proper "sweep" much easier."



Jan 06, 2012 at 09:57 PM
ukphotographer
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p.1 #7 · Bogen Manfrotto expan question from B&H


I've been a working photographer for 32 years... in that time the background papers haven't changed at all, they're all made in the same way. The inside is matt and slightly rough rather than the outside being smooth, slightly glossy and reflective. The inside has a denser colour and shows up the wood pulp less.

Cool response from Savage Universal, the RIGHT side is the inside as I stated. Of course you can use it the wrong way around, I'd happily sell you some if thats what you wanted to do with it.. in fact - if you want to make Origami boats with it and sail them down the river I'll sell them to you for that too. Technically you can make Origami boats with it, but practically they'll sink - thats up to you - much like the reflections can sink you if you use the wrong side for photography.



Jan 06, 2012 at 10:36 PM
hugowolf
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p.1 #8 · Bogen Manfrotto expan question from B&H


I use the inside of the paper 85-95% of the time. Perhaps I was told it was the right side or maybe because on tactile examination it felt like the right side. But photographically I cant say that I have ever noticed a difference between the two, and physically the curvature of the outside works better.

Id love to see a couple of comparison shots where someone could point out the visual differences between the two I wouldnt be surprised, Id be shocked if there was any recordable difference.



Jan 07, 2012 at 06:01 AM
cgardner
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p.1 #9 · Bogen Manfrotto expan question from B&H


Some general background on paper from someone who planned printing jobs and ran printing plants for years to explain why the two sides are different textures.

The difference in texture on the two sides of uncoated papers is a result of the manufacturing process. The wet pulp is spread out onto a fine screen with the water pressed out by a felt roller which gives the bottom "wire" side more "tooth" than the top "felt" side. It would seem from what Savage told BrianO, that when rolling the paper from the mill rolls onto the cores for resale reverses direction resulting in the smoother "felt" side being on the inside rather than the outside as on the mill rolls. That would also tend to make the paper roll out straighter because the the curl on the retail rolls with be counter the the curve on the mill rolls.

Paper also has grain in the direction the web travels through the paper making mill which can be seen when it torn or folded. For example, when planning the printing of a cover which has a folded spine imposing it on the sheet of paper so the spine runs the same direction of as the paper grain will prevent cracking. The grain direction also affects how rolls of paper flat sheets of paper cut from the web rolls will curl. On a seamless background the grain will run in the direction it unfold which should resulting in the edges curling down / up depending on how it is mounted and unrolled.






Jan 07, 2012 at 03:02 PM





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