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Archive 2011 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???

  
 
RustyBug
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p.1 #1 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


Looking to take another stab at a website ... just a bit "overwhelmed" by the laundry list involved.

I'm not looking to use Flickr/Smugmug/etc. but rather to have a stand-alone site. Where might one find a good "A-B-C primer" to help separate the "wheat from the chaff" regarding website arhictecture choices for those who are "architecture challenged" ??

I hear people tossing around "wordpress" and "joomla" and "CMS" ... HTML5 vs. Flash, etc. ... yet figuring out how the pertinent pieces all "fit together" is rather elusive. You hear a lot about "just" do this ... or "just" do that ... it's cheap & easy. Yet, anytime someone says "just" it raises red flags for me as to what are they NOT considering and how will it "bite you" down the road.

A good "website primer" specific to photographic concerns/issues thread could be a nice candidate for a "sticky thread".

Laundry List of considerations from one website ... yikes.

Web Templates
Website Templates
Flash Templates
Flash CMS Templates
Flash Intro Templates
Flash Photo Gallery Templates
SWiSH Templates
Mobile Templates
E-commerce Templates
osCommerce Templates
Magento Themes
ZenCart Templates
PrestaShop Themes
VirtueMart Templates
CRE Loaded Templates
CMS & Blog Templates
Joomla Templates
Drupal Templates
WordPress Themes
PhpBB Templates
Mambo Templates
PHP-Nuke Templates
Tumblr Themes
Corporate Design
PowerPoint Templates
Logo Templates
Corporate Identity
Logosets
Icon Sets
Music
Stock Music
Silverlight
Silverlight Templates
Silverlight Intro Templates
Facebook Layouts
Facebook Flash Templates
Facebook Flash CMS Templates
Facebook Templates
Turnkey CMS Facebook Templates
Video Templates
After Effects Intros
After Effects Logo Reveals
Video Ecards
HD Graphics Packages
Turnkey Websites
Turnkey Websites 2.0
Turnkey Websites 1.0



Dec 24, 2011 at 12:11 PM
cwebster
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p.1 #2 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


I think you have the cart before the horse here. Instead of worrying about the details of how to implement a site, you need to focus on the higher level objectives of the site:

who is the audience?
what is the intention of the site (sell print, show portfolio, sell services to brides, etc.)?
what "kind" of site are you interested in (blog, static portfolio, mobile-friendly, etc.)?
do you have a personal "brand" or style that you want expressed by your site?

after you have answered these questions, then you can look at ways to implement your requirements and vision

If you aren't a designer who can bring a coherent theme or design to bear, I suggest you work with someone who is.

Approaching a site from the nut and bolts end without a coherent vision will produce a camel (i.e., a horse designed by committee).

Click on the WWW button below to see how a professional designer can bring simplicity and elegance to a busy multi-gallery site.

<Chas>



Dec 24, 2011 at 01:12 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #3 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


That's kind of the point of the "primer" that I'm looking for ... to provide a baseline from which to listen to the advice of others so I'm not going "What's that " or "So how does that work with XYZ " about 10,000 times an hour.

I understand the "with the end in mind" aspect vs. nuts & bolts without a map. ... but you tell someone you want a portfolio (for now) ... and they say "Great, You Gotta Go with Flash, its perfect for you." ... then later you decide you want to sell from it ... and the next guy say's "Flash, who ever told you that didn't know what they were talking about, you gotta have HTML" ... and the next guy comes along and goes "Wordpress" that's a playground for hackers and the problem with it is XYZ ... didn't anybody ever tell warn you about that ... what were you thinking?" Then you run into the "How come I can't do XYZ ... oh, you have to have a different setup (dynamic vs. static, etc.)"

At the end of the day (today & tomorrow), the only one it's gonna fall back on is yourself ... and ignorance in decision making because you thought "so & so" knew what you needed doesn't fix anything down the road.

A little self-education (i.e. primer) before working with someone (i.e. NOT trying to do this alone) can help facilitate the effort. For instance, a model that studies lighting and photogrpahy will be able to understand/communicate with a photographer better than one who doesn't. She isn't tying to become a photographer or a grip or take her own pictures ... she just see's the significance of educating herself a bit as being helpful to the process. Of course if she thinks she's gonna run the shoot because she's got a little knowledge, that's a totally different matter.

Just looking for a good primer ... not a specific answer to my goals. After all, you tell someone you want to be a wedding photographer (end in mind) and someone will tell you you gotta shoot MF for quality, while another will say FF for best of both worlds and another says crop is more than sufficient. If you don't educate yourself more about MF, FF or crop ... you're just blowin' in the wind at the mercy of whoever has the best "gift of gab" to talk you into one direction of the other.

I don't want to build the site ... but I would like to know why it costs $25,000 for a MF digital camera before I take out a second mortgage and whether or not that is a prudent or excessive approach. No different than learning a bit about pro's & cons of post & frame vs. pre-fab vs. log vs. stick vs. metal vs. stone before interviewing contractors ... they'll all tell you they're the best and you've got nothing to worry about ... yet every type of architecture has its benefits and pitfalls.

Caveat Emptor ... forewarned is forearmed ... just looking for a good primer.




Dec 24, 2011 at 02:22 PM
jefferies1
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p.1 #4 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


I think you can divide the choice into two catagories. Flash and Non flash.
After that is is more of a "Favorite Color" choice as they all can do the same depending on the amount of knowledge the designer has.Joomba, Dreamweaver
(What you see is what you get style),Drupal etc. The big divider is Flash is not friendly and never will be. Forget SEO with it and leave out the large growing user base with Iphones/Ipads.

The template is the key. If you don't own the template then you are forever at the control of the person who does. Even if you have access to the FTP site and can make a copy you might be in copyright violation anyway. Just like someone making a copy of your photo.
Any of the systems can be made for retail sales, photo galleries, daily blogs using Wordpress pages, video inserts and can be Search Engine friendly.




Dec 24, 2011 at 03:17 PM
blob loblaw
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p.1 #5 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


where did you get that annoying list of words? 80% are 'theme' or 'template' of some sort?

I've never seen an online 'primer' on photography website building.
Go with a designer unless you plan on doing it yourself, and stay away from flash.

Good designers and design houses will have many samples and examples.



Dec 25, 2011 at 06:47 AM
jbregar
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p.1 #6 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


Maybe building your own web site isn't in the cards. It's generally a good idea for people to stick to their core competencies when doing things professionally. If you're not confident in your web site skills, chances are you should either hire a person who does this for a living or go with a service geared toward your needs.

Forging ahead on your own is going to be a long road. Doing a good job at building web sites isn't something you just pick up in a weekend.



Dec 25, 2011 at 06:34 PM
chez
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p.1 #7 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


jbregar wrote:
Maybe building your own web site isn't in the cards. It's generally a good idea for people to stick to their core competencies when doing things professionally. If you're not confident in your web site skills, chances are you should either hire a person who does this for a living or go with a service geared toward your needs.

Forging ahead on your own is going to be a long road. Doing a good job at building web sites isn't something you just pick up in a weekend.


Sort of the same thing as Uncle Bob taking photos at your wedding. Best to leave things out of your competency to the professionals out there.



Dec 25, 2011 at 06:42 PM
Chiefdog72
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p.1 #8 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


A primer on websites would be kind of like a primer on which camera equipment to buy. Fill in the blank sites are cheap, fast, and easy; point and shoot so to speak; after point and shoot the learning curve gets steep.

I think I would divide websites up into 3 major categories: HTML, Flash, and CMS (content management system). Of course you could have a website that uses all of the above e.g. a HTML site with flash slide shows and a CMS blog.

All of the words you listed would fit into one or more of those categories.

HTML uses a program such as DreamWeaver to compile the code that creates the website pages. You can type a few characters into a text editor (note pad), save the file with an htm extension, and open it in a browser……there’s a webpage.

Flash requires a flash program (Adobe Flash) and the knowledge to use the program. Without the flash program the website cannot be edited.

CMS sites (wordpress, php, etc.) are “server side” sites and compiled in a database. The pages are not created until you click on something. Kind of like a bookkeeping program; you enter the data day after day but when you want to know how much money you’ve spent you get a report. The report is not created that shows all your entries (money you’ve spent on camera gear) until you ask for it…..Most all news sites and blogs are CMS.

Which is best?.............I’ll answer that question with a question. Canon or Nikon or Lica or Hasselbald or maybe Sony Nex. Four thirds or full frame or 1.6 crop or 1.3 crop etc. etc.

Does the camera equipment or computer program matter; or is it the operator?



Dec 25, 2011 at 08:43 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #9 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


Chiefdog72

Now THAT's what I'm talking about ... THANKS !!!

Since we are dealing with image files (i.e. larger than text) I can see where CMS could have advantages to not needing to load everything at once. Are there any pro's / con's to be aware of where CMS or HTML have distinct disadvantages to the other (like loading speed/size limits/etc.) ... or are they otherwise equitable / preference of design utilization.

Again ... I'm NOT planning on building my own. I'm just trying to educate myself a bit to help facilitate the process of working with a competent professional ... as an educated client vs. an ignorant one. No "Uncle Bob" stuff here ... but I dont want to work with someone "blindly" either.

Thanks again, that helps provide some framework/foundation for me. Sounds kinda like the difference of working with Excel @ one worksheet vs Excel multiple worksheets (using reference sheets/cells/pivot tables) vs. Access with no worksheets ... or using SQL.



Dec 26, 2011 at 12:00 AM
Chiefdog72
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p.1 #10 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


I’m glad that helped Rustybug……..Just keep in mind that I’m speaking in broad strokes and generalities here…….

I applaud your effort to educate yourself; I wish more folks would do that. As others have already stated it is not necessarily which is the best platform, but which is the best platform for you. What you want to do will determine which platform is best for you. If possible speak in depth with a disinterested but knowledgeable computer person; not someone trying to sell you what they know how to do or trying to impress and baffle you with you nerd speak…….What seems like a minor detail to you could completely change the platform you use…..As with most things; the devil is in the details.

Very technically speaking, all websites are html; for a web page to show up in a browser the content is encapsulated in an html document. If you want to see what I mean clink on “view” in the menu bar of internet explorer then select “source”; a text document will open up showing all the syntax for the web page you are viewing.

In the old day’s tight programming, organization, and optimization was critical in delivering the content of a web page (remember dial up and modems). It is still important but not nearly as much. These days the host you choose, speed of his servers, and bandwidth you are allotted will have a lot to do with how fast your web page loads, regardless of the platform you choose.

As far as your question about HTML vs. CMS; they are two distinctly different platforms. I’ll try to explain in broad terms; hopefully I won’t confuse you more. Basically a HTML website consists of separate html documents for each web page (I won’t go into CSS; cascading style sheets) but it’s kind of like having a word document for each page vs. a bookkeeping program where all the information is in a database.

Using either platform you will probably have mixed content; for example the same flash slideshow of your photos could be used in either. Or you could have a java or active X based slideshow in either platform. Or you could simply display a jpeg of your photo in either platform.

CMS (content management systems) are mainly used for news sites or sites like Fred Miranda where there is constantly changing content. CMS sites are database driven and more complex to set up, and put a much heavier load on the web servers, but easy for users to change the content. You and I can just type away all we want; hit submit and there it is…..But for Fred to “throw on a different button”, like some members ask for, is a major undertaking……..Blogs are CMS for that reason, once the blog is set up users can update the blog easily, but if you want a “different look” from one page to another on your blog, that is an entirely different animal.

All of the files on an html site are on your (or your web designer’s) computer. The editing is done on your computer with a program such as DreamWeaver, and you upload the files to the server. On a CMS site the database resides on the server and editing is done there; you do still have to upload the files you reference in the database (jpegs for example) but the editing is done on the server.

I hope this helps you and doesn’t take a difficult to understand subject and turn it into complete jibberish.



Dec 26, 2011 at 07:58 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #11 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


Bruce ... you're "spot on" with the right amount of technical/broad stroke "primer" info ... I'm with you all the way.


+1 @ disinterested/knowledgeable
+1 @ minor detail/devil
+1 @ good programming/good hosting (i.e. synergistic efffect)


Gotcha @ host server speed ... how do you objectively assess/evaluate/determine fast vs. slow (i.e. they all claim to be fast)
Gotcha @ HTML/local pc editing vs. CMS/remote editing


@ Changing Hosts (i.e. too slow/outgrow/out of business/future proof) vs. HTML/CMS considerations


Thanks again.




Dec 26, 2011 at 09:39 AM
Chiefdog72
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p.1 #12 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


To answer your questions:

how do you objectively assess/evaluate/determine fast vs. slow
Do a search on google for “web hosting reviews”; you will get tons of ratings for different hosting companies. Again, who you choose depends on what; and how much of it; you want to do. So again, you’re getting a subjective answer to your objective question……..What you will find is that you can get very reasonable prices on some great services as part of a package, and in general most websites (even photography sites) will never use up more than what the package offers. Premium service; very large amounts of bandwidth, disk space, and high speed can start costing some premium prices.

@ Changing Hosts (i.e. too slow/outgrow/out of business/future proof) vs. HTML/CMS considerations
An html site is much easier to move to a different host, all of the files are on your computer and it is a simple a matter (for a tech guy) to setup a different account and change the account info over to the new server and upload the files. Your site will “usually” be up and running within 24 hours; most of that time is spent waiting on the DNS servers to catch up with your new server address…….A good tech can “most of the time” change you to a new server with no interruption at all…..I won’t bore you with those details.

In general, I tell folks to register their website themselves vs. having a designer furnish the site……This way the site is completely yours and you are not beholding to a designer in case the relationship goes sour. It is also a good idea to get a backup of your files from the designer.

A good host I like “in general” is Bluehost. They are very reasonable and have good speeds, lots of services, and have good reliability stats. I am not affiliated with or in any way make money from recommending them……

Hope I answered your questions satisfactorily.



Dec 26, 2011 at 05:59 PM
CTYankee
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p.1 #13 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


Building a website is not much different than shooting a wedding. Would you recommend a web developer learn off the internet before shooting a wedding? The results of a photographer learning web development on the fly will be about the same: bad.

Take it from someone who was a full time photographer for 4 years (and still shoots on the side) and now designs and builds websites. Hire someone. Your cost can be a few hundred for a basic Wordpress site or several thousand for a fully customizable site.

To clear up some misinformation and confusing descriptions here is a bit of a primer:
HTML - All websites are HTML. HTML is the language of the web. Think of HTML as the pixel of the internet. You can't have a website without it.

CSS - This language tells the browser how to syle the HTML on your page. Fonts, layout, colors, and much more.

PHP - Another language that allows for more functionality (forms for example)

Flash - Allows for very fancy media rich websites. However we are in a post-Flash age of the internet. HTML5 can do much of what Flash was needed for (embedded video). CSS3 and jQuery can do many of the animated effects and other 'cool' stuff. Bottom line...skip it. More trouble than its worth and even Adobe has signed off on Flash's internet decline.

Static Webpage - A document that is HTML/CSS. To change that page you must change the file. This is what others mean by "HTML" website. "Static" is the correct term.

Dynamic Webpage - Dynamic webpages/websites use a Content Management System (CMS). The CMS has templates that hold your content. You then enter the content into a form on the control panel. You can tell it what template to use for that content. This allows you to have different looking pages on your site. For your about page you'll want one template that shows text based content. For your image galleries you'll want a different template. On the control panel you'd enter the content needed for that template. The about page may just be one text field for your continent, but the image gallery would allow for multiple photo uploads, descriptions, EXIF data, etc. The CMS then displays the content automatically by merging your content with the HTML template you are using for that page.

Static websites are a pain to manage. Don't go that route.

You want a CMS. There are many good ones to choose from. Wordpress is the most popular, is fairly easy to use (relatively speaking), is very expandable, good security record, lots of free or premium templates, and will do pretty much everything you need with little customization. Others are Drupal (super powerful, but notoriously hard to use), Joomla (easiest to use, but most basic) and my CMS of choice, ExpressionEngine. However EE is not free ($300) and requires you have HTML templates and know how to "EE'ize" them (put EE tags into the proper place). Dreamweaver sometimes gets added to this group. Dreamweaver is a bloated code editor that functions as a terrible CMS. Skip it at all costs.

Hosting is a commodity. There are many good ones to choose from. Cheap and basic shared hosting (hundreds of sites on one box: Dreamhost, Bluehost, Host Gator. Faster and better dedicated or 'virtual' servers (10x more expensive and not something many photographers will need...for sites getting 100,000s of hits): Media Temple, EngineHosting.

What I would recommend...
Sign up for Bluehost. They have a nice one click Wordpress install. No need to fuss with config files and FTP. Install Wordpress then look around for a nice photography template. Installing those is a simple matter of clicking a button. Then read up on how to use Wordpress and get the most out of it. You can be done in a matter of minutes. Add some content, post some galleries, get feedback from users. Make changes as needed. If the time comes to add e-commerce you can, but best to hire someone for that. There is just too much that can go wrong and PCI compliance means you have to do it right or can get in big trouble with AMEX/Visa/MC (unlikey, but they can impose stiff fines).

A Wordpress install on a shared server will be plenty fast, secure, and feature complete for you. Just update as they are released and don't go installing 3rd party add ons willy-nilly.

I make websites from scratch. Design from the ground up. Hand code the templates. Install the CMS. Implement the CSM into the templates. Customize my CMS install (add commerce if I need it as well as other functions). The end product is much better, but takes about 30 hours for a small project (planning to launch). Add in another 500 or so to learn how to do all that and you'll see that does not make sense for you to do. Either go with a 30 minute Wordpress site, or hire someone for $10,000 to build a custom site for you.



Dec 27, 2011 at 11:45 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #14 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


Thanks all for the explanative info, it is helping to put things into context & perspective.

CTYankee wrote:
Building a website is not much different than shooting a wedding. Would you recommend a web developer learn off the internet before shooting a wedding? The results of a photographer learning web development on the fly will be about the same: bad.


+1 @ important things are not well suited for cyber-learning Uncle Bob/DIY. This is NOT the same thing as educating oneself to the difference between the plethora of template based site offerings and a $10,000 custom built site relative to which to PURCHASE (vs. an Uncle Bob / DIY) or deciding who to work with for the build.

I see this as an investment vs. a "DIY cheapie" exercise ... I just want to educate myself more so that I can make wiser investment decisions rather than simply throw money at "blind luck" swayed by self-serving salesmanship. Again, I re-iterate, this is NOT an Uncle Bob/DIY.

Trying to learn to be a progammer from an internet "primer" is NOT the goal ... aspiring to work with someone proficiently (technical knowledge level) while having a modicom of basic conceptual knowledge (i.e. my knowledge level) is the goal.

+1 @ primer ... thanks again for the detailed explanations ... they are really helping.



Dec 27, 2011 at 12:12 PM
jbregar
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p.1 #15 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


There's a lot of misinformation in some of these posts. CTYankee knows what he's talking about and saved me the trouble of correcting the mixups and misinfo.

As a professional web developer turned college professor (and sometimes wedding photog) I say you should either follow the directions to do a one-click Wordpress install (tho realize when installing Wordpress you're committing yourself to making sure your install and ALL of the plugins and templates you use are constantly updated for security reasons) on a web host OR go to Wordpress.com and pay Automattic (the company that's largely behind WP) to host everything for you and make sure everything's up to date or secure. They have all kinds of premium options... you'll at least want the custom domain option.

For the vast majority of Wordpress sites that aren't going to be extremely customized, Wordpress.com is a MUCH better option.

Also, stop worrying about the nuts and bolts of how the site is built and just hire someone you trust to set it up. Hire them in the same way you'd hire a plumber, dentist, photographer or anything else. Then tell them what you want and let them get to work. You're not going to educate yourself in any reasonable period of time to a level where you're doing anything but throwing out buzzwords aimlessly.

A bride doesn't need to know what an f-stop is or whether RAW or JPEG is better or whether you use an 85mm f/1.2L or an 85mm f/1.8 USM... you don't need to know what HTML, CMS or Wordpress are.



Dec 27, 2011 at 11:48 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #16 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


I appreciate your endorsement of CTYankee

jbregar wrote:
Also, stop worrying about the nuts and bolts of how the site is built and just hire someone you trust to set it up.


Like people trust "Uncle Bob" and GWAC's ...


If I had someone I knew and trusted ... I wouldn't be looking for a primer.


You say I don't need to know anything about it ... but you also provide multiple options/scenarios on how I might go with regard to using Wordpress. If I'm not supposed to know anything about it ... how am I supposed to make a decision regarding which route to go, i.e. web host vs. Automatic vs. "all kinds of premium options"


BTW .. what is it about Wordpress that makes it so much better than EE or Joomla or Drupal or etc. ... that I don't need to know anything about anything to make these decisions? CTYankee uses EE as his platform of choice, yet suggests using a web host "one click" method and learning WP ... your recommendation is to do the same (without a need to learn WP) or use Automatic and at least one of their "premium options". How is a person supposed to decide between these two "recommendations" without a need to know "anything"

I fully understand that I'm not going to become a programmer (end user ... yes), but advocating ignorance isn't something that I aspire toward ... particularly with something that you really don't want to backtrack/redo. I'd like to make a good decision ... and only do this once, so some education seems prudent. (BTW, timeline is 1-3 months out).


http://en.support.wordpress.com/themes/adding-new-themes/
"Because of the way WordPress.com’s technical infrastructure is designed, we are not able to support uploading of custom WordPress themes on our service."

So much for not needing to know "anything" ... I think I'll keep striving to "educate" myself a bit more.






Dec 28, 2011 at 01:42 AM
CTYankee
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p.1 #17 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


It is good to know some of the basics, but you don't need to get bogged down in the technical aspects. Here is a quick pro/con list. Note, I don't work with Wordpress currently and this is based off of what I do know, past experience, other developer feedback.

Wordpress.com site:
Pros
-simple to set up
-as secure as Wordpress can be (always up to date and stable)
-Good documentation, easy to use
Cons
-you have yoursite.wordpress.com as your domain
-bound to the limits of free wordpress.com sites (not sure what those are, but I'd never recommend this for a commercial site)

Wordpress.com Premium
Pros
-simple to set up
-as secure as Wordpress can be (always up to date and stable)
-Good documentation, easy to use
-fully custom domain name (no wordpress.com in your url)
-support people to fix/change things
Cons
-not as flexible as a third party hosted Wordpress site (may or may not be an issue)
-not free (but cheap)
-still limited to what Wordpress can do with approved add ons and templates. Not 100% customizable.

Third Party Wordpress Install (i.e. Bluehost.com one click)
Pros
-very stable, lets you know when an update is available
-you can do what you like to your Wordpress install (good or bad)
-yourdomain.com url
-very cheap ($7 a month or something like that)
-use any template you want
Cons
-no one to fix anything if it goes wrong, you need to hire someone.
-add ons you install can conflict with system updates since it is not a managed environment (i.e. making sure add ons are compatible with new versions). This can get messy since many add ons are not actively developed.
-Customizing Wordpress can be difficult and lead to issues down the road. I don't mean installing third party add-ons, rather 'hacking' add ons, the core files or the templates code to make them behave differently.

ExpressionEngine custom site:
Pros
-100% custom, no limits to what the site can do or how it looks. Think hiring a contractor and building a house vs a realtor and shopping for a house.
-Very secure, no exploited security flaws (there are security patches but no hacking issues like the others)
-Very easy to use, developer can customize your control panel to make it even easier
-super stable
-fast (built on a highly regarded framework, Code Ignitor)
-scalable, grows with you from a basic gallery site to a fully functional e-commerce site
-great developer community. Just ask a question on Twitter with #eecms and you'll see. These guys love to help people.
-Established "Pro Network" on expressionengine.com. Developers are vetted and checked out before EE lists them on their pro network. Only guys who know what they are doing and have been in the business are on there. No GWC (guy with code) hacks.
-If you know HTML and CSS you can tweak the sites look yourself. EE uses a very transparent and simple HTML based template system vs the more complex php based template system of Wordpress.
-you get some support from ExpressionEngine with a paid license.
Cons
-cost. This is the most expensive route you can take. $3,000 and up for a basic photographers site. $10,000 and up if you wanted e-commerce, photo site, blog, super fancy custom design, etc.
-you will always need a developer to make structural changes, software updates, or anything other than content changes. You could learn how to do the software updates, its not too hard. But when things don't work it can be a pain to track down which add on broke your update and if you didn't do a database backup correctly...ooops. Most developers offer this as a support service for an annual fee. Well worth it.
-not as easy to find EE developers, but the good news is most are very good.


Wordpress is a very good system and IMO is the best option for most people who don't want to spend big bucks on a website. Drupal is a huge headache to use and will almost certainly require you hire someone to get you up and running. Joomla just isn't as powerful as Wordpress and can leave you stuck with a site that can't do what you need it to.

The paid options at wordpress.com are probably the safest way to go and get what you need. The warning about custom Templates likely refers to actually hacking the php code of an existing 'approved' template. That is very common for worpress sites hosted on third party servers. Wordpress.com needs to manage things much tighter and does not allow users to hack the code.

SInce you seem techno-curious a third party install would probably work well too. A bit cheaper than wordpress.com premium and allow you to have full freedom to do what you want. If your needs are pretty basic right now and you don't need to have something you know is 100% your own design, this is the way I'd recommend.

If you have the cash and time to put into a fully custom site to make it just what you want and exclusive to you. I'd go with EE. Some developers you talk to may want to make it with Wordpress or Drupal and they can build the same site with those tools as well. Thats what they know. I never have like Drupal, very steep learning curve and not a great UI on the control panel. They've worked on it quite a bit, but EE and Wordpress are still better imo. Custom Wordpress sites are very good, but as a developer I just don't like working with Wordpress. Would you know the difference? Probably not. The same site in both EE and Wordpress would be great for you. The guys I know who used to work with Wordpress tell me they prefer EE because they spend about 30% less time working on the site when they use EE and now charge a premium if the client insists on Wordpress. This allows developers to charge their same rates, but get in some lower price points (or put more time into making the site better vs just getting it up to standard).

If you do want to look at hiring an EE developer I know of a few resources and can get you looking down the right path for people to hire.



Dec 28, 2011 at 10:27 AM
jbregar
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p.1 #18 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


Yeah, and I'd probably go with Wordpress... it really is what you know. The thing about WP is there are SO MANY plugins and templates out there that you rarely need to go completely ground up (though I often do). I've worked with EE several times in the past and always found it to be well-engineered, but a bit lacking in the management UI. I haven't looked at a current version, though. It's just really hard to argue with the gigantic development community that surrounds Wordpress. That said, EE is much better on the security front and requires a bit less of the update dance than WP does... but man, you can not beat WP's updater nowadays.

Only a masochist would go with Drupal and Joomla is so far behind the rest of the pack it's not even worth talking about. Drupal is a complete mess to build a site on. Joomla sites all look like Joomla sites. I used to use Joomla when it was called Mambo (before the split) and back then it was cool... but it's a mess under the hood and still stuck in 1999-level CMS concepts.

There are other hosted options that are aimed exclusively at photographers. None are coming to mind, but you might want to look at that option. It all depends on how much you want to get bogged down in tinkering vs. going out and making money.

I'm not "advocating ignorance"... more advocating not diving into a pool without knowing how to swim. If you're willing to learn, that's awesome... but it's going to take an incredible amount of time to go from "what's HTML" to building a fully-functional and professional web presence for your business. All that time is NOT billable and is 100% overhead (unless you're moonlighting as a web dev), so it's taking food off of the table and money out of the pocket (assuming you're running at capacity). YOU need to decide if your time is better spent doing what you're good at and can bill for. This is the same reason I employ an accountant and lawyer rather than getting my CPA, JD and bar card myself.

And a 1-3 month timeline (at least with me when I was doing web dev freelance full time) meant you need to have a contract signed and time booked. That's a pretty aggressive timeline to hire someone who has other work booked.

If you're planning on educating yourself and doing it yourself, 1-3 months is gonna be pretty hard to accomplish.



Dec 28, 2011 at 11:57 AM
CTYankee
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p.1 #19 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


jbregar wrote:
I've worked with EE several times in the past and always found it to be well-engineered, but a bit lacking in the management UI. I haven't looked at a current version, though.


The new version took huge steps in the right direction with the CP UI. It still isn't perfect, but they know that is an area of weakness and are working on it. They even hired someone to work on just that aspect of EE and nothing else. Its something of a running joke about EE, try as they might, the CP still gets the lions share of criticism. At least now its largely about the choice of pink for the accent color. There are a few add ons to customize the CP that are very lightweight and really help not just the developer, but also make it easier for the client.

v2.0 is worth looking at. The developer community alone has made 2.0 quite an impressive CMS. Guys are making a living out of the add on market which means lots of talented developers working full time to keep improving EE and therefor the tools we use to make sites. It isn't anything close to Wordpress's in terms of size, but in terms of quality it is very good. Sort of like Mac vs PC software. Quality vs quantity.

And I agree about the 1-3 month timeline. Most guys worth hiring will be hard pressed to have anything ready in 3 months if contacted right now.



Dec 28, 2011 at 12:21 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #20 · Website Primer ... Pro's & Con's ???


Thanks guys ... EXCELLENT info ... now we're cooking with gas.

+1 @ well-engineered

I'm checking into MojoMotor a bit as a possible 'prelude' to EE. Right now that makes a bit more sense to me than Wordpress does. There's a lot of cool themes out there for Wordpress, but for some reason, I have reservations @ Wordpress in the long run ... stuff I've got ZERO clue about, but it still concerns me. AND, it seems that in order to use all those "cool themes" I have to be dependent upon myself (scary ) via third party hosting.

Free & popular are always scary things to someone oriented toward "well-engineered".


I'm thinking that some of the Pro's @ custom EE would carry over well into their MM product (as a starter):
-Very secure
-Very easy to use
-super stable
-fast (built on a highly regarded framework, Code Ignitor)
-scalable, grows with you (i.e. upgrade to EE)
-great developer community.
-Established

I need to find out a bit more @ MM, but strategically, it seems like it might be a good play for the long run ... even if I give up some of the cool templates that have been developed for Wordpress short term ... using MM as my stepping stone to EE.

Any thoughts @ major Con's of MM (it'll have limits obviously) from our perspectives?

Btw ... the 1-3 month timeline isn't for me to learn all there is to know for me to do a build or anything ridiculous like that ... it's the timeline for me to make a decision @ which direction I'm going to go, i.e. my "feasability study", if you will.

Thanks again for the valuable input.

Edited on Dec 28, 2011 at 12:42 PM · View previous versions



Dec 28, 2011 at 12:28 PM
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