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Archive 2011 · FF M Mount SLR

  
 
thrice
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · FF M Mount SLR


So don't buy an M9? I used a Canon DSLR professionally, and I have used the M9 personally. I vastly prefer the M9 in many situations, including many that would typically call for a fast frame rate. I like a camera where I can see before, during and after the blackout.

Different strokes for different folks, I'm not being rude, clearly the M9 and M cameras in general aren't worth it for you, move on.

P.s. you said "overpriced" which CLEARLY implies value and the economical relationship between pricing and demand. Since they struggled to meet M9 demand for a long time, and the system (especially lenses) is flying off the shelf, I stand by my assertion that you are not quite aware of what 'overpriced' means.



Dec 10, 2011 at 07:35 AM
ricardovaste
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · FF M Mount SLR


Somebody was asking on dyxum.com about the possibility of removing the mirror from an SLT to allow for a "deeper" adapter (eg m mount). This does indeed seem a bit more "hardcore" ;-)


Dec 10, 2011 at 08:11 AM
kosmoskatten
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · FF M Mount SLR


Well, if you put it like that I can relate to it on an economic scale.

In my book, the M9 is too expensive for what it does.

It doesn't mean I don't like it, I love it. But, I could not justify the admission for my limited use for it, so I sold it at a very small loss.

Already there are a few out on the market here now that have dropped drastically in price, despite being less than a year old. With drastically I mean exactly that, they are being sold in excellent condition with all papers at 30-35% off the current price and that is quite a substantial value drop for current Leica gear. Lenses tend to hold their value though.

I think within a year or two I can afford - with that I mean justify the expense for - another M9, to have and to hold until debt us part.

Just waiting for a mint, glove handled one in box for sub $2K.



Dec 10, 2011 at 08:13 AM
SJMD
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · FF M Mount SLR


( back to the origal thought of the thread.
WOW what that person did was really pretty cool, took some guts and skill imho.



Dec 10, 2011 at 08:23 AM
artur5
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · FF M Mount SLR


But of course, this isn't a FF M mount SLR but a FF M Mount EVIL camera..


Dec 10, 2011 at 09:00 AM
h00ligan
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · FF M Mount SLR


Fine thrice. If you want to stick to that definition I'll rephrase it to be more formal

It's a very poor value proposition for a great many photographers.

99% of people reading the initial statement would take that as was meant. 68% of all statistics are made up.



Dec 10, 2011 at 09:37 AM
najibs
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · FF M Mount SLR


ken.vs.ryu wrote:
what's wrong with an m9?


It's not what most people would consider 'affordable'



Dec 10, 2011 at 09:50 AM
alexandre
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · FF M Mount SLR


h00ligan wrote:
. 68% of all statistics are made up.


ROFL
As a statistician, I must say amen!



Dec 10, 2011 at 10:09 AM
h00ligan
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · FF M Mount SLR





Dec 10, 2011 at 11:53 AM
Jochenb
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · FF M Mount SLR


thrice wrote:
So don't buy an M9? I used a Canon DSLR professionally, and I have used the M9 personally. I vastly prefer the M9 in many situations, including many that would typically call for a fast frame rate. I like a camera where I can see before, during and after the blackout.

Different strokes for different folks, I'm not being rude, clearly the M9 and M cameras in general aren't worth it for you, move on.

P.s. you said "overpriced" which CLEARLY implies value and the economical relationship between pricing and demand. Since they struggled to meet M9 demand for a long
...Show more

It seems to be a touchy subject for you.

You shouldn't draw your own conclusions and scream that people know nothing about economy.
I didn't say I don't understand Leica for their pricing. I would do the same if I owned that company. They could even sell it at a higher price.

Can't someone say "overpriced" purely based on what a camera is technically? What term should be used instead?
Why do so many leica lovers say "you buy it with your heart, not your mind"?
Is that the right way of saying it?





Dec 10, 2011 at 12:06 PM
JonasY
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · FF M Mount SLR


It's very simple, M9 is an expensive camera.


Dec 10, 2011 at 12:31 PM
alexandre
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · FF M Mount SLR


To OP: dammit! I will sell my Rokkor and take a Zuiko 50/1.2 'cause I don't have balls to shave my 5D...


Dec 10, 2011 at 10:47 PM
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · FF M Mount SLR


Reminds me of this old idea:
http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/15mm_test1.html



Dec 11, 2011 at 01:49 AM
denoir
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · FF M Mount SLR


Jochenb wrote:
Can't someone say "overpriced" purely based on what a camera is technically?


No, because there is no such thing as a price based on features. It's the market that accepts or rejects the price. Do we know what the market thinks? Well, yes we do actually. We have ebay, which has the closest thing to real market values.*

Alright, so how much do B&H and other official resellers charge for an M9? $6,995. How much do they go for on ebay? There are seven new (gray) M9s for sale with the average price of $7,607. That would indicate that the M9 is about $600 underpriced, at least on the US market.

What about a Canon 7D body for instance? B&H: $1375 Ebay average: $1310. So it's slightly overpriced. What about a NEX 5N? About $90 overpriced. A D3X? About $2,000 underpriced (!).


As for price/feature - it's a pointless metric as there is no way of independently measuring each feature. In terms of number of features any cheap P&S will significantly outdo any of the more professional cameras.

The M9 is expensive as digital cameras go, yes, but not overpriced as people are willing to pay more than the list price.


* = That's not quite true as ebay is international and the sellers take advantage of the fact that the products are not available in some parts of the world. Still, it's a decent approximation of the true market value - much closer than the list prices.



Dec 11, 2011 at 03:20 AM
Bob YILDIRAN
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · FF M Mount SLR


A project in vain because of hugely different register distances. The first thing I noticed he could not place the M-mount some 16mm deeper than the EOS mount (44.0 -27.95) although he machined out the mirror mechanism. Could be used though, with only a few collapsible lenses of Leica and alikes, but no rigid ones for longer distances. Also I wonder how he would focus it or eliminate wobble while trying to focus by extending the tube in and out or via the helicoid... Further complications will start as soon as he tries the M-mount wide angles for macro (other than macro they can not be used); even on crop sensors they cause color shift, corner smearing, vignetting etc.

(If he wanted to use Leica then there were excellent R lenses available.. No need to confuse the brains..)



Dec 11, 2011 at 03:57 AM
Jochenb
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · FF M Mount SLR


denoir wrote:
As for price/feature - it's a pointless metric as there is no way of independently measuring each feature. In terms of number of features any cheap P&S will significantly outdo any of the more professional cameras.


I'm not arguing that the price is too high market value wise, as I already said.

I'm talking about that price/feature metric you mention.
On paper it's indeed pointless, but many people have it in their head when buying something. It's a personal feeling on what something should at least have at a certain price point. Everyone has a different vision on that.
For example: when I look at the M9, I think "why does a camera of this price has such a below average LCD?" , you can't even check if you really nailed the focus which gives me the feeling I would be paying too much.
I don't care that hordes of people don't mind it, because that's not relevant for your own use.



Dec 11, 2011 at 06:26 AM
Technician
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · FF M Mount SLR


Stupid idea. Very limited usage doesn't justify killing the DSLR. Why he didn't buy M8 or M8.2 instead? They're cheaper than 5DmkII these days.


Dec 11, 2011 at 06:46 AM
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