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Archive 2011 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9
  
 
Paul Yi
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


I had Nex-5N and M9 simultaneously...
I sold M9 and got Medium Format system, and kept the Nex-5N...

Canon 20D, 5D, Nex-5N .... the revolution continues .... FF Nex .....



Dec 07, 2011 at 02:47 AM
lovinglife
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


Mescalamba wrote:
...

I think Leica owners know that there are "better cameras" than M9. They just dont care about that.

...


correct--
however, the M9 is the only FULL Frame CCD based camera of this size that accommodates M lenses ..
I am very happy to see Sony making progress in this market, but i hope they come out with a full frame sensor in future.

Denoir - Thanks for the proper comparison



Dec 07, 2011 at 02:48 AM
Jacob D
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


denoir wrote:
For NEX owners it is probably irrelevant (except for perhaps to see what some of the lenses that can be used on a NEX are really capable of). For M9 owners the NEX can be an affordable backup camera as it can mount M mount lenses. That's why I got one (decided on the C3 rather than the 5N in the end as I don't expect ever to use it and it takes up the least space).


Sure, that makes sense. To clarify my previous comment, I meant that most NEX owners who care about how close/far the NEX is from the M9 are the gearhead types, not implying that for owners of both cameras... although owning both wouldn't automatically disqualify one as a gearhead

If finances allowed I would own an M9 in a heartbeat and keep my NEX for beating up on hiking trips. Maybe Santa will be kind to me, well... perhaps not!



Dec 07, 2011 at 02:53 AM
sebboh
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


denoir wrote:
Handheld at high ISO? Seriously dude..

Here's a proper comparison, tripod, focus bracketing, timer release:

Zeiss 25/2.8 Biogon by the way..


i bet you showed this earlier and i forgot, but is there more detail in the m9 shot if you upres the crop to show the same magnification as the NEX (does the m9 come closer to challenging the lenses resolving power than the NEX)?



Dec 07, 2011 at 03:01 AM
uhoh7
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


Jacob D wrote:
As for NEX vs Leica... I really could care less. I would think most M9 users probably don't care about the NEX either. I'm not bashing on anyone for comparing the two, I just feel like it's a redundant theme that probably only a very few people actually care about and if I had to guess I think those folks would fit the description of gearhead NEX owners (or the fewer that actually own both cameras).

With respect, could not disagree more

Nex is gateway drug, first to cheap LTM/M glass, then to cheap leica/ zm. then to leica lenses.

The abiltiy to use that glass is what the nex has going it for that the 5D can never touch. It's the whole impetus behind the success of the camera--sony itself says this outright.

You act as if the M9 is unreachable. That is changing--fast. I see them go for 5200. In 3 years it's likely to be worth at least say 3.9k--prolly higher. So the actual cost of use is not as high as the buy in would have you think.

The arguement could easily be made that the M9 is THE camera to which the nex is properly compared

A year ago I thought the M9 was ridiculous. Now I scheme to finance one. Hopefully some big camera corp will come to my rescue soon with their new FF

Canon and Nikon came into being as an alternative to leica--too bad they forgot all about it. Sony is now using leica--at first by accident, to propel itself into the top tier. Total victory is right in front of them--but godzilla does not have the best eyesight


Edited on Dec 07, 2011 at 04:39 AM · View previous versions



Dec 07, 2011 at 04:27 AM
Sosua
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


Michael - those results you are showing with the NEX seem quite soft?

I used to have a 5D (and a 5D2) and the original 5D is probably the sharpest DSLR around at a pixel level. I doubt it has higher resolution than the 5N though.

I'm getting great results from my 5N, plus it has 3-4 more MP, better DR and likely better high ISO (its been a long time since I had the 5D, but remember it banding badly at 3200).

How do you focus and process your NEX shots? You should be able to make it moire at a pixel level with good lenses and technique.



Dec 07, 2011 at 04:27 AM
Ataboy
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


uhoh7 wrote:
Nex is gateway drug, first to cheap LTM/M glass, then to cheap leica/ zm. then to leica lenses.

The abiltiy to use that glass is what the nex has going it for that the 5D can never touch. It's the whole impetus behind the success of the camera--sony itself says this outright.


I agree (except for the 5D part - the Leica R and C/Y glass IMHO is equally good, if you OK with a large size). I bought NEX-5N and used leftover money to purchase Summilux 35/1.4 ASPH. Perhaps the results could be 10x better with M9, but probably not. I am pretty satisfied as is:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7031/6423213077_845c04f4c3_b.jpg

Besides, after taking this photo I also used the same camera to make HD video in excellent quality, and while purists will argue that it's a gimmick, I know for sure that it will be a lot of fun to watch years later. Of course, I could also use M9 for stills and some crappy camcorder for video.



Dec 07, 2011 at 04:47 AM
slungu
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


Ataboy wrote:
I bought NEX-5N and used leftover money to purchase Summilux 35/1.4 ASPH. Perhaps the results could be 10x better with M9, but probably not.


Huh, you are putting such an expensive lens in front of a 500EUR camera ?
No, really, I played a lot with the idea of getting a M8 in order to get to a smaller system with great lenses, but just at the right time sony came up with the NEX. I have learned that investing in lenses is a better idea than investing in cameras, at least for in the past ten years, so I am clearly supporting the idea .

Regards, Stefan



Dec 07, 2011 at 05:57 AM
denoir
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


sebboh wrote:
i bet you showed this earlier and i forgot, but is there more detail in the m9 shot if you upres the crop to show the same magnification as the NEX (does the m9 come closer to challenging the lenses resolving power than the NEX)?


No, I haven't, but I have an old comparison with the C3 which has the same sensor as the 5N:


http://peltarion.eu/img/comp/nex-m9/B_crops_us.jpg

This is upresed some 140% which is the the equivalent of a 33 megapixel image, and it does show a bit more detail than the NEX.

Conversely if I downres the NEX image to about 8 megapixel I get this:
http://peltarion.eu/img/comp/nex-m9/B_crops_ds.jpg

However, if we go back and look at the M9/5N image..
http://peltarion.eu/img/comp/m9-5n.jpg

..you can observe aliasing in a couple of places in the M9 crop. Some people can't stand that and prefer a strong anti aliasing filter to remove that at the expense of per pixel sharpness.

Having said all that, in practice it doesn't matter. The M9 shot here was taken from a tripod with focus bracketing and a timer release - very good in theory but hardly representative of a real world situation.

The thing is that one can get addicted to how things look at 100% even if if it has no real impact. Several of my all time favorite shots have slight deficiencies due to either camera shake or the use of a weaker lens. And it makes no difference whatsoever in practice. It works for the web and it works in large print. Only very close inspection - that regular people never bother with anyway - show any type of problem.

The only really good argument for it is IMO future proofing your shots. I made a post about it here with image samples but I don't think I have to repost it here.


I don't think I would have a problem with having the image quality of the latest NEX generation for all my shots. What I do have a problem with is the design of the camera and how it feels to use (admittedly a personal preference) and that it is a crop camera (I very much prefer the look you can get from full frame). The M9 is not perfect but it's the camera I'm most comfortable with now and that I really like using. I'm unhappy these days when I have to use one of my DSLRs instead for some reason and I've never warmed to the NEX. These are however all personal preferences and not really subject to objective comparisons.



Dec 07, 2011 at 06:04 AM
sebboh
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


denoir wrote:
No, I haven't, but I have an old comparison with the C3 which has the same sensor as the 5N:

This is upresed some 140% which is the the equivalent of a 33 megapixel image, and it does show a bit more detail than the NEX.


thanks! i had always figured twice the pixel density was enough to compensate for the AA filter, but i guess probably not.

denoir wrote:
Having said all that, in practice it doesn't matter. The M9 shot here was taken from a tripod with focus bracketing and a timer release - very good in theory but hardly representative of a real world situation.

The thing is that one can get addicted to how things look at 100% even if if it has no real impact. Several of my all time favorite shots have slight deficiencies due to either camera shake or the use of a weaker lens. And it makes no difference whatsoever in practice. It works for the web and it works in large print.
...Show more

+1
my favorite shots and the ones other people like are often some of my weakest technically when viewed at 100% for the same reasons. nobody can tell without blowing them up to be enormous though. because of this my interest in high end cameras is negligible and my interest in high end lenses is concentrated more on attributes that can be seen without 100% crops.



Dec 07, 2011 at 07:03 AM
 

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thrice
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


michael49 wrote:
If anyone was wondering my above rock wall example was using the Yashica 50 1.7 on the 5d and the CZJ 35 f/2.5 on the NEX.


Comparing camera bodies with different lenses of different focal lengths... really?



Dec 07, 2011 at 10:46 AM
ManWearPants
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


Can someone throw Ricoh / Pentax GXR + A12 into the frame? This could be the NEXt killer.


Dec 07, 2011 at 11:38 AM
alundeb
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


thrice wrote:
Comparing camera bodies with different lenses of different focal lengths... really?


At least he tried to equalize the FOV. Comparing smaller and larger sensors with the same focal length is very strange to me. IMO the best comparisons are at the same perspective/distance, FOV, DOF (and implicitly diffraction) and shutter speed. And of course the images enlarged to the same output size. Anything else is giving you different images.



Dec 07, 2011 at 12:00 PM
PeterGlaso
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7033/6471121347_18a1bec48d_b.jpg

NEX-5n+ 50 Lux.

I have both the M9 and the NEX-5n. I think they're both pretty cool.



Dec 07, 2011 at 12:17 PM
michael49
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


uhoh7 wrote:
....

Nex is gateway drug, first to cheap LTM/M glass, then to cheap leica/ zm. then to leica lenses.

The abiltiy to use that glass is what the nex has going it for that the 5D can never touch. It's the whole impetus behind the success of the camera--sony itself says this outright.
....


Sort of....what about Leica R lenses.

But I do agree to a point that this is what makes the NEX so appealing - the ability to use so much different glass with it - some of the old Canon FD glass I've used on my 5N has been really nice. Plus, MF using the EVF and "peaking" is a true revelation.



Dec 07, 2011 at 02:49 PM
michael49
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


thrice wrote:
Comparing camera bodies with different lenses of different focal lengths... really?


As I said - take it with a grain of salt, but it doesn't matter what lens combos I use the 5d images are always better. Not that the NEX images are bad, but the 5d images are just better.



Dec 07, 2011 at 02:51 PM
bjolly
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


michael49 wrote:
As I said - take it with a grain of salt, but it doesn't matter what lens combos I use the 5d images are always better. Not that the NEX images are bad, but the 5d images are just better.

I've got the same 2 bodies and have done the same comparisons and favored the 5d also. Some of your crops seem off though, as my 5n also gets tack sharp images. One thing worth noting is that the crop sensor will get diffraction earlier. I vaguely remember this being apparent when I started my tests at around f8 and had to open up a bit more to level the playing field. The difference I saw between the 2 bodies wasn't actually in sharpness, it was in things like color, contrast and DR. For some reason my 5d images always seemed to have more magic; better color and contrast, whereas the NEX dominated in DR. The SOOC higher contrast from the 5d images could simply be the result of the worse DR I suppose, but I had difficulty duplicating the look in post from the 5n files, and preferred the 5d's look in general.



Dec 07, 2011 at 03:06 PM
michael49
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


^ - good points.

I plan to do some more comparisons in the future, but for me they are both great cameras and both have their role. For landscapes or subjects with a lot of far away detail I still prefer the 5d, but for portraits (where detail is often less important) the 5N (with the a 50mm or 35mm) makes a great small package.....


5N with Yashica 50 1.7...
http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/photos/i-jXb5zKP/0/L/i-jXb5zKP-XL.jpg

5N with CZJ 35 f/2.4...
http://brownphotography.smugmug.com/photos/i-KBXdD5g/0/L/i-KBXdD5g-XL.jpg



Dec 07, 2011 at 03:22 PM
slungu
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


bjolly wrote:
For some reason my 5d images always seemed to have more magic; better color and contrast, whereas the NEX dominated in DR. The SOOC higher contrast from the 5d images could simply be the result of the worse DR I suppose, but I had difficulty duplicating the look in post from the 5n files, and preferred the 5d's look in general.


The NEX images will look different than those from the 5d, that is out of question. Trying to get some of the images look like the other might be a very difficult task, and might not apply to all the shooting scenarios. So, if the 5d images are more appealing, I would stick to them. I had a problem when starting out with the NEX in that my images from this one would not look at all like those from the 1Ds. Some things were better ( noise in the shadows is a terrible thing on the 1Ds, and going over ISO 800 was also not very nice ), but colors were clearly different. I had to try and get something I like out of the NEX, and am pretty satisfied with the result, but I had the "advantage" that I had sold the 1Ds :-).

Regards, Stefan



Dec 07, 2011 at 03:29 PM
Jacob D
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Nex 5N vs Leica M9


uhoh7 wrote:
With respect, could not disagree more

Nex is gateway drug, first to cheap LTM/M glass, then to cheap leica/ zm. then to leica lenses.

The abiltiy to use that glass is what the nex has going it for that the 5D can never touch. It's the whole impetus behind the success of the camera--sony itself says this outright.

You act as if the M9 is unreachable. That is changing--fast. I see them go for 5200. In 3 years it's likely to be worth at least say 3.9k--prolly higher. So the actual cost of use is not as high as the buy
...Show more


I'm not saying the M9 is unreachable or implying that at all. Whether someone can afford it or not isn't my point.


I'm thrilled with the NEX 5N, and I love my 5D too. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. I think if someone were to look at all three cameras (5D, 5N, M9) and consider what each camera does well in its own right, and what its weaknesses are it would probably make sense to own all of them. Looking at one compared to another as if they're alternatives doesn't make any sense to me as the three cameras couldn't be more different.



Dec 07, 2011 at 03:42 PM
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