Does photo use matter for what you charge?

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dyyylan
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p.1 #1 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

I've just been given my first gig where I've been asked to provide a quote for a shoot. I don't really care how much I make so that's not an issue, but I was wondering if it's typical to vary what you charge based on the intended use for the photos. In other words, the pictures might be "just" for facebook, or they might be sold to customers.

It's not a super serious shoot that I'm doing so I'd probably end up charging the same amount anyway, but I'm sure this will come up in the future with larger scale projects.

Nov 20, 2011 at 12:54 AM

Micky Bill
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p.1 #2 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

Yes it is typical for usage to be considered in commercial photography.

Nov 20, 2011 at 03:35 AM

rhyder
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p.1 #3 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

Yes.

Nov 20, 2011 at 03:48 PM

cineski
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p.1 #4 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

Absolutely. Usage is where photographers profit. It's also a good way for companies to pay fairly for the use (it's very frustrating when some companies freak when the word usage is brought up...it's for their own good and for the photographer's good). It's kinda like buying an add on TV. Why is a Super Bowl add $2-3 million and a local cable ad is in the hundreds range? Because many millions more people will see the ad on Super Bowl and potentially ad that many more people to the company's list of paying customers. If Nike is going to put a photograph you created on 40 billboards in every major metropolitan area in the US, the exploitation of your image for them to create money is much higher than a local printing shop that will maybe put an image you created in their window or flyers they send out locally. Nike will make much more money on your image than that local printer. Would you charge the printer what you charge Nike? No. Would you charge Nike what you charge the printer? No. Usage is just a fair evaluation of the exploitation of your image to create money for that company. Since you created it, usage basically grants you a part of that since your image is the inspiration for people to spend money with that company.

Edited on Nov 21, 2011 at 02:05 PM · View previous versions

Nov 20, 2011 at 04:34 PM

parsons
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p.1 #5 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

Damned right it does!!!!!!!!!!

s

Nov 20, 2011 at 05:00 PM

Sheila
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p.1 #6 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

Just remember that, unless you have arranged otherwise, YOU retain the copyright and if the images are sold on a rights managed basis, you can control how they are being used.

If they require a buyout, then that is a huge factor in your fees charged. Buyouts are not really recommended unless you are talking five figures

Sheila

Nov 21, 2011 at 08:57 AM

Mark_L
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p.1 #7 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

Usage agreements are in their interest otherwise they will be looking at a very large bill for unrestricted use rather than just paying what they need. Of course, clients who are bullies or don't hire photographers often will say 'we are paying you for pictures so they are ours so we can do what we like with them'.

Nov 24, 2011 at 12:26 AM

Genes Home
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p.1 #8 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

Mark L has a point, but it is VERY negotiable.

1. If they give you a contract that makes you an employee working for a specified rate per hour and indicate you are a working as a photographer under their umbrella, then you are a "for hire" employee and any work you produce belongs to them, lock stock and barrel. You get no copyrights. There is nothing wrong with this, as long as your contract calls out specifically how much post processing and editing you are going to be performing, and how that time will be accounted for and paid for (normally at the same rate as your actual photography and to-from transport time). In this case you should also charge a rental fee for all of your equipment. Just be sure they are paying a living wage that INCLUDES your social security, insurance, etc.
2. If they are hiring you under a normal independent business contract (the way most photographers work), you will negotiate a fixed price for your time, PLUS a fixed price for each deliverable. You have to define what those deliverables are, and be sure you can live within those constraints and still make a living wage. Usage is a MAJOR factor. One portrait of a business team to hang on the wall and publish in the annual report is pretty simply, but rights to indefiantely publish, edit, revise and even sell or use in commercial advertising is something else again - primarily becuase you are losing the ability to sell those images for those purposes yourself. Basically, you want to charge the customer for "lost opportunity costs".....most understand this and will negotiate with you on this item.

Gene

Dec 06, 2011 at 04:57 AM

elkhornsun
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p.1 #9 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

Not only the type of use but the duration of that use. One thing to sell an image for a one time use for a calendar and quite another to sell it for use on a company website or for use in advertising. Best to license the image for a specific use and specific time period.

Dec 19, 2011 at 10:48 PM

Mr Joe
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p.1 #10 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

I highly recommend John Harrington's Best Business Practices for Photographers. Not only does the book thoroughly cover how pricing works, but it gives you a lot of great examples of communicating value and negotiating rates with clients. $23 well spent.

Dec 20, 2011 at 12:45 AM

pr4photos
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p.1 #11 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

Guess it depends on where you live. In my rural local I don't think any photographer varies the charge dependant on where the images will be used. They simply wouldn't get the job if they tried that one. It just isn't in the mentality of either the photographers or the clients involved. There are too many photographers and everyone knows everyone so trying that one would soon put that photographer out of business. Shame, but that's the reality

Dec 20, 2011 at 08:28 AM

cwebster
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p.1 #12 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

pr4photos wrote:
Guess it depends on where you live. In my rural local I don't think any photographer varies the charge dependant on where the images will be used. They simply wouldn't get the job if they tried that one. It just isn't in the mentality of either the photographers or the clients involved. There are too many photographers and everyone knows everyone so trying that one would soon put that photographer out of business. Shame, but that's the reality

Then the photographers need to do some education of their clients because they are missing out on revenue.

But I understand about small business clients not wanting or needing to understand usage-based licensing, many of my clients are such. My solution is to educate them, and wrap my creative fee and license fee in a "package" price. I license my photos to my clients, and every license specifies the uses the client may make of the photos.

It's common for my clients to want photos for use on their web site only. So I sell them a "web only" package that includes my creative fee and the right to use the photos on their web site and social media only. They have to sign to acknowledge that they can't use the photo(s) in a brochure or printed ad without an additional license.

<Chas>

Dec 20, 2011 at 06:00 PM

cineski
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p.1 #13 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

The reality is, professional photography has been infiltrated by people who don't know what they're doing. Unfortunately, you're in a market where photographers short change themselves. If nobody did that....

While it is valuable to educate clients, it's more important to educate photographers.

pr4photos wrote:
Guess it depends on where you live. In my rural local I don't think any photographer varies the charge dependant on where the images will be used. They simply wouldn't get the job if they tried that one. It just isn't in the mentality of either the photographers or the clients involved. There are too many photographers and everyone knows everyone so trying that one would soon put that photographer out of business. Shame, but that's the reality

Dec 20, 2011 at 07:15 PM

markd61
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p.1 #14 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

cineski wrote:
The reality is, professional photography has been infiltrated by people who don't know what they're doing. Unfortunately, you're in a market where photographers short change themselves.

Away from major markets, we typically find no clients who have ANY familiarity with the concept of usage. They are completely convinced that the exchange of money makes your photos their private property to be used as they see fit in perpetuity. You can educate clients and photographers 'til you are blue in the face and all they are hearing is a story of "the olden days".

Of course these are the days when it seems everybody gets their music for "free".

Dec 21, 2011 at 06:14 AM

RDKirk
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p.1 #15 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

1. If they give you a contract that makes you an employee working for a specified rate per hour and indicate you are a working as a photographer under their umbrella, then you are a "for hire" employee and any work you produce belongs to them, lock stock and barrel. You get no copyrights.

This is not quite accurate. In the US, in order for the author to lose copyright by the "for hire" clause, both of two points must be satisfied:

1. The language of the written and signed contract must specifically state that it is being done for hire or the person must be a bona fide company employee (check the employment tax records).
2. The nature of the work must fall within nine specific categories (which are not common for the types of work we would contemplate in this thread).

There have been court decisions proving both conditions must be satisfied. The courts have tossed out cases where the first condition was satisfied but the nature of the work did not satisfy the second condition.

Dec 23, 2011 at 09:34 PM

RDKirk
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p.1 #16 · Does photo use matter for what you charge?

In my smallish metro area, most of my clients are small businesses with the same uniform needs. I have a standard contract that gives them perpetual license for everything except packaging, billboards, and television. Easy to understand. Those three licenses are extra, and that's also easy to understand.

Dec 23, 2011 at 09:42 PM


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