A major bike manufacturer wants one of my pictures for their calendar (which from the initial email I got, mentioned it being a "Promotional Calendar in China"). I'm waiting on details, but assuming this means it's a calendar that is included with merch, and not outright for sale. Assuming this, or the alternative is that it is for sale, either only in China or worldwide, I have to give some thought as to the monetary aspect.
Assume I do not know the circulation run for this. Is there a "best practice" for calendars that people follow for both promo and retail calendars? Fixed price versus circulation? Any tips would be appreciated! Like I say, I'm waiting to hear back from the initial inquiry with more details. Thanks.
Well still waiting to hear back from the client. I've determined from some research that a certain amount is to be charged per batch run of the print, so for example, $300/1000 calendars being issued regardless of whether it's a promotional calendar, or a calendar for retail sale. That $300 value can be derived from any number of factors such as total run (10, 100, 1000, 10000, 100000) and distribution markets. I have a couple values in mind for my use, but we'll see how things pan out.
I suggest you go to stock libraries such as Alamy or Getty and check the calculator price on a rights managed, non-exclusive basis. The last image I licensed to a calendar company in the UK (via Alamy), the license fee was $130.00. The calculator price was around twice that but these days, one accepts lower fees (through gritted teeth!). If your image is unique and a similar one cannot be found on microstocks for peanuts, then the ball is in your court. Fotoquote suggests $1,040 for both retail, or corporate but Fotoquote is a tad unrealistic in its pricing these days.
Sheila wrote:
I suggest you go to stock libraries such as Alamy or Getty and check the calculator price on a rights managed, non-exclusive basis. The last image I licensed to a calendar company in the UK (via Alamy), the license fee was $130.00. The calculator price was around twice that but these days, one accepts lower fees (through gritted teeth!). If your image is unique and a similar one cannot be found on microstocks for peanuts, then the ball is in your court. Fotoquote suggests $1,040 for both retail, or corporate but Fotoquote is a tad unrealistic in its pricing these days.
Yeah I had started looking into those resources from scouring the net. This image is 100% unique for the brand, and could not be reproduced. So I guess the ball is in my court, though I think I've come up with a reasonable price since it's a freebie calendar with credit.
Well, it is advertising for the client. So though they don't directly profit, the intent is brand promotion. Just like a magazine ad.
By "with credit", do you mean your name listed as the photographer? I would suggest that has just slightly, slightly more than NO value. Maybe like .001 cents cash value, like a coupon? How much would you pay, as part of your brand marketing plan, to have your name printed on a calendar in China?
Sounds like you have done a good job overall though. Make sure to limit the rights to the specific calander, for that year, in ONLY that market! If they decide to do a calendar in the UK, then they pay again. Thats where you start to earn more.
Well I think I am getting shafted here. I got a quote, and it was way less than it should have been, but I went with it because I'm a starving artist. They had a "budget" for 12 shots for the calendar, and their budget was less than what I would have charged for the images, period. Even with my "deal" price, it was still double what they had to spend on individual images. I also found out this is for the Chinese market only, not the US or elsewhere. Anyway, I made a VERY limited license agreement meaning they could only use it on this calendar, for this year, and not to be used elsewhere, period, end of story. Ohh well, it's beer money.
tcphoto wrote:
Sometimes it's best to simply thank them for their interest and walk away.
Yeah, that's the most sound advice, saying no. I had to do that earlier this week for a product shoot. Everyone want's stuff for little to no cost, and for commercial gigs that require some advanced setups too! It's amazing how a retail outlet can haggle to bottom dollar, far below expected value, for a service that they are making money off of.
I think this is a perfect example of Reality Vs. Forum mentality.
Sure, you can price in the usage, print run, distribution, cost of your time, depreciation on your equipment, computer time, taxes, travel, insurance, accomodation, meals, clothing allowance, parking meter cost, laundry, wear and tear on your shoe leather and all the other things people crap on about,
BUT: at the end of the day the client does'nt give a flying hoot, they will offer you what ever they are prepared to offer you and that's it.
Same as the fear of people selling their work too cheap. If you have half a clue, when did you ever suggest a price to a client and they didn't haggle or question it or flat out turn you down?
The day of digital have rendered the value of images much less than they used to be and unless your at the very top of the game with too many clients and too little time, you are always going to be at their mercy.
Myself, I ask budgets straight up. Sure they will always low ball me but you can soon see if they are remotely serious and come back with a counter offer. They will say yay or nay, may counter offer again and then you have the choice of making some money or making nothing.
And that's how simple it really is these days.
Working out fees on distribution and print runs etc is really just wasting your time. Ask what the client is prepared to pay, negotiate and accept or decline, they same as they will.
I see people saying they got shafted on what an image was worth all the time.
I don't see many saying they got good money for selling an image these days though.
The reality is that given who the bike company was, I'd have expected $15,000 ($300 per 1,000 run) since it was a rare image shot, contained the branded elements, and celebrity cyclists along side the key rider. Instead, their budget was $1000 for 12 images to put in their free promotional catalog, so I took the $150 they offered because i'm a guy who could use $150 versus nothing that they would have easily offered if I said no.
$1000 for 12 brand images for a 50,000 calendar run? Is that the reality we should expect from major brands? I'm not a pro, but I get paid gig's, so maybe I'm selling out the industry by accepting $150. Had I known that up front, I'd have posted here mentioning how much they were offering.
I agree with some of your points, in that there is a feeling that we are selling short, and that the era of digital is saturating the market. It is smart to work out fees ahead of time regardless of what your work is. The troubles of getting a negotiated price for photography is always a wild west show. A plumber usually has a flat fee for fixing your toilet, or a paper company selling bulk reams typically has an industry price, but Photography is all over the place. Trying to find information on "how much is this image worth" doesn't exist, just what some folks got for their work compared to others. So we all have a formula of where we land on pricing, though in an example like this, there are factors that are difficult to grasp. A learning experience for me, that's for sure.
I sold 14 images for a 16 month calendar seven or eight years ago to the Family Christian Book Store. They paid $750 per image back then. The calendar quality was pretty nice and the print size was large. I do not remember the total number of calendars printed.
