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Archive 2011 · How do you approach photography?
  
 
AuntiPode
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p.1 #1 · How do you approach photography?


In another thread, cgardner wrote:

"I try to make the images I take and edit as close to the way I would perceive it in person, to the extent the limitations of the medium allows."

This raises what I believe is central to why we photograph and underpins all critiques, whether we realize it or not - how ought we/do we interpret what we see?

As one datapoint: my purpose in photography is to express how I *feel* visual scenes. Image data is my paint. *I* am not a camera. I have no need to accurately capture and portray what a perfect eye would see at any given place and time. I am a human being. I bring to my photography my passions, my aspirations, my wants, my needs, my experience, my organic uniqueness, and my imagination. I photograph from a need to express myself, not, for example, to capture an accurate moment in time. Upon occasion, I do want to accurately portray a moment in time, when I feel the need. I can and do respect such a desire as a legitimate and a proper one, but it is not usually mine.

When we give and receive critiques, it is helpful to bear in mind that the person providing the critique may have a vision and artistic intent we do not share. A vision we do not share isn't wrong, but while we consider critiques from other expectations, we need to take them with a grain of salt. At the very least it helps us understand the range of visual expectations and other's preferences. I once read a suggestion that even a great artist's work won't appeal to more than a small percentage of a given population. Intent varies, Taste vary. Mood varies. Style varies. Fads come and go. There is no one *right* formula for art.

I photograph to express my feelings and vision. It sure as heck isn't to make money or to be popular. If so, I'd have given up long ago.

Why do you want to make images? Do you feel a need to express yourself? What do you want to say?
Nov 09, 2011 at 04:59 PM
GeorgeM
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p.1 #2 · How do you approach photography?


I met a fellow photographer late last week. We talked for a bit and decided to get together for coffee and discuss photography. Just got back home an hour or so ago from our hour long coffee discussion which lasted 2 1/2 hours. Good conversation.

This exact topic came up during our conversation. My take on it was that it's impossible to accurately capture what we see. As soon as we choose an Fstop we've started to interpret the scene. I understand what Chuck is saying in the quote above.

I like to think that I create an image. I choose how to compose it. That means I include some elements of reality and exclude others. Any image catured is our own interpretation of the reality presented and that's why every photographer sees things in their own light.

George
Nov 09, 2011 at 05:27 PM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #3 · How do you approach photography?


I don't have time for a proper response at the moment, that will come later. I just wanted to say that this promises to be quite an amusing discussion.

Get out your Wellies, you're going to need them.
Nov 09, 2011 at 07:35 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #4 · How do you approach photography?


Not sure why you would expect it to be an amusing discussion, most people who are passionate about their craft take it seriously, even if too seriously at times.

As to my philosophy(s), it basically falls into a few different camps:

1. On one hand there's the aspect of capturing reality via the photographic medium. There are numerous reasons why this isn't technically possible, but we still have aspirations to do the best we can at times.

2. Also, we have those occasions where we are trying to depict to others what we have seen/experienced in a way that emulates what it was like for us.

3. Sometimes we aspire to capture a moment in time for the preservation of a memory into the future.

4. Other times, we are aspiring to make a statement, project an opinion or otherwise convey a thought.

5. Then there are those times when we strive to create something different to show our unique or creative capabilites.

6. Evoking a mood, etc. etc. etc.

Much depends on what I'm striving to achieve with the intent of a photograph as to how I evaluate it. From technical to PJ to freeform expression and the myriad of other purposes, it is my mind/vision that is the start of what/why I shoot.

When critiquing, I try to take a guess at what others are trying to strive for, other times from how I might have approached it ... sometimes I guess right, other times wrong. Sometimes it is a technical perspective, other times an emotive one. And that's the thing the makes photography such a powerful and challenging medium ... it is an infinite combination of the myriad of attributes involved that is simply an extension of one's mind. How well that extension is executed ... that's the craftsmanship and mastery that can range from exquisite to crude.

In some regard (for me), a photograph is simply a means of painting for those of us who can't draw a stick man with a ruler ... so I strive to approach it the same way the masters of paint did long before photography (as we know it) was conceived. I know I'll never master it as such, but I embrace the footsteps of learning & growth as those who have mastered the preceding mediums were required to do ... it is a lifelong process, never fully perfected, perpetually evolving, yet perpetually the same ... imagery as a form of communication.
Nov 09, 2011 at 08:43 PM
cgardner
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p.1 #5 · How do you approach photography?


My approach has always been photo journalistic, not artistic and my interest more technical than driven by any inner creative mojo or desire to share my vision. One of the things which has always appealed to me about photo journalism / editorial shooting is that someone else assigns the story which presents a new challenge to find ways to tell it effectively.

I found shooting weddings boring and don't really like studio portraiture much. After about the 50th wedding it was same photos with different heads. In the studio there are only a few posing / lighting strategies which I think are the most flattering and I don't see much point in taking less flattering views for the sake of being different or to make the process less boring for me: the point of the exercise is making the subject look their best. I enjoy candid shooting more because every shot is a problem to solve and the challenge is knowing where the one spot in the room is where the subject will be in the best light at the best angle to capture them in a way that looks flattering and natural despite being carefully planned.

What has interested me most over the past ten years are the perceptual aspects of photography. There are underlying psychological and physiological reasons the magic trick of rendering 3D in a 2D image works and I found the more I understood them the better I understood how to get around the physical limitations of the reproduction process. My early experience with the zone system taught me the importance of a full tone range, Zucker taught me how to capture that same full range in color by using two flashes how to make artificial lighting look natural and "normal" as possible. My experience in reproduction taught me how poor reproduction quality can be — such as an 85 DPI halftone on newsprint — and still trick the brain into accepting the image content as real and reacting to it emotionally.

I view photographic technique as being similar to golf technique: something best learned by tuition and mentoring, practiced until the moves are instinctive; all so you can forget about technique and react effectively on an unconscious instinctive level to solve problems when shooting. I don't see technique and creativity as being mutually exclusive or learning technique a roadblock to creativity. I've known a lot of very creative people and not a single one of them ever let a lack of technical skill stand in their way. The may create technically flawed work initially both most master the tools and techniques they find they need to express themselves.

I consider the most creative part of making a photo to be finding a story to tell that others will find interesting and telling it well. When I worked in the photo labs at National Geographic I once asked an editor how the staff photographers got selected and was told, "We see thousands of portfolios from talented shooters, but the one in a thousand we hire comes with those skills, and interesting story they want to tell, and the skills to tell it beyond just snapping the photographs." I keep that in mind when I take a photo or edit someone else's. The first thing I ask is, "What is the story in this photo, how do I want the viewer to react to it, and what is most important in delivering it?" I find when I can answer that those three questions BEFORE taking the photo the necessary strategies and techniques needed to make it happen flow instinctively.

My formula is simple for any type of photo: 1) find a way to make what is most important — the focal point where I want the viewer to dwell and return to — contrast the most in tone / color/ sharpness/etc.; 2) lead the viewer compositionally to the focal point over any content / context they need to understand it, and; 3) identify and eliminate anything extraneous in the frame that distracts attention from it.

That's the easy part. Getting motivated to go out and finding interesting stories to tell is the hard part for me.


Nov 09, 2011 at 10:16 PM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #6 · How do you approach photography?


RustyBug wrote:
Not sure why you would expect it to be an amusing discussion, most people who are passionate about their craft take it seriously, even if too seriously at times.

You answered your own question. There's usually a lot of navel gazing. Also, as a general rule, there's an inverse proportion of pontification to actual talent. That's been my experience as an art school grad.
Nov 10, 2011 at 07:00 AM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #7 · How do you approach photography?


AuntiPode wrote:
When we give and receive critiques, it is helpful to bear in mind that the person providing the critique may have a vision and artistic intent we do not share. A vision we do not share isn't wrong, but while we consider critiques from other expectations, we need to take them with a grain of salt. At the very least it helps us understand the range of visual expectations and other's preferences.

Why do you want to make images? Do you feel a need to express yourself? What do you want to say?
Ok, I have a few minutes now to answer. I'll work from the bottom up.

Why do I want to make images? Two words: It's fun!

I've been hooked since I got my first camera, a Kodak Hawkeye, back in 1955, when I was five. When I got a little older, I used my dad's Zeiss Ikon folding camera that took 616 film. It had an adjustable shutter and f stops, so I had to learn a little about how that worked. I was developing film and making prints by the time I was 8. I was fascinated by the ability to capture an image to view and share with others. I'm still fascinated.

I was reading up everything I could find about photography, as well as looking at tons of photos. I became more interested in using photography as a method of expression as well as capturing the world around me. I got a job at the largest TV station in the market when I was a teenager and was able to learn more about the commercial end of photography. I was given many opportunities with both still and motion picture photography.

I applied to Art Center College and Design in Los Angeles. The application process includes a portfolio submission. I was glad to get in, since only one of every six applicants is accepted. Of the one in six, only one in three end up graduating.

Art school is an interesting place. I spent four years of having my work constantly critiqued. The critiques were extremely tough, as they should be. As students, we spent very little time nattering on about "the meaning of photography". We were just too busy creating! I'm reminded of the Henry Kaiser quote: "When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt!"

I did spend many years as a professional photographer before changing careers. When I left the profession, I promised myself that I would only photograph for my own pleasure. My photography is very personal, I'm not out to please or impress anybody. I had to do that long enough when in the business.

I agree with what you said about critiquing. I'm not a fan of manipulating other's images. Some general technical correction is tolerable, but I see too much re-interpretation, not counting images presented here for that purpose. Instead of farting around with someone else's photo, go capture your own!
Nov 10, 2011 at 10:00 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #8 · How do you approach photography?


Well, given the OP calls for introspective reflection (why we photography), such instrospective perspectives shouldn't be considered as a "self-absorbed" pontification to serve as a "cover up" for a lack of talent, but rather a proper response to the request. I'd like to hear more, from many other FM'ers, especially some lurkers or newbies that we don't typically hear from ...

Historically and classicly, a good mentor, instructor, journeyman, master, jedi, sensei, etc. will require others who aspire to improve to do such instrospective reflection. Belittling such as "navel gazing" and purporting it stereotypically indicates a lack of talent isn't something that I'd expect most students to toss back at those whom they learn from. It really applies to everything you do in life ... the more you understand why you are doing something, it fuels the direction and magnitude of your efforts and outcomes.

So, an obvious question could easily be, "Why do people pontificate?" Despite the negative connotation that you are associating to the word, its origins are admirable.

Etymology 1:
From Latin pontificatus, from pontifex (“bridge builder”), from pons (“bridge”) + facere (“make”).

One never knows who (i.e. lurkers) might benefit from such pontification ... being the bridge that facilitates a continuation of another's journey toward growth and development. If it were not for the pontification of others "making bridges" for me (photography, et al), my growth and development would be less than otherwise provided for.

Sure there are those who "jack their jaws" just because they can. But despite the fact that some people have such "self-absorbed" perspectives as you suggest, does not preclude the fact that there are people who genuinely and freely desire to foster development in others ... often times in appreciation for those who fostered their own development. I'd like to think that most of us who offer such critique (in this forum in particular) are intending to be of the "bridge maker" variety moreover than the "self-absorbed" variety.

As such, (bridge making) pontification has no direct correlation regarding one's lack of talent. Granted, it might very well be that one is spending more time "making bridges" than exhibiting their own talent by "making their own", but that can very readily be an attribute of goodwill moreover than the "cover up" for a lack of talent that you've suggested. Such a generalization statement seems to follow the way of most stereotypes ... it appears wrought with a projection of unthoughtful folly, yet easily and quickly espoused, that similarly unthoughtful persons will readily agree with.

And yes ... I've just pontificated about pontification.

BTW ... while some may have taken the path of such a prestigous art school being taught by prestiguos teachers ... I took the path of traveling the world taking pictures and studying the world, hmmm. Neither (unto itself) is an indication of talent, nor the lack of talent (which schools did Monet, Renoir and Van Gogh attend) ... and yes, it can be just for fun.

Bring on the pics ... or in this particular thread, bring on the "WHY" !!!

Edited on Nov 10, 2011 at 11:39 AM · View previous versions
Nov 10, 2011 at 10:33 AM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #9 · How do you approach photography?


RustyBug wrote:
Sure there are those who "jack their jaws" just because they can. But despite the fact that some people have such "self-absorbed" perspectives as you suggest, does not preclude the fact that there are people who genuinely and freely desire to foster development in others ... often times in appreciation for those who fostered their own development. I'd like to think that most of us who offer such critique (in this forum in particular) are of the "bridge maker" variety moreover than the "self-absorbed" variety.

Agreed.

I have fostered development in others by teaching photography off and on for over 30 years, by volunteering to judge photo contests and when I worked as a professional, I constantly had teenagers working for me as interns.

It would be nice when those who "give freely" knew WTF they are talking about. Often that is not the case. Opinions are passed along as facts. Sometimes the "knowledge" that is passed on is gained by copying and pasting from Wikipedia instead of the results of experience.

I stand by my inverse proportion observation. It's based on four years of art school, being around other professional photographers (especially at PPofA get togethers), and observing hundreds of students over many years of teaching. The truly talented photographers I've known weren't much interested in talking philosophy.
Nov 10, 2011 at 11:37 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #10 · How do you approach photography?


I would fully expect that professional photographers (PPofA, etc.) wouldn't need to talk about the philosophies of photography ... they have already got that part of it 'down pat' and are too busy making $$$.

But here, in this forum, where there are virtually NO PROFESSIONALS asking for critique, but rather mostly amateurs aspiring to learn and grow, the philosophy and pontification can be helpful to them.

MOST persons here have not had the luxury of your formal schooling and vast professional and teaching experiences, yet we aspire to help our fellow FM'ers to the extent that we can.

For me personally, it isn't the photography, talent or vision that "kicks my butt" ... it's the technicals of the digital medium that invariably interferes with achieving the vision of my mind's eye. As such, I try to evaluate whether it is a "vision" issue or a "technical" issue that is providing the hindrance to one's (mine or others) talent being fully revealed. In that regard, I appreciate input & feedback for both sides of the coin ... and aspire to offer similar feedback to those who have displayed the willingness for such by participating in this forum ... sometimes with words, sometimes with pics ... but always with a spirit of contribution ... hoping that someone finds value in it, while understanding that some won't.

Not everyone is going to like my imagery ... not everyone is going to like my philosophy, perspective or approach. But I try to not allow that to deter me from moving forward in either. I would suggest the same for everyone ... which to me, is where the significance of "WHY" comes into play.

Ours is fraught with "well-intended" disagreement, opinion and preference. If you are not strong in your own "WHY" ... then your ability to discern the utility of others input, feedback & critique is like 'blowing in the wind' at the whim of the weather. You need to be able to discern and discard, so that you can remain focused on the direction of your journey.

Your "WHY" is your compass. For professionals ... their "WHY" is usually to make $$$ (and appropriately so). For others, their "WHY" varies greatly, but despite it being seen by professionals as unnecessary philosophy (because professionals already KNOW their WHY), it really is an important attritube. This is not to suggest it is the most important attribute, for there is no single "most" important one ... just like there is no "most" important piece in a jigsaw puzzle, i.e. you need them all to fully complete the picture.

For someone enrolled in a commercial photography curriculum, the answer of "WHY" has largely been answered in advance ... i.e. to meet the needs of your client. For others who do not already know their "WHY" ... it remains important to consider it more than they may have previously done so.

My .02

BTW ... life has afforded me an opportunity to pontificate to a degree that will likely be rescinded in the upcoming months (finishing school, back to work). Knowing that this grand opportunity to learn & share as much as I have aspired to do here will not last forever, I have diligently embraced my pontifications. I hope that they have been (for the most part) well received ... even if deemed excessive at times, hopefully not for lack of talent.


Nov 10, 2011 at 12:12 PM
richdavid
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p.1 #11 · How do you approach photography?


How I approach photography, for me, is best expressed this way. I truly love the whole process of capturing "the Moment" when someone or something jumps out at me and says ......this is very special ...get the shot. In simpler terms I tend toward the actual rather than the artistic. Photography offers an unlimited array of subject matter so personal choices come in to play, from youth sports to grandchildren visits to backyard birds etc. .....just about anything you can name is this hobbyist possible target.

I'm a long time lurker and I hardly ever post anything in here for a couple reasons: 1) I'm a very slow two fingered typist. 2) I'm here to learn.

I've been able to get better and better results due primarily to those of you who give us lurkers and wanna be photographers the benefit of your knowledge and experences so very generously.To that I say..THANK YOU! A special thanks to Chuck Gardner who never fails to reach out to the newest of the new in here.

I will admit that a some of what I read here in FM is beyond my ability to comprehend and I think some of that is because the actual subject matter is two complicated for my 74 year old brain. Two often though, the actual subject
matter, gets lost in "my way is better than your way" postings. Most of the time I still find kernels of information that give me another aha moment so I remain a grateful lurker. Anyway thanks for listening, you can take off your boots now.

Rich
Nov 10, 2011 at 07:27 PM
cgardner
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p.1 #12 · How do you approach photography?


The guy in my ubiquitous and much maligned "white towel" shot is a pastor at my church....

http://super.nova.org/TP/TowelGary.jpg

Prior to his current saving souls gig his day job was flying F-16s and commanding an Air Force squadron. He was at the Pentagon on 9/11 when the plane hit, working in the national command center. He's never buzzed my house in an F-16 and doesn't even fly anymore, but I've never questioned his ability to fly, his grasp of the underlying physics and aerodynamics of flight, or his ability to solve problems he's never seen before.

I didn't wind up where I thought I would either when I was 20 and itching to be a Top Gun "pro" shooter, I just followed the interesting path life took me on and enjoyed the journey and people I met along the way who I learned from. I actually use about 5% of what I've learned over the years, but try to share 100% of it with others so I don't forget the other 95%


Nov 10, 2011 at 08:26 PM
Kaden K.
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p.1 #13 · How do you approach photography?


How do I approach photography? Simple.

I like art. I like making art. I like collecting art. I like being around art;
because there is no reason to create anything less than...
Nov 13, 2011 at 01:31 AM
Doug Maclean
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p.1 #14 · How do you approach photography?


I love moments in time.Could be an expression on a face getting good news or a bird in flight.Photography lets me capture that.Plus I am a tech weenie and like toys nothing like getting a new lens Doug
Nov 23, 2011 at 07:49 PM
Chiefdog72
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p.1 #15 · How do you approach photography?


From a long time lurker…….I would like to tell all of you that are willing to take your time sharing your vast and wide ranging experience and knowledge with us THANK YOU.

You are appreciated much more than you will ever know.
Jan 04, 2012 at 01:31 AM
oldrattler
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p.1 #16 · How do you approach photography?


I try to approach photography from two perspectives::
Henry Kaiser quote: "When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt!"
Ricky Nelson,"If you can't please everyone, please yourself"..
I have been helped tremendously on this, an other FM forums.. For that I am thankful.. But never forget that knowledge is useless unless it is shared.. I will finish with this quote (author unknown)..
“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”

Edited on Jan 12, 2012 at 06:31 PM · View previous versions
Jan 04, 2012 at 08:25 AM
RustyBug
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p.1 #17 · How do you approach photography?


oldrattler wrote:
“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”

And therein is the difference between cyber-trolls and fellow FM Members with the spirit that Fred himself aspires for FM to be.
I too, appreciate Fred and our fellow FM Members who have given much to each and all of us to create a place that we can willingly share within the context of a spirit of uplifiting helpfulness.

FM ROCKS !!!



Jan 04, 2012 at 09:47 AM
martines34
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p.1 #18 · How do you approach photography?


I find this one of the more interesting discussions the board has had in a long time.

Thanks for stirring the pot!!
Jan 04, 2012 at 09:54 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.1 #19 · How do you approach photography?


A few words by some of the greats on this subject:

"The medium of photography can record not only what the eyes see, but that which the mind's eye sees as well." Wynn Bullock

"Our sensibilities today are not fooled by the novelty of the camera process; modern men clearly feel the individual personality of each of the authors of different photographs, although made at the same time and in the same space. We feel the personality of the photographer as clearly as that of the painter, draughtsman, or printmaker. Actually, camera and darkroom manipulations are a technique, like oil, pencil, or watercolor; and, above all, the means of expression of human personality." - Edward Weston

"To photograph truthfully and effectively is to see beneath the surfaces and record the qualities of nature and humanity which live or are latent in all things. Impression is not enough. Design, style, technique, - these, too, are not enough. Art must reach further than impression or self-revelation. Art, said Alfred Stieglitz, is the affirmation of life. And life, or its eternal evidence is everywhere. Some photographers take reality as the sculptors take wood and stone and upon it impose the dominations of their own thought and spirit. Others come before reality more tenderly and a photograph to them is an instrument of love and elevation."-Ansel Adams

"Photography is an investigation of both the outer and the inner worlds. The first experiences with the camera involve looking at the world beyond the lens, trusting the instrument will 'capture' something 'seen.' The terms shoot and take are not accidental; they represent an attitude of conquest and appropriation. Only when the photographer grows into perception and creative impulse does the term make define a condition of empathy between the external and the internal events." - Ansel Adams

"While we cannot describe its appearance (the equivalent), we can define its function. When a photograph functions as an Equivalent we can say that at that moment, and for that person the photograph acts as a symbol or plays the role of a metaphor for something that is beyond the subject photographed." - Minor White

"Different levels of photography require different levels of understanding and skill. A “press the button, let George do the rest” photographer needs little or no technical knowledge of photography. A zone system photographer takes more responsibility. He visualizes before he presses the button, and afterwards calibrates for predictable print values." - Minor White

'When I have seen or sensed – I do not know which it is – the atmosphere of my subject, I try to convey that atmosphere by intensifying the elements that compose it. I lay emphasis on one aspect of my subject and I find that I can thus most effectively arrest the spectator’s attention and induce in him an emotional response to the atmosphere I have tried to convey." - Bill Brandt
Jan 12, 2012 at 06:08 PM
lylejk
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p.1 #20 · How do you approach photography?


Mainly do experimental retouching and only approach photography itself in terms of snapshots. Really enjoy and respect the true photogs out there, but I like to play more in the digital darkroom. To eaches own.


Jan 12, 2012 at 08:56 PM
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