p.1 #1 · Pricing of work? By hour or by images produced?
I need some help from the real pros of which I am not.
In an attempt to help a family member I seem to have become involved with a photographic project. I am now being asked to provide an hourly rate, the catch being that the requester does not really know what they want. The task involves outdoor city/architecture/landscape shots for a website promoting the location.
Should I quote an hourly rate or encourage them to base my compensation on a fee for the work I submit?
This is just a hobby for me and while I don't mind getting paid I would like to make sure that this is fair for everyone.
Thanks for any advice, sorry for being vague as I am a bit suprised at how this has grown.
p.1 #2 · Pricing of work? By hour or by images produced?
Several factors would go into accurately providing a quote for a professional photography job. If it were me I would want to know:
1. What exactly is the "project"? Is this for a real estate brochure or some other type of promotion?
2. Who is the client? Property owner, real estate developer, governmental agency?
3. What is the end product(s) to be produced? If some sort of printed promotional/informational material, I would need to know the market of distribution, print run, size, placement . . . do they also want web placement?
4. How many final images are to be produced.?
There is no way to provide a quote, or even decide whether a day rate or a per-setup rate is more appropriate for the job, without more details. I also need to evaluate what rental equipment will be needed. Do I need assistants, lighting (professional architecture photography requires sophisticated lighting solutions), etc.
Now, having said all that, I'm assuming that this family member is coming to you because they don't have any intention or budget to hire a real professional. It's never a good idea to do business with family when you're not fully equipped to handle the job -- the cheap always comes out expensive in the end.
If you do decide to take this on, treat it like a professional gig, not a family favor. Bid the work appropriately as any other professional would. If they balk at paying appropriate fees, then walk away.
p.1 #3 · Pricing of work? By hour or by images produced?
I think you'll get varied responses on this one but here is what I do.
I charge out my time at an hourly rate, for shooting, pre and post production and then add fixed costs for data back up, travel to the location etc. on jobs like this. The problem with a fixed fee is, clients often get your quote then figure they can add additional shots to the queue once you start shooting, thereby reducing your profit on the per shot estimate.
It is you job to estimate how long it will take you to shoot and post process the images so all in all you can give them a pretty close estimate, with the caveat that any adjustments made to the shoot will incur additional; costs, I even state that on my estimate.
Some photographers include post processing in their shooting fee, I think this is a big mistake. When I shot film any retouching done on a dye transfer print, negative or later, on a scan in PhotoShop, was always at additional fees. Granted I like most shooters back then worked very hard to get it right in camera, these days most people rely on some form of post processing. This is part of the final image process and should be added after the shooting fee as some images may require extensive work while some very little from Raw conversion.
p.1 #4 · Pricing of work? By hour or by images produced?
keithdunlop wrote:
Several factors would go into accurately providing a quote for a professional photography job. If it were me I would want to know:
1. What exactly is the "project"? Is this for a real estate brochure or some other type of promotion?
2. Who is the client? Property owner, real estate developer, governmental agency?
3. What is the end product(s) to be produced? If some sort of printed promotional/informational material, I would need to know the market of distribution, print run, size, placement . . . do they also want web placement?
4. How many final images are to be produced.?
There is no way to provide a quote, or even decide whether a day rate or a per-setup rate is more appropriate for the job, without more details. I also need to evaluate what rental equipment will be needed. Do I need assistants, lighting (professional architecture photography requires sophisticated lighting solutions), etc.
Now, having said all that, I'm assuming that this family member is coming to you because they don't have any intention or budget to hire a real professional. It's never a good idea to do business with family when you're not fully equipped to handle the job -- the cheap always comes out expensive in the end.
If you do decide to take this on, treat it like a professional gig, not a family favor. Bid the work appropriately as any other professional would. If they balk at paying appropriate fees, then walk away. ...Show more →
Thanks for the insight and clarification.
I do know some of the info you have listed. My family member actually saw one of my images, wanted to license it and one thing led to another. His company does have a budget, hence this posting. Since his company is doing work for their client, they are trying to add the cost of creating the image content into their overall contract, so in essence I would be kind of a subcontractor. The greay area is being created by the end user, they don't know what they want or at least that is what I am being told.
I intend to take it on as a professional assignment, again the reason for the post here as I have no history. I believe they want to pay me for my time, I just want to make sure everyone is happy, including me!
p.1 #5 · Pricing of work? By hour or by images produced?
JBPhotog wrote:
I think you'll get varied responses on this one but here is what I do.
I charge out my time at an hourly rate, for shooting, pre and post production and then add fixed costs for data back up, travel to the location etc. on jobs like this. The problem with a fixed fee is, clients often get your quote then figure they can add additional shots to the queue once you start shooting, thereby reducing your profit on the per shot estimate.
It is you job to estimate how long it will take you to shoot and post process the images so all in all you can give them a pretty close estimate, with the caveat that any adjustments made to the shoot will incur additional; costs, I even state that on my estimate.
Some photographers include post processing in their shooting fee, I think this is a big mistake. When I shot film any retouching done on a dye transfer print, negative or later, on a scan in PhotoShop, was always at additional fees. Granted I like most shooters back then worked very hard to get it right in camera, these days most people rely on some form of post processing. This is part of the final image process and should be added after the shooting fee as some images may require extensive work while some very little from Raw conversion....Show more →
Thanks for the comments, also very helpful to me.
I believe this would be at most an 8 hour assignment, the company I would be creating the images for is also very good with Photoshop etc., so most likely I would be giving them RAW files, unless they did not want them. I have not gotten this far into the discussion yet.
I actually shot some this weekend as samples, would anyone suggest I provide them as project ideas? Or is that not a good idea?
p.1 #7 · Pricing of work? By hour or by images produced?
beshannon wrote:
Thanks for the insight and clarification.
I do know some of the info you have listed. My family member actually saw one of my images, wanted to license it and one thing led to another. His company does have a budget, hence this posting. Since his company is doing work for their client, they are trying to add the cost of creating the image content into their overall contract, so in essence I would be kind of a subcontractor. The gray area is being created by the end user, they don't know what they want or at least that is what I am being told.
I intend to take it on as a professional assignment, again the reason for the post here as I have no history. I believe they want to pay me for my time, I just want to make sure everyone is happy, including me!...Show more →
Terrific -- sounds like you're going about this the right way.
So with a client that's somewhat indecisiveness about what they want, you will definitely want to avoid quoting the job based on your assumption that it will take "x" number of hours. Once you agree on a fee based on total hours, the client has the ability to add additional tasks that take you beyond the number of hours you originally thought it would take. I agree that it's better to provide a flat quote for a specific task(s). You can then add charges appropriately when more unexpected tasks get added to the job.
p.1 #8 · Pricing of work? By hour or by images produced?
keithdunlop wrote:
Terrific -- sounds like you're going about this the right way.
So with a client that's somewhat indecisiveness about what they want, you will definitely want to avoid quoting the job based on your assumption that it will take "x" number of hours. Once you agree on a fee based on total hours, the client has the ability to add additional tasks that take you beyond the number of hours you originally thought it would take. I agree that it's better to provide a flat quote for a specific task(s). You can then add charges appropriately when more unexpected tasks get added to the job. ...Show more →
Thanks, I agree. I am trying to get a list of subjects to be photographed so that I can do some scouting/prep. I know that there has been discussion about having someone "shadow" me as I work, not sure what the purpose of that would be.
I have a feeling, again based on creating the content, that my part would be more along the lines of a software developer and the project manager wants to pay for my time and product.
p.1 #9 · Pricing of work? By hour or by images produced?
My advice is leave it to the professionals or do it for free. The brother in law rate is like work for the government 2.5-3 times going rate for many reasons. But I must say the hobbyist kill work for the pro. And they can damage the reputation of all. If one doesn't have the skills or equipment- don't charge. So I you want to charge for it charge professionally.
From a semi-retired pro. For any that don't like my opinion- beshannon asked, and it is worth the price paid!
p.1 #10 · Pricing of work? By hour or by images produced?
For a larger job I estimate what my post processing work might be and give a 1/2 day or day rate for 8 hours. Fixed price for the finished job. This fee includes what I feel use rights should cost etc. If I would charge by the piece then the cost would be about the same in the end.
