Here's my real question (and I hope it's not a really dumb-arse question but…) I see people with cameras (some of them are even 'photographers' ) using these Sto-Fen's outdoors in the 45 degree angle as in the picture above. I don't get it…why? Indoors I get…you bounce the light upwards but also in an omni-directional way to get greater evenness in the light distribution (to alleviate 'raccoon eyes') and with the slight tilt forward, it gives a bright catch-light to a subject's eyes. However, if one is using this outdoors, is there any real benefit at all? And isn't there absolutely no logic what-so-ever to tilting the head at an angle outdoors? I mean, is there something fundamental that I'm missing here or is (seemingly) everyone I see using these outdoors doing it all wrong? Someone 'enlighten' me PLEASE!
I angle outside, whether in or out doors in my mind on camera flash is just ugly dead on. So I guess I am using it for fill. I expose for the ambiant and fill in the rest, so at a angle is really enough without that direct flash look.
Personally outdoors I think it is a total waste of light and battery power. This device requires something to bounce off. Outdoors, even when angled, my guess is 80% the light is directed in every direction in every direction other than the subject and about 20% towards the subject. I know outdoors I can get just as good light quality using direct flash.
Indoors as I stated it requires the correct conditions. It needs something to bounce off. As a stand alone in a large area such as a convention centre it is about the same as shooting outdoors.
I shoot bare flash. I always try to bounce first. If I can't I turn the flash off. If I require flash then I pull out the bracket, bump up the ISO, open up the aperture, shoot at a slower shutter speed (if the conditions permit) and shoot direct.
I had nowhere to bounce on this shot so the bracket came out. I'm sure it could have been better but I can't see how that device would have made any "significant" difference. Even if there is something to bounce off it is throwing light all over the place with the intent that some gets reflected back to the subject. Sure it works under the correct conditions but I prefer to be in control of the light. If it has has something to bounce off then so do I.
omarlyn wrote:
[1] ...if one is using this outdoors, is there any real benefit at all?
[2] And isn't there absolutely no logic what-so-ever to tilting the head at an angle outdoors?
...is (seemingly) everyone I see using these outdoors doing it all wrong?
1) Little if any benefit to the photographer. Plenty of benefit to the Omni-Bounce salesman.
2) It gets the flash a little further from the lens axis, but there are much more efficient ways of doing that.
3) Yep. They're doing it wrong.
Many people incorrectly believe that putting a frosted surface in front of the flash tube softens the light. They don't know that soft light results from a large light source in relation to the subject's size.
The name of the product -- Omni-Bounce -- says it all: it's design to send the light out omnidirectionally so it can bounce off nearby surfaces.
Typical "event" photography usage I have found the Stoffen works best when able to bounce off of surrounding ceilings/walls. Increasing flash output by 1/3 to 1/2 works well.
The Stoffen also can be used to impart a "barebulb" effect.
Outdoors, you're really looking at just a bit of fill light.
BrianO wrote:
1) Little if any benefit to the photographer. Plenty of benefit to the Omni-Bounce salesman.
2) It gets the flash a little further from the lens axis, but there are much more efficient ways of doing that.
3) Yep. They're doing it wrong.
Many people incorrectly believe that putting a frosted surface in front of the flash tube softens the light. They don't know that soft light results from a large light source in relation to the subject's size.
The name of the product -- Omni-Bounce -- says it all: it's design to send the light out omnidirectionally so it can bounce off nearby surfaces....Show more →
+1 - But there are two uses for the thing that might not be immediately apparent:
1 - Used on a remote flash with an umbrella or other modifier, it can help in "filling" the modifier. Mostly by creating off-axis light.
2 - Used in the 45 or straight up position *strictly* to reflect in the subjects eyes for a "twinkle".
kdphotography wrote:
...Typical "event" photography usage I have found the Stoffen works best when able to bounce off of surrounding ceilings/walls.
Yep. This is how is usually use mine. When shooting a bride's "getting ready" photos in a small room I'll use just my 580EX on camera, with the head straight up and the Omni-Bounce in place.
I'll get some direct light from the Sto-Fen, and bounce light from all the nearby surfaces to create broad fill.
BubbaJon wrote:
...1 - Used on a remote flash with an umbrella or other modifier, it can help in "filling" the modifier.
Yes; it's like having a barebulb strobe, or a Q-flash without reflector. You can really fill a softbox with even lighting this way.
BubbaJon wrote:
...2 - Used in the 45 or straight up position *strictly* to reflect in the subjects eyes for a "twinkle".
I never really thought about using one this way (I just use the catchlight panel on my 580EX), but if you don't have a catchlight panel, an index card, etc. you could use the Omni-Bounce, and by tilting it up you'd raise it a bit further above the lens axis.
I'd rather use a DIY scoop bounce or one of the Demb Flip-It! products, but if those aren't available...
Thankyou all for the replies…lot's of good information! Although most of the replies seem to more or less confirm my general impressions, it was good to hear how certain individuals use this item one way while others don't. One excellent use that I hadn't thought about was when using a SpeedLight in a soft box.
omarlyn wrote:
.... One excellent use that I hadn't thought about was when using a SpeedLight in a soft box.
Omar
Just a side note. I'm not a fan of those "portable" ~16" beauty dishes that are used with a speedlite, but you should use a stofen omnibounce when using them. The "barebulb" effect spreads the light much better.
kdphotography wrote:
...I'm not a fan of those "portable" ~16" beauty dishes that are used with a speedlite, but you should use a stofen omnibounce when using them. The "barebulb" effect spreads the light much better.
I use my Omni-Bounce when I use my Speedlite in a soft box, but I don't use it with my dish reflector because it has its own spreader. Two of them, actually: the translucent plastic one shown here...
I still own several Stofens from way back, but never use them now. Getting the light up higher and creating a larger light source are the key aids in making better flash shots with on camera flash. I happen to use the Demb Flip-it products, which are fairly portable, and adjustable to do bounce, mix of bounce and direct, or all direct if there is no bounce surface available. They also work for a modifier for macro. I always have at least one of the smaller ones with me when I have a flash, and nearly always use it unless I need maximum distance direct flash. Take a look at the examples on the Demb site, and see what you think.
Cliff Mautner is a great wedding photographer in the Philadelphia area. He uses a dome diffuser (his is Nikon) on a Speedlight held high on a paint pole; the dome diffuser is angled 45 degrees as you describe. He says it allows him to feather the light toward his subjects. Makes sense to me.
That is a very common and effective method. In the natural world light is typically coming down on us, not from a horizontal orientation. That is why that method makes flash look more natural. That is how we see people every day.
When you think about it we don't strap flashlights to our heads and then talk to people. Imagine how ugly that would look. Over the years I have spent a lot of time and money on trying to find the latest and greatest on camera flash diffusers. I decided to simplify my life and shoot direct with a bracket (if I can't bounce). The bracket does make a difference. It may not produce the most flattering look but if you bump up the ISO, open the aperture and choose a slow shutter speed (if applicable for the situation) you can tone down the flash, balance it with the ambient light and get acceptable results.
) using these Sto-Fen's outdoors in the 45 degree angle as in the picture above. I don't get it…why? Indoors I get…you bounce the light upwards but also in an omni-directional way to get greater evenness in the light distribution (to alleviate 'raccoon eyes') and with the slight tilt forward, it gives a bright catch-light to a subject's eyes. However, if one is using this outdoors, is there any real benefit at all? And isn't there absolutely no logic what-so-ever to tilting the head at an angle outdoors? I mean, is there something fundamental that I'm missing here or is (seemingly) everyone I see using these outdoors doing it all wrong? Someone 'enlighten' me PLEASE!