Sorry if this has been posted before - it didn't pop up in a cursory search.
A friend posted a link to this on his Facebook page. Pretty much lays out a detailed reasoning for refusing to work for free. I'm going to use it as a standard referral to all future requests for gratis work.
If anyone is having any trouble getting their head wrapped around the issue, and a candidate for the "inexperienced / gullible / sympathetic" ones, consider this:
My personal frame of reference to the point is that when a "non-profit", etc. has a fund-raiser or other event catered ... they make sure the caterer gets paid.
I really get a lot of flack when I say flat out "don't do it" to photographers in our club. The last one was a store owner in a small town that needed some shots for promotional purposes. The post listed the standard "credit" and "help a guy out". I flat asked the OP why he didn't just do it himself. he's a business owner - surely HE understands it's a business! The one before that was an animal rescue event. Now I personally support these charities - have 5 adopted cats to prove my "money" is where my mouth is But I know this organization raises money, they charge admission, they pay the caterer, they pay the venue - and yet even the other photographers recoil in horror when I say "we need to get paid too - don't do it". Apparently suggesting the photographer has to eat and needs to get paid is heresy!
Anyway - off my soapbox. Apparently folks consider photographers are all just waiting to jump at the chance to "do good" - and do it for free!
"I do not wish pee in the well from which I drink".
I read that quote about 10 years ago and have lived by it since.
I do not do cut rate photography.
I do not do spec.
I use my camera for me for free, not for others.
Last year I had a photo on the cover of an internationally distributed magazine plus a four page interior spread - I was paid for this work. I also have photo credit in the magazine.
That exposure garnered ZERO increase in web traffic and Zero new work.
Do not pee in the well from which you intend to drink. It can be painful at times to turn things down but right is right, and that is being a professional.
I get inquiries grequently from businesses wanting me to do images for them for 'crediting' and 'word of mouth marketing'. None of these business owners would ever consider giving away there time and effort for said consideration. I even asked if one of them, a car repair shop, would work on my cars (exclusive of parts) if I would tell all of my contacts about them. He thought I was joking and didn't see the relationship to what he was asking.
If anyone is having any trouble getting their head wrapped around the issue, and a candidate for the "inexperienced / gullible / sympathetic" ones, consider this:
My personal frame of reference to the point is that when a "non-profit", etc. has a fund-raiser or other event catered ... they make sure the caterer gets paid.
"Nuff said" ... pay the photographer too.
Difference between a caterer and a photographer is I don't believe there are many (any?) caterers that do it as a hobby for fun, but there are bucket loads of photographers who do it as a hobby for fun...and it might just be fun to photograph the event. You might not do it for free, but there will be plenty standing in line behind you willing to do it for free...and some of these freebees are pretty talented with great equipment.
Does it really need a dissertation that is signed by dozens of photographers? I'm not sure it's all that complicated.
I get "offers" for free work every once in a while and if I want to support the cause I'll make a photo job "donation"which may or may not be tax deductible. If I don't really care that strongly about the cause I'll charge them appropriately. It might not be full price, or it might. Depends on the client. They sometimes hired me and sometimes found someone who was on the same page as them.
Its up to you to just say no when you want to say no, and yes when you want to say yes.
Difference between a caterer and a photographer is I don't believe there are many (any?) caterers that do it as a hobby for fun, but there are bucket loads of photographers who do it as a hobby for fun...and it might just be fun to photograph the event. You might not do it for free, but there will be plenty standing in line behind you willing to do it for free...and some of these freebees are pretty talented with great equipment.
My wife absolutely loves cooking, and she frequently does cook for free for friends that need help. She's talked about doing catering, but she's well aware of the legal and business requirements...and there is zero way even though she loves cooking that she'd cook for any kind of business for free.
I know guys who absolutely love working on automobiles and have zero problems working on their friends' cars for free...but there is no way they'd work free for anyone they didn't have a personal connection with.
I know carpenters, plumbers, and electricians who gladly do work for fellow church members or Habitat homes for free. They love doing their work...but they'd never do work that would otherwise be paid for free.
There are millions of tradespeople who absolutely adore doing what they do--but they won't do it commercially for free. The reason these photographers do commercial work for free is because they simply don't put any value on their own work.
RDKirk wrote:
My wife absolutely loves cooking, and she frequently does cook for free for friends that need help. She's talked about doing catering, but she's well aware of the legal and business requirements...and there is zero way even though she loves cooking that she'd cook for any kind of business for free.
I know guys who absolutely love working on automobiles and have zero problems working on their friends' cars for free...but there is no way they'd work free for anyone they didn't have a personal connection with.
I know carpenters, plumbers, and electricians who gladly do work for fellow church members or Habitat homes for free. They love doing their work...but they'd never do work that would otherwise be paid for free.
There are millions of tradespeople who absolutely adore doing what they do--but they won't do it commercially for free. The reason these photographers do commercial work for free is because they simply don't put any value on their own work....Show more →
Maybe these photographers don't put any monetary value on their work...but they must get some value out of doing it or they would not do it, right? Not everything boils down to monetary value.
Maybe these photographers don't put any monetary value on their work...but they must get some value out of doing it or they would not do it, right? Not everything boils down to monetary value.
We're talking in this thread about professionals (of any trade) and commercial work, however, not hobbyists.
RDKirk wrote:
We're talking in this thread about professionals (of any trade) and commercial work, however, not hobbyists.
Yes, but it is the hobbyist that will be doing these things for free. RDKirk, you've said this statement many times, yet I see you posting in threads which involve GWAC shooting for free. It seems every other thread being posted involves non professionals taking away business from the professionals. It is getting harder to talk about one without involving the other...especially in the photography field.
chez wrote:
Yes, but it is the hobbyist that will be doing these things for free. RDKirk, you've said this statement many times, yet I see you posting in threads which involve GWAC shooting for free. It seems every other thread being posted involves non professionals taking away business from the professionals. It is getting harder to talk about one without involving the other...especially in the photography field.
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This thread doesn't have anything to do with GWACs shooting for free, it's about commercial users expecting professionals to shoot for free.
RDKirk wrote:
]
This thread doesn't have anything to do with GWACs shooting for free, it's about commercial users expecting professionals to shoot for free.
All I am saying is the expectation for shooting for free is being driven by the hord of hobbyist who will shoot for free, and quite a few of them deliver pretty good results.
RDKirk wrote:
]
This thread doesn't have anything to do with GWACs shooting for free, it's about commercial users expecting professionals to shoot for free.
No, there is a difference between 'expecting' and 'asking'. Just like the hobo panhandling is asking everyone for money, but he's not expecting it from all, the panhandling client will get some people to say ok and others who don't.
Seriously folks, it's not a big thing to just say no.
BubbaJon wrote:
I really get a lot of flack when I say flat out "don't do it" to photographers in our club. The last one was a store owner in a small town that needed some shots for promotional purposes. The post listed the standard "credit" and "help a guy out". I flat asked the OP why he didn't just do it himself. he's a business owner - surely HE understands it's a business! The one before that was an animal rescue event. Now I personally support these charities - have 5 adopted cats to prove my "money" is where my mouth is But I know this organization raises money, they charge admission, they pay the caterer, they pay the venue - and yet even the other photographers recoil in horror when I say "we need to get paid too - don't do it". Apparently suggesting the photographer has to eat and needs to get paid is heresy!
Anyway - off my soapbox. Apparently folks consider photographers are all just waiting to jump at the chance to "do good" - and do it for free!...Show more →
Unfortunately WE all suffer due to anyone with a cheap digital camera who calls themselves a photographer and is willing to shoot for free. "Professional" is a wide and varied title only defined in that one is paid for their craft. The levels of "professional" are as wide as the Grand Canyon.
No, there is a difference between 'expecting' and 'asking'. Just like the hobo panhandling is asking everyone for money, but he's not expecting it from all, the panhandling client will get some people to say ok and others who don't.
Actually, it's more like the corporation owner expecting his workers to work for free. We're not talking about people with no money...we're talking about the people who have the money, who know they're going to pay everyone else except the writers and the photographers. The receptionist gets paid--and nobody is even going to expect her to pick up the phone for free. Federal law even mandates that interns who do real work get paid.
RDKirk wrote:
Actually, it's more like the corporation owner expecting his workers to work for free. We're not talking about people with no money...we're talking about the people who have the money, who know they're going to pay everyone else except the writers and the photographers. The receptionist gets paid--and nobody is even going to expect her to pick up the phone for free. Federal law even mandates that interns who do real work get paid.
The corporation owner would love to have employees work for free. I'd like assistants to work for free!
Receptionsists don't have a "passion" for recepting, and don't do it as a hobby so there are not many free ones to choose from, unlike photog and writers.
If you are regularly running into clients who "expect" you to work for free it's time to look for other kinds of clients.
I have three close friends who are photographers, one of them seems to regularly doing work for free or next to free. He's been a photographer for 15 years but has a knack for working for free for legit clients
Although the "write up" was well reasoned - it sounded a lot like whining.
If you don't want to shoot for free, simply tell people and move along. I would be truly amazed if somebody who asked you to shoot for free took the time to read more than the first paragraph. I would be even more shocked if they read the whole thing, and then decided to pay somebody to shoot...
All of the "signatures" beneath sort of gives one the feeling of "us vs them". Like us photographers have to band together to survive. BS The market will do its thing regardless of how many ASMP/WPPI/etc. meetings you go to.
Create a good or service people are willing to pay for. If you can't or don't want to, find something else to do.
But I know this organization raises money, they charge admission, they pay the caterer, they pay the venue - and yet even the other photographers recoil in horror when I say "we need to get paid too - don't do it". Apparently suggesting the photographer has to eat and needs to get paid is heresy!
