Need some advice. I have had the 60D for a couple of months. Love it with all my lenses (EFS 18-135, Tamron 70-300 and EF 50 1.8 II). Last month, I bought the Rokinon 85 1.4 manual. I love it. But MF is frustrating. I am shortsighted and have had glasses for the past 40 years. As a result, my eyes appear to be very accomodating. That is, the image in the viewfinder appears to be in focus for a much wider range than the DOF of the lens realistically permits. So my hit rate, even when I manually bracket focus is as low as 1 in 10. Maybe only 1 in 100 is a real keeper (with focus, pose, etc.)
So, now you see my dilemma. I love the lens, its color, razor thin DOF, the bokeh. But even for posed pictures, the success rate is so low that I am close to giving up on MF. I have toyed with the idea of a split-prism screen like my AE-1, 25 years ago, but am not brave enough to fiddle with the focusing screen on my new 60D. I have even thought about the dandelion for focus confirmation (though I heard that there is not enuf clearance behind the Roki to fit the chip).
I would love to hear opinions, advice and words of encouragement. Let me have it.
Thanks.
CR.
Have you tried live view manual focus for the "posed" shots? It actually works quite well. If you are still having trouble after that, why not try out the Canon 85 1.8? It will autofocus and it's got a friendly price with great image quality to back it up.
at 2.0 or 1.4, you probably need a different focus screen to be able to focus accurately. Normal ones are optimized for brightness, not focus accuracy, at least that's the case on the 5D Mk II. I use several MF lenses, including the Rokinon 85mm 1.4 on my 5D Mk II, I have no problem focus it accurately and relatively quickly using the EG-S screen at f2, at 1.4 I'll need to be pretty careful.
Live view doesn't quite work for me. What I mean is, yes, if I use live view, and zoom, I can get fairly good focus. But the whole process just doesn't work for me. First I zoom in to get focus, and I then zoom out for framing, and then after I click, I have to review and zoom to check if I got the shot. Its just too cumbersome, and somehow unnatural. Live view is not why I got a dSLR.
I only MF with Canon lenses, but the green focus confirm light works with my lenses when manually focusing. I don't know if it will work with your new lens, but it might be worth giving it a try to see what happens.
From your comments, you probably should consider the Canon 85 1.8.
cr3ddy wrote:
Live view doesn't quite work for me. What I mean is, yes, if I use live view, and zoom, I can get fairly good focus. But the whole process just doesn't work for me. First I zoom in to get focus, and I then zoom out for framing, and then after I click, I have to review and zoom to check if I got the shot. Its just too cumbersome, and somehow unnatural. Live view is not why I got a dSLR.
I guess I need to be more patient.
Then get another lens, with Autofocus capability... or put up with the slower process of live view. Live view is the only thing that's worked for me, since it can give me a "magnified" view, I can easily verify focus.... even then, it's not perfect at full open aperture.
That is, the image in the viewfinder appears to be in focus for a much wider range than the DOF of the lens realistically permits.
I have toyed with the idea of a split-prism screen like my AE-1, 25 years ago, but am not brave enough to fiddle with the focusing screen on my new 60D. I
I would love to hear opinions, advice and words of encouragement. Let me have it.
Thanks.
CR.
the 60D has user swappable focus screens. Its very easy to do (not scary at all) get yourself an 'S' screen (Ef-s I think) . its a much better screen for MF . it shows the DOF (or lack of) much more accuratly
I think you should really learn about how to use Live View as your work flow.
I have been using live view since it was first out on 1Dmk3 and Xsi bodies. Once you get use to the sequence, it is the best tool for the DSLR with manual focus lens. I have lots of manual focus lens which I started out with just view finder when 5D classic was just released in 2005.
cr3ddy wrote:
I have even thought about the dandelion for focus confirmation (though I heard that there is not enuf clearance behind the Roki to fit the chip).
CR.
Hi,
I have the Roki and mounted the EMF chip earlier this year, no problems on any of my EOS bodies. I will post some photos early this evening, with the mounting and test shots.
Ian.Dobinson wrote:
the 60D has user swappable focus screens. Its very easy to do (not scary at all) get yourself an 'S' screen (Ef-s I think) . its a much better screen for MF . it shows the DOF (or lack of) much more accuratly
I am worried that after the screen is swapped, my slower lenses will not autofocus properly.
I have the 85mm Roki on a 5D. I had no problem focussing with the standard screen, but i have good eyesight (no glasses). I did upgrade to the EE-S screen and it is an improvement, but i think fundamentally you need to have a decent big VF to use the lens: I tried to use the lens on a Rebel also, but that was a completely hopeless exercise.
I have this AF confirm chip: http://store.tagotech.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_80&products_id=139 and it works well. Its not perfect though, as the camera registers "in focus" for quite a wide window of focus distance. I'm pretty sure this is the fault of the camera, not the chip. Note the chip can be programmed with an AF confirm offset which compensates for lens/body variations like the manual adjustment (MA) on some bodies.
In general i use the confirm light to get me close, but ultimately i rely on the VF.
I have the 60D, ef-s focusing screen, and the Rokinon 85. I also glued a cheap ebay focusing confirmation chip on the lens (I did spring to get the chip set to 85/f1.4). The process I used was:
1. Removed the mount so I didn't get glue on the lens elements (only a few screws hold it in).
2. Cut up an old credit card to use as a shim to get the chip to the right height (ended up using 2 layer of plastic under the chip). Scraped the mylar coating off the plastic.
3. Used superglue to hold the chip and plastic shims together.
4. Carefully studied the chip alignment next to a Canon lens, put superglue on the bottom layer and pressed it into place.
5. Put the mount back on the lens.
6. Carefully put the lens on the camera and verified everything worked
7. Took the lens off and used epoxy putty around the edges of the chip to secure the chip more firmly.
8. Used a black sharpie to darken the light gray epoxy once it dried.
Total time was about 30 minutes.
I'm able to focus manually with just the screen, but the AF confirmation is a nice aid.
As far as autofocus on your slower lenses, my understanding is that the AF system does not use the focusing screen at all.
cr3ddy wrote:
I am worried that after the screen is swapped, my slower lenses will not autofocus properly.
The cameras' autofocus isn't affected by the screen at all, that process happens before the screen. Metering on the other hand can be mildly affected, as the meter is in the penta-prism above the screen. That said, in 5 years of using the EC-b (split) for my 1 Series cameras, I have never lost an image to bad metering. I'm not sure what screen gives you the split for the 60D, but get one, if you were used to your AE-1 viewfinder, it will be like seeing an old friend again.
Ok, just to follow up - some pictures of the chip on the lens. The white "lever" in some shots is a mounting alignment tool which comes with the chip. It is very useful.
To mount i cut up an old credit card to use as a shim/spacer. Adhesion is with a special sort of double sided sticky tape i use in the lab to mount electron microscope samples. I used it because it is more sticky than normal tape, it is also maybe a bit thicker. In total three layers of tape were needed to get the spacing right for the chip to contact the camera.
Apologies for the not great image quality - i did it handheld at max iso.
XsigmaSD wrote:
The cameras' autofocus isn't affected by the screen at all, that process happens before the screen. Metering on the other hand can be mildly affected, as the meter is in the penta-prism above the screen. That said, in 5 years of using the EC-b (split) for my 1 Series cameras, I have never lost an image to bad metering. I'm not sure what screen gives you the split for the 60D, but get one, if you were used to your AE-1 viewfinder, it will be like seeing an old friend again.
Correct AF is done in the base of the camera , some of the light passes thru the first mirror and onto another mirror which directs it towards the Phase chip in the base.
As for metering: The bodies that have user swapable screens have a menue option that you select the screen used. This compensates for the difference in screens to get your metering bsck to accurate .
even if you manage to chip your lens I'd still want a decent MF screen in the camera.
1: to be able to check that the focus is correct.
2: If your MF'ing, why tie yourself to the AF points in camera. (you can get a pretty decent fast AFing 85/1.8 if your going to do that ). Why focus & recompose when you can just focus.
3. Even whith a proper Canon lens that comunicates really well. when you MF you can get a little latitude where the AF system tells you its in focus but its not quite
Agreed! the precision focusing screen is a great help indeed! installing/swapping it is also very easy (atleast on the 5D2 as I've experienced). The custom function related to the focus screen variant takes care of metering.
IMO if the subject is patient enough, manual focusing has been very interesting for me. Somehow lets me get more closely connected to the composition and overall experience of taking a picture.
