p.2 #1 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
pentool wrote:
i've done some reading regarding the sync speed and now i understand it's up to the camera not the flash so that i can't win.
as for why i wanted to sync faster than 1/250 is for different looks mainly. like during the peak sunshine hours, i dont like using f22 to get the sun light down in portrait shoots. its too much details and too sharp for my liking. i guess i could use ND filters on my lens but that'd mean i need multiple to cover all my lenses - which is probably i will do.
as for budget let's just say the Eli RX line is my max. but could they be used with the Vagabond Minis?...Show more →
As for sync speed, you might be able to squeeze out a bit more sync speed using a PocketWizard TT1/TT5's HyperSync feature. It got me to a clean 1/400.
Other than that, you will have to go with ND filters and flash power.
pentool wrote:
everyone knows the quality of the AB's, there's no secret. which is why they're cheap. they're perfect for the price point. you cant ask for more. they have served me well, as well just not fire on a job.
my reason to switch up is the build quality, the mounts, the tilt lock, the color consistency, and the modifiers.
If you find the Elinchrom mount to be better, then I think the RX line is a good fit for you. As others have mentioned, Elinchrom has some great modifiers and they keep coming out with new ones (such as the upcoming 60" indirect deep octa).
As mentioned before, I switched from Eli to Profoto due to mount, interface, build quality.
p.2 #2 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
pentool wrote:
as for why i wanted to sync faster than 1/250 is for different looks mainly. like during the peak sunshine hours, i dont like using f22 to get the sun light down in portrait shoots.
For those times, buy a Canon G12 and use high shutter speeds w/ that and your ABs (not Einsteins). Too bad you're a Canon user or I'd suggest looking at the D40/D60/D70...they all use electronic (not mechanical) shutters IIRC, so you can sync faster than 1/1000 w/ cybersync triggers...
p.2 #3 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
kenyee wrote:
For those times, buy a Canon G12 and use high shutter speeds w/ that and your ABs (not Einsteins). Too bad you're a Canon user or I'd suggest looking at the D40/D60/D70...they all use electronic (not mechanical) shutters IIRC, so you can sync faster than 1/1000 w/ cybersync triggers...
I have a D60 -- it does not have electronic leaf shutter. Max sync on D60 is 1/180.
p.2 #4 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
frugivore wrote:
I found this article from 2002 far more informative and credible than your paragraph above. The second half discusses the AlienBees units and why they are a great design:
DId you come to the conclusion that the AlienBees were "designed poorly" by yourself based on the omission of the fundamentally essential isolation transformer? If not, then please share with us your source of kool-aid provider so that we can steer clear.
Yes, please look around and read and tell us. Can you give us an accurate failure rate for each product? Can you also give us an accurate failure rate of all other manufacturers' products so that we can compare? Otherwise, your vagueness doesn't help anyone, does it?
The company improved their products. I think that's great. In hindsight, you can say that about every product that had an imperfection.
Now you just sound like you have a vendetta against the man. If you really want to be credible, I think you should stick to the discussion about studio lights rather than trying to start an anti-PCB campaign....Show more →
Drink buddy drink... Your responses are pretty lame and really not worth my time. I gave my opinion, you gave yours, so be it. If you want to drink, be my guest but if you want to find out the quality of his work, just go to his own forums board and read all the problems people have with his equipment.
p.2 #5 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
By the way, that is a pretty good website but it is talking about its lack of a step up transformer, not isolation which by using voltage doublers explains why their is a lack of consistancy in light output with a Alien Bee. Without the use of isolation and voltage regulators, which I do not see any in those pictures since this IS an analog setup, the use of a cascading multiplier will own amplify the signal that is present. The "CONTROL" of the light output is really nothing more than a variable RC filter so it doesn't care WHAT the signal is coming in.
BTW, electronics aren't a hobby or a side job for me. This is what I have done for 14 years now as my real job.
p.2 #6 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
pentool wrote:
i've done some reading regarding the sync speed and now i understand it's up to the camera not the flash so that i can't win.
as for why i wanted to sync faster than 1/250 is for different looks mainly. like during the peak sunshine hours, i dont like using f22 to get the sun light down in portrait shoots. its too much details and too sharp for my liking. i guess i could use ND filters on my lens but that'd mean i need multiple to cover all my lenses - which is probably i will do.
as for budget let's just say the Eli RX line is my max. but could they be used with the Vagabond Minis?...Show more →
BINGO.. ND filters work great and can save you money. Instead of buying multiple ones. By the largest you have and step down rings. It can save you some money. Keep your bees, for digital shooters it is easy to compensate for their flaws in lightroom/photoshop. Unless you are shooting and turning the photos over instantly, it only takes a couple seconds to correct for their color and exposure.
p.2 #7 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
kenyee wrote:
For those times, buy a Canon G12 and use high shutter speeds w/ that and your ABs (not Einsteins). Too bad you're a Canon user or I'd suggest looking at the D40/D60/D70...they all use electronic (not mechanical) shutters IIRC, so you can sync faster than 1/1000 w/ cybersync triggers...
Huh? The G12 has a 1/250 sync speed, just like the rest of Canon DSLRs.
p.2 #8 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
kenski wrote:
Huh? The G12 has a 1/250 sync speed, just like the rest of Canon DSLRs.
This is incorrect. The G-Series uses a CCD sensor and electronic shutter, which means it can sync at pretty much any speed depending on other factors such as flash duration and wireless sync delay.
p.2 #9 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
finkelstein wrote:
This is incorrect. The G-Series uses a CCD sensor and electronic shutter, which means it can sync at pretty much any speed depending on other factors such as flash duration and wireless sync delay.
You know, I think your right. I know I have the G10 and read in the book something about 1/250 as sync speed but that makes sense.
p.2 #10 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
kenski wrote:
Huh? The G12 has a 1/250 sync speed, just like the rest of Canon DSLRs.
P&S pretty much all have electronic shutters...there's no mirror box...there's no mechanical shutter. It's the CCD controlling when light comes in.
On the topic of the RC circuit to reduce output, a lot of packs/strobes do that AFAIK. Speedotron's variator dial does that IIRC. The other dials that control ratios switch entire capacitor circuits. The variator technique is less accurate/optimal, but most will do this as a compromise to keep costs down. The WL1600 does the capacitor bank switching technique (the 1/4 power button). Pack systems have a lot more banks of capacitors for different power levels (a big reason they cost a lot and weigh a ton )
p.s., did chip design for a while before that work dried up here, but never was into the analog stuff...wayyy before my time
p.2 #11 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
Most of the higher ends use variable transistors and regulators in the control section for accurate control of the output.
Yeah well the equipment I work on is 40's technology and I actually use a few tubes still. We did get a solid state conversion for part of the tube assembly and let me tell you how noisy our wave guides were AFTER we converted to Solid State. We had to replace almost every gasket seal down the line and couldn't believe how the tubes just didn't care. You should see the mainframe computer I have to deal with. Ughhh....
p.2 #12 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
Nonsense. The flash-to-flash output from an Alien Bee (and from any reputable modern design) is far more consistent than most traditional analog units. If you get a variation of more than 0.1 f-stop between flashes, your unit is probably broken.
I'm not going to try to reverse-engineer an Alien Bee, but the circuitry is far more than " a variable RC filter", whatever you mean by that. Buff's latest designs use an IGBT in a PWM regulator circuit for "quenching" the flash tube output to maintain consistent color temperature down to very low levels. I don't know what they used to control output in the (older) Alien Bees. A power MOSFET in the regulator circuit, perhaps? But, whatever the design specifics, all those power semiconductors and IC's on the board aren't there just for decoration.
Al
Edit: a few other posts came in while I was composing my last message, so my reply is out of sequence. I was replying to the earlier poster that tried to explain why AB's might give inconsistent output. Sorry if I seemed to be responding to one of the more reasonable subsequent posts in the thread.
p.2 #14 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
Fair enough. All but the newest/most sophisticated monolights (from most manufacturers) have significant color shifts when you reduce the power below about 1/4 or 1/8.
It seems that a lot of people make the mistake of buying more powerful lights than they need. In a real world studio portrait situation, you usually want only a few 10's of watt-seconds for hair and accent lights. If all you have are 800WS lights, that means you're running some of your lights at or near their minimum power setting, where you get the worst color shift.
p.2 #15 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
From my use of White Lighting ultras in the past, the color temperature and output power change from shot to shot at the same power level. The lights had the same problem at any power level. I used them for formals at weddings and when going though several hundred images all shot at the same time and power level, none of the images would have the same exposure and white balance. Because of this I would have to correct each image for white balance and exposure.
That is why I no longer use any Buff lighting and switched to Profoto Pro B2 packs and heads.
p.2 #16 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
aborr wrote:
Nonsense. The flash-to-flash output from an Alien Bee (and from any reputable modern design) is far more consistent than most traditional analog units. If you get a variation of more than 0.1 f-stop between flashes, your unit is probably broken.
I'm not going to try to reverse-engineer an Alien Bee, but the circuitry is far more than " a variable RC filter", whatever you mean by that. Buff's latest designs use an IGBT in a PWM regulator circuit for "quenching" the flash tube output to maintain consistent color temperature down to very low levels. I don't know what they used to control output in the (older) Alien Bees. A power MOSFET in the regulator circuit, perhaps? But, whatever the design specifics, all those power semiconductors and IC's on the board aren't there just for decoration.
Al
Edit: a few other posts came in while I was composing my last message, so my reply is out of sequence. I was replying to the earlier poster that tried to explain why AB's might give inconsistent output. Sorry if I seemed to be responding to one of the more reasonable subsequent posts in the thread. ...Show more →
HAHAHAH, Are you kidding me? How can you CHIME in and say "the circuitry is far more than " a variable RC filter", whatever you mean by that" if you do not even know what that means. Do you even know what IGBT or PWM means and what it DOES without looking it up, I do... BTW, RC stands for Resistor/Capacitor which is the basic of basic in AC theory. His design is 8th grade basic AC theory at its best but it works. It will not compete with the higher end strobes but for people who do not care about consistancy, it will work day in and day out without a problem. The reason why people are drawn to them is the price. You can not beat the price for what they do but you are lacking in some areas compared to higher end lights. If you starting out, they are great! If you want a light to bounce around with you in the back of your car for location shoots, sure why not! If your looking for consistant color and power, might want to try something alittle better.
I know NOTHING about his Einsteins but I willing to be it wasn't "HIS" design. Im sure he had someone else design it for him but that doesn't matter. As long as it performs and lasts, who cares.
p.2 #17 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
Im not going to sit here and debate this anymore as we have gotten of track of the OP. this is one of the things I hate most about these boards and I am guilty of it myself. Im done. If you want to argue this further, please, PM me.
As for the OP, keep your bees for now, buy some ND filters and be happy. Unless you plan on doing high speed photography, no need sync past 1/250 really. 1/250 is a good general shutter speed for everyday photography.
p.2 #18 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
dahicks wrote:
From my use of White Lighting ultras in the past, the color temperature and output power change from shot to shot at the same power level. The lights had the same problem at any power level. I used them for formals at weddings and when going though several hundred images all shot at the same time and power level, none of the images would have the same exposure and white balance. Because of this I would have to correct each image for white balance and exposure.
That is why I no longer use any Buff lighting and switched to Profoto Pro B2 packs and heads....Show more →
I have little doubt that switching from an older designed "monolight" product to a newer designed "pack & heads" product has yielded a different output consistency. The size of the pack affords for different components/design than can be put into a monolight. It really isn't an apples to apples transition. Something the OP should probably factor into his decision making as well ... i.e. "pack & heads" vs. "monolights".
To me, ASSUMING White Lightning (which I used in 1990) is akin to Alien Bees is akin to Einstein really is kind of like assuming that because you drove a '66 Impala ... a '99 Malibu and '11 Camaro or '11 Volt (okay, maybe not THAT MUCH diff) will perform likewise. Same MFR, different generations of product design ... making that assumtion is not the same as really making an evaluation and comparison of the current product (i.e. Einstein) that is being referred to / recommended / suggested to evalutate.
I'm not saying that Einstein (which I have not yet used) is the only way to go ... but the basis for running it down (as presented) is on the performance of a different generation of an older product (which btw will be discontinued) to a totally different (pack & heads) design approach. I get that people may not be happy with PCB or previous PCB products as they were seen more as an 'affordable' option ... and don't want to go down that road again, fearing a repeat (half-empty) vs. an improved, redesigned, paradigm shift in approach (half-full).
To me, the Einstein makes a lot of sense (IGBT circuitry / color mode / etc.) and it is on my 'future purchase' list ... but my reasons are for my workflow, so the OP should evaluate for his needs rather than what I think will work for my needs.
It just seems that the Einstein has much more going for it than either the Bees or White Lightning did. I'm not overly enthused by the reduced power color shift of my AB400 and I'm not trying to present as a "PCB fan-boy", but just from a "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater." perspective. My AB400 does not deter me from the Einstein ...as I recognize they are two very different product designs and really have little / no basis for assumptive comparison. AFAIK, there really is no other product anywhere to directly compare the Einstein with (i.e. IGBT circuitry monolight). From that, it might be worth a look for the OP, before he jumps ship ... which is certainly an option he would retain as well.
NOTE: I've also seen color shift from 'shot to shot' with my AB400 when shooting faster sequences than full recycle time requires. IIRC ... PCB's design will let you shoot before full recycle is achieved (i..e. imperfect light is better than 'no light, missed the shot' philosophy), so be aware that this is not a flaw of inconsistency, but can be the result of an operator choice to overshoot the recycle times. This is another area where the IGBT circuitry / design of the Einstein might be helpful as well (color mode vs. action mode user option).
p.2 #19 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
I picked up two of the Einstein Monolights, and as far as I can tell---they are indeed a better light than anything that the Alien Bee line has to offer. It's a step up for sure. Quality of build is a step up as well. There are definitely better lights available, but at a much higher price point. The Einstein is an ideal "bridge" light.
The AB line is perfect for what it is with all its quirks and inconsistencies. It remains a good bang for the buck light, even with its sometimes inconsistent power output, color shifts, cheap umbrella attachment and sometimes annoying balcar mounts. It's still great for that quick on location portrait session---not a care in the world if the light fell over or took a dump in the ocean. At its price-point, no tears were shed for errant damage.
I'm still putting the Einsteins through their paces, and so far so good. Perfect light to have "on the way to something better" sometime in the future.
p.2 #20 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
aborr wrote:
All but the newest/most sophisticated monolights (from most manufacturers) have significant color shifts when you reduce the power below about 1/4 or 1/8.
This is also probably why the variator dial (fancy name for varistor in an RC circuit) on Speedo packs is limited to 1/4 range (IIRC). After that point, you had to use a different switch to go to a new bank of capacitors. I know that if you did use the variator instead of bank switching, you'd lose consistency.
I think we're so far off now that the OP has stopped responding because he has no clue what we're talking about....
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