p.1 #1 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
so i feel like i need to move on from the alienbees. they've been great but i think i hit the max potentials. can you guys pls point me to a direction for my uprgade transition. still keeping the budget in mind, i'd like the next best bang for my buck.
here are somethings i'd like to implement if possible. i have some vagabond minis, and some pcb sybersyncs.
here are some things i'm looking at in a strobe. more consistent light output. have about equal power output as my B800, and B1600. being able to sync faster then 1/250th. and if possible dial it at very low outputs. and obviously good light modifiers.
im looking at elichromes because of their light modifiers. but im not sure which line to look at.
how about the einsteins? thanks in advance!
p.1 #2 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
pentool wrote:
so i feel like i need to move on from the alienbees. they've been great but i think i hit the max potentials. can you guys pls point me to a direction for my uprgade transition. still keeping the budget in mind, i'd like the next best bang for my buck.
here are somethings i'd like to implement if possible. i have some vagabond minis, and some pcb sybersyncs.
here are some things i'm looking at in a strobe. more consistent light output. have about equal power output as my B800, and B1600. being able to sync faster then 1/250th. and if possible dial it at very low outputs. and obviously good light modifiers.
im looking at elichromes because of their light modifiers. but im not sure which line to look at.
how about the einsteins? thanks in advance! ...Show more →
First of all, sync speed is mostly defined by your camera and not the strobe you use.
While I'm not a big fan of both PCB or the Einstein build, you should probably look at them first for the simple fact that you have modifiers already and it pretty much has everything you mentioned.
p.1 #3 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
I know NOTHING about alien bees modifiers but I know I bought all my modifiers with the removable speedrings for a reason. I can go out and buy a $10 speed ring flange and be able to use it on another light even though Ive had Photogenics for awhile now and do not see me switching anytime soon.
The only way you are going to increase you sync speed is by picking up some canon flashes but I will ask you the same question I ask everyone. Why do you need super fast sync speed and what speed do you want to sync at?
p.1 #4 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
pentool wrote:
here are some things i'm looking at in a strobe. more consistent light output. have about equal power output as my B800, and B1600. being able to sync faster then 1/250th. and if possible dial it at very low outputs. and obviously good light modifiers.
im looking at elichromes because of their light modifiers. but im not sure which line to look at. how about the einsteins? thanks in advance!
Your B800 and 1600 don't have consistant light output? Could you describe more detail?
I ask as there are hords of folks that use and recommend these lights.
As a reference, here's what some more expensive brands/models specify:
Bowens 500Pro: 5600K ±300K (+/- 5%)
Broncolor Minicom 80 Voltage Stabilization: +/- 1.5%
Einstein: +/- 50K (0.009%)
Elinchrom Digital Style 600RX 600 Watt/Second Monolight (120VAC): Voltage Stabilization: +/- 1%
Hensel Integra 1000 Watt/Second Monolight (115V AC) Voltage Stabilization: +/- 0.5%
Norman ML600R Monolight (#810653): Voltage Stabilization: +/- 1%
Photogenic Radio Powerlight 2500DR Voltage Stabilization: +/- 0.05%
Visatec Logos 1600 RFS 600 Voltage Stabilization: +/- 1%
p.1 #5 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
finkelstein wrote:
First of all, sync speed is mostly defined by your camera and not the strobe you use.
This is mostly true if one shoots with focal plane shutters and not leaf shutter lenses.
However, if you do, Hasselblad H can sync up to 1/800 and PhaseOne with Schneider lenses up to 1/1600! Now FD matters, as well as the ability of radio slaves to sync at those speeds. Profoto Air radio slave can sync up to 1/1600 for instance.
Since OP didn't specify the camera he uses we shouldn't make assumptions.
Based on your needs I'd look into Einstein units first
p.1 #6 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
True fast flash sync (not HSS) also requires shorter flash durations. Keeping to that beer budget and wireless flash sync is difficult. Paul Buff's Cybersync CST and CSR combination was a no-go with the Phase DF and P65+ and wireless 1/1600 sync, despite the claimed 1/2500th capability.
Pack/head systems generally have shorter flash durations. The new Einstein's short flash duration and new CSXCV with CST is a gamechanger (beer budget!). No problem achieving 1/1600th flash sync wireless with Phase DF, P65+, and Schneider leaf shutter lenses.
Limited budget---look at the Einstein. Open budget, I'd look at the Hensel Porty L1200 Lithium or Profoto.
p.1 #7 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
mbloof wrote:
Your B800 and 1600 don't have consistant light output? Could you describe more detail?
I ask as there are hords of folks that use and recommend these lights.
They get used and recommended because they're cheap and a good deal for the money. If you don't run into (or can live with) their limitations, they're pretty much a steal. When you do, you know why they cost what they did.
Some of their users are quite candid about their limitations—Zack Arias probably being the most visible one as of late.
Since the Bees hit the market, people have been complaining about the flash-to-flash power inconsistencies, the color temperature inconsistencies, and the gross casts they tend to take on as you power down. That's just the light they produce, not the myriad of other things people take issue with. But for the prices Buff is charging, there have to be tradeoffs; for a lot of less-demanding users, the tradeoffs he made can be lived with.
Especially for the hobbyist just experimenting with studio lighting, a $350 Alien Bee tends to make more sense initially than an $800 Elinchrom or a $1500 Broncolor monolight.
p.1 #8 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
Marcin Harla wrote:
This is mostly true if one shoots with focal plane shutters and not leaf shutter lenses.
However, if you do, Hasselblad H can sync up to 1/800 and PhaseOne with Schneider lenses up to 1/1600! Now FD matters, as well as the ability of radio slaves to sync at those speeds. Profoto Air radio slave can sync up to 1/1600 for instance.
Since OP didn't specify the camera he uses we shouldn't make assumptions.
Sure. This is all true. He did however mention wanting to shoot faster than 1/250, so I feel we can safely assume he does not shoot with leaf shutter lenses.
Either way, it would be nice to know what sort of budget the OP has in mind for his upgrade.
I am currently switching from Elinchrom to Profoto, albeit keeping most modifiers.
Was happy with Elinchrom's consistency in both power and color. I was starting to get fed up with the mount, never liked the digital button controls and had a few too many break on me, so I decided to switch (slowly).
p.1 #9 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
Depends on how much money you want to spend but if you want to stick with monolights I'd go with the RX-600's. Great power range and performance. If you don't have the dough, then the BX/Ri 500's. I also have an RX-300's for hair and kicker lights when needed. I know some people complain about the mount but I've never had an issue with it, pretty fast and easy to use, and when you compare Elinchrom's performnce, quality, price, and modifier selection, its pretty hard to beat.
p.1 #11 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
Gregg Heckler wrote:
when you compare Elinchrom's performnce, quality, price, and modifier selection, its pretty hard to beat.
I totally disagree. IMO they cannot hold a candle to Einsteins (even if priced the same). Thing is, Einstein is $300 less than 600RX.
Elinchrom has nice modifiers, but they can be adapted to other systems.
No, I don't own any PCB products, but Einstein is easily one of the best monolights (if not the best) in 600ws range. At any price. IMO
p.1 #12 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
Another example of people drinking the kool-aid.
I have not seen how the Einstein is put together but his bees are actually designed poorly and I really dont know how there aren't more problems with them then it seems.
From the pictures I have seen of a bee taken apart it is missing simple basic components that you would find in other lights. The big example is an isolation transformer. Now I love how Paul will sit there and tell you that he has 1% of 1% failure rates blah blah blah but if you actually look around and read how many people have problems with the bees, VML, and everything else, you will see that we are being poured the kool-aid and everyone is drinking it. Their biggest flaw is not working the bugs out before it is released. Einsteins, PLM's, and just about anything else has had its flaws that could of been worked out with a little more testing. If you read his "FORUMS" board and listen to the help he gives people, it is just crazy! A guy had the outlets fall out of his VML and paul told him to super glue it in.... WHHHHAAAAAATTTTT? Are you kidding me? Super Glue? How about replace it. He should let his people, that he hires, to do his work, NOT HIM. He is a very passionate person about his wares and he SHOULD be but he looks like a giant ass when someone posts something about his stuff and he just jumps all over them. I personally own a Alien Bee ring light and think it is sub-standard but it is still cheaper than the next ring light out there. I use all photogenics and they are not the best of the best either but but they are more consistant than what I have seen the alien bees do.
p.1 #13 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
Why do you compare Einsteins to AB?
AFAIK they are far from being the same. It seems neither of us have actual experience with Einstein, but people that do (to name a couple from this forum: Ellis Vener, Alex Koloskov) praise them and they use them everyday.
I also heard only good things about PCB customer service.
I don't care either way, I have invested my $$$ in another system (if you care to do a simple search on FM it's easy to find what I use), but lets try to be a little more objective here for the benefit of other users. Unless you have an axe to grind with PCB...
p.1 #14 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
"No, I don't own any PCB products, but Einstein is easily one of the best monolights (if not the best) in 600ws range. At any price. IMO"
Well I guessed it's settled then. At least my opinion is based on actual long term ownership and experience (I did start with Alien bees myself also). I would venture to say that the many Elinchrom using pros out there would have good things to say as well and also the many PCB users. But those with experience.
p.1 #15 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
Given your present setup ... the Einstein is certainly worth looking into.
Without going to 'gear head' on it, the Einstein uses different electronics than the Bees do. Color consistency is reportedly improved and seems to meet all the other criteria you mentioned, plus should be an add rather than a switch.
I've not used the Einstein, yet but the combination of what it offers and the VBM battery / converter for AC/DC capability (I have two with my B400, Einstein forthcoming) can be compelling ... at least to give it a good consideration before 'jumping ship'.
p.1 #16 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
I use a mixed bag of light at the studio: Alien Bees, Photogenic, Bowens...have even used some Interfit and some Bron...For location stuff I started investing in some of the Profoto battery packs...I now bring that to the studio and will rarely touch the other lights, unless I absolutely need to.
The other lights aren't bad and most do the trick most of the time. I'm a firm believer in that there is no perfect light...no matter what choice you make some compromise is made. I looked seriously at the Einstein when it was first announced. For me the compromise is the balcar mount...I can't stand it and that was enough for me to look elsewhere. But, if that doesn't bother you I think the Einstein is worth a look. I went Profoto and am very happy I did...but it is expensive and to maintain them expensive as well...Flash tube went out and guess what...no $40 tube like a Buff light, but a few hundred dollars. But, for me it is still worth the investment as the overall experience with my Profoto's has been terrific.
I could have very easily gone Elinchrom though...they have some amazing products especially the battery units. But once I used the Profoto mount I was hooked!
Good luck no matter what you do and keep us posted!
p.1 #17 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
kenski wrote:
Another example of people drinking the kool-aid.
I have not seen how the Einstein is put together but his bees are actually designed poorly and I really dont know how there aren't more problems with them then it seems.
From the pictures I have seen of a bee taken apart it is missing simple basic components that you would find in other lights. The big example is an isolation transformer.
I found this article from 2002 far more informative and credible than your paragraph above. The second half discusses the AlienBees units and why they are a great design:
DId you come to the conclusion that the AlienBees were "designed poorly" by yourself based on the omission of the fundamentally essential isolation transformer? If not, then please share with us your source of kool-aid provider so that we can steer clear.
Now I love how Paul will sit there and tell you that he has 1% of 1% failure rates blah blah blah but if you actually look around and read how many people have problems with the bees, VML, and everything else, you will see that we are being poured the kool-aid and everyone is drinking it.
Yes, please look around and read and tell us. Can you give us an accurate failure rate for each product? Can you also give us an accurate failure rate of all other manufacturers' products so that we can compare? Otherwise, your vagueness doesn't help anyone, does it?
Their biggest flaw is not working the bugs out before it is released. Einsteins, PLM's, and just about anything else has had its flaws that could of been worked out with a little more testing.
The company improved their products. I think that's great. In hindsight, you can say that about every product that had an imperfection.
If you read his "FORUMS" board and listen to the help he gives people, it is just crazy! A guy had the outlets fall out of his VML and paul told him to super glue it in.... WHHHHAAAAAATTTTT? Are you kidding me? Super Glue? How about replace it. He should let his people, that he hires, to do his work, NOT HIM. He is a very passionate person about his wares and he SHOULD be but he looks like a giant ass when someone posts something about his stuff and he just jumps all over them.
Now you just sound like you have a vendetta against the man. If you really want to be credible, I think you should stick to the discussion about studio lights rather than trying to start an anti-PCB campaign.
p.1 #18 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
i've done some reading regarding the sync speed and now i understand it's up to the camera not the flash so that i can't win.
as for why i wanted to sync faster than 1/250 is for different looks mainly. like during the peak sunshine hours, i dont like using f22 to get the sun light down in portrait shoots. its too much details and too sharp for my liking. i guess i could use ND filters on my lens but that'd mean i need multiple to cover all my lenses - which is probably i will do.
as for budget let's just say the Eli RX line is my max. but could they be used with the Vagabond Minis?
p.1 #19 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
everyone knows the quality of the AB's, there's no secret. which is why they're cheap. they're perfect for the price point. you cant ask for more. they have served me well, as well just not fire on a job.
my reason to switch up is the build quality, the mounts, the tilt lock, the color consistency, and the modifiers.
p.1 #20 · Help me with my transition from AlienBees to ??
Gregg Heckler wrote:
"No, I don't own any PCB products, but Einstein is easily one of the best monolights (if not the best) in 600ws range. At any price. IMO"
Well I guessed it's settled then. At least my opinion is based on actual long term ownership and experience (I did start with Alien bees myself also). I would venture to say that the many Elinchrom using pros out there would have good things to say as well and also the many PCB users. But those with experience.
So you have no experience with Einsteins either, right? AB don't count.
Your statement that Elinchrom's quality, price, and performance is hard to beat is based on experience with Elinchrom, not all systems out there, correct?
So your opinion is not anymore valid than mine. My opinion is also based on actual long term experience, with more than one brand, just not with Einstein. Sounds familiar?
To be fair, in my previous post I said IMO in case you missed it. No reason to get defensive with "I guess it's settled then".
I have experience with Elinchroms. I used to use them several years back but ditched them for Profoto.
Elinchrom is in a tough spot. Not bad, but not great - middle of the road. Oh, their AC packs suck. Big time.
They have fairly good battery packs though, especially for the price. Ranger is pretty decent, and Quadra found a niche too, especially among wedding photographers that want lightweight unit.
Let's compare some features, assuming manufacturers' data is accurate:
Power range: Einstein - 9stops (640ws - 2.5ws), 600RX - 6stops (600ws - 18.5ws)
Flash duration: no contest
Color across the range: Einstein
Recycling time: draw
Price: Einstein
I'll skip modifiers since both can be adapter to use many 3rd party brands as well as their own. Elinchrom makes some really good ones, like DO or 74" indirect octa.
I'm not saying Elinchrom is bad.
I'm saying at this time Einsteins seem to be better, on many counts, than most monolights on the market.
I try to stay objective. Even though I may be biased towards Profoto at times, I can appreciate what other manufacturers are offering as well.
