Hey guys.
I have a situation that perhaps you guys can advise me on.
I will be going to a martial arts tournament soon.
I have a canon rebel xti with a 28-80 mm lens.
this tournament will be indoor with indoor high school gymnasium type of lighting.
obviously the action will be fast so it will require a fast shutter speed.
I've been in those types of settings before and i've really had to open up the aperture as wide as possible but still reduce the shutter to such an extent that I got a lot of blur.
(the other day, at my daughter's piano recital I had to have it at 1/13 SS.)
i cannot use flash of course.
so my question is how can I have a fast enough SS to capture the action but still get enough light to get a clear shot?
you can rent a fast lens, shoot high ISO, and use noise ninja to reduce the resulting noise from the high ISO
This is your only option.. and very good advice! Shoot higher ISO (I know it will look grainy).. but possibly in post you can recover some of that. A nice fast lens with IS would be nice too.. I would use my 70-200 2.8L IS.. maybe sneek a mono pod in too... : )
Decent shots can be had with high ISO settings on your camera.
However, it is important not to INCREASE the exposure either in camera or after in post processing. That includes saturation and sometimes even unsharp mask.
Here, for example is a shot from an even older camera taken at ISO 3200.
I did not use any noise reduction on the shot. http://www.pbase.com/rickards/image/85406840.jpg
Canon EOS 20D ,Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM
1/13s f/5.6 at 47.0mm iso3200
Now I don't suggest you can use 1/13th of a second for the action in a martial arts event, but you can up the ISO and see what results you get.
When I first bought a DSLR, I chose a low-light lens as my first purchase (50mm f1.4). I think having a low light lens is a very useful thing, but know when to shoot wide open and when to stop down for DOF issues.
Also, know that when your wide open... your "focus and recompose" methods are very touchy..
I've heard this "Focus and recompose" thing several times on this forum lately and I cant help but feel like I am missing some very valuble photographic technique here.
I usually point the camera where I want it, focus it, and snap the picture.
Ian Bower wrote:
I usually point the camera where I want it, focus it, and snap the picture.
Wrong?
nope.. Just add a step...
Right before you "snap" hold your focus lock and reframe if need be...
Focus and recompose = focus lock, re-frame and click.
Also, If you are shooting @ 2.8 and that far away from your subjects,
Your odds of back focusing are going up slightly if you are not careful on where focus gets locked in at. Believe me... I am the king of back focusing!
Wow! Great Site - what a great way to try out a lense before you invest in it. I am definatly going to have to utilize them .
So you are saying - When I am composing an image in my camera.. focus on the subject , and then recompose - in order to make sure that the focus is where I want it?
and then recompose - in order to make sure that the focus is where I want it?
Basically, you always want to be shooting with one selected AF point. Depending on how your composing your shot.. You may need to focus lock on the eye of the model (for example).. and then while holding down your lock... re position your "creative composition" and execute the shutter. At smaller apertures this is usually no problem.. but as you grow bigger into the 2.8 and beyond range.. it is easy to blow the shot. i.e. back focus / missed focus.
If you find 80mm works, you may want to consider renting the 85L, or 135L if you need something a little longer. Rent for a week and practice in advance.
Travis Harris wrote:
Basically, you always want to be shooting with one selected AF point. Depending on how your composing your shot.. You may need to focus lock on the eye of the model (for example).. and then while holding down your lock... re position your "creative composition" and execute the shutter. At smaller apertures this is usually no problem.. but as you grow bigger into the 2.8 and beyond range.. it is easy to blow the shot. i.e. back focus / missed focus.
And I might add that a way to faciliate this process so that you do not have to keep holding down the focus lock is to move your focus to the * button using Custom Function 4. Then, you can focus with a touch of the * button, release the *button, recompose the frame, then shoot. Sometimes this is handy if you are wanting to lock in an exposure if shooting in Av mode for example. You don't tie up your shutter button with the focus lock and can use it for exposure lock.
But even better for your situation, this is also a great technique for pre-selecting your focus point before the action gets there. I used to use this in baseball and softball shooting a lot. Prevents your focus from finding a new spot 10 feet behind the action when you finally snap the shot but your AF point happens to be a little off the action --
I shoot a lot of volleyball in various school gyms so I understand the lighting conditions offered,, I never covered martial arts but would imagine there are good opportunities for various photos not requiring the high shutter speed,,
if you cannot beg, borrow or beg again a 2.8 lens then take the present gear and see if you can get into the gym a day early for some sample photos,, many gyms are open during the day and if you let them know what you are wanting to do I have had them accommodate with no issues,,
take photos of the brightest area, middle area and dimmest area,, run your ISO from low to high in each area and use the best f stops you have to offer,, head back to the computer to download them for decision time on the best setting for the various locations,, at least you will know the limits of the camera & gear in this location and what you have to work with,, far better than just walking in trying to do a few test shots and peep,,
many times the noise we think is going to do harm is not so bad and would think some of the martial art photos would look great in B&W with the grain showing,,
I do shoot some of our indoor high school sports (wrestling, basketball, volleyball).
You need fast shutter speed, likely near 1/320".
Flash is often acceptable, just check with the people in charge.
Talking to the kids participating none of them even notice the flash.
Having the flash off-axis can really help.
Often the best shots are before the action starts.
The basic rules are: get the subject's eyes, have the "ball" in focus (in this case the fist, foot, or grasp is the "ball"), and include the opponent when possible.
I have a good relationship with the officials, and can get close to the action. I'd never want to distract, but capturing the moment is also important.
The obvious problem with low f-stops is the shallow depth of field. You can isolate your main subject, but lose other parts of the story. Boosting the iso is the normal solution. My older D80 returns adequate results at H7 (I think that is iso 3200), if I get the histogram in the middle. Pros next to me are shooting D700 or 1D3 bodies at 3200 with almost no noticable noise.
