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Bill Zaspel Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book Ladies & Gentlemen: Newton Newbie here with another annoying question. Please excuse this intrusion, but I did try a search before beginning a new thread, so... I have been working at growing my business for some time now and have worked through pricing and websites, packaging and equipment, but I can't seem to find a good balance between the idea of online proofing or providing a proof book. Specifically, it has been recommended that providing a hardcopy proof book is arguably part of a dynamic marketing plan the works to gather orders as well as new clients by putting your name out there to potential customers who might not have found you on the internet or in the phone book. The premise is that viewing your work speaks louder than an advertisement or a direct mail piece when it comes to catching someones attention. However, it is generally agreed that most brides expect you to provide online proofing. Of course, it's the wave of the new technology in use today and everyone that can't see the classic proof book might be more likely to see the online gallery. So, what are y'all doing to present your images to your clients after the post-processing has been completed and you are working to get the images selected for the album? Obviously, this doesn't have to be an either/or answer and it could be both online as well as hard copy. I expect that those photographers more tuned to selling prints might argue that making a personal presentation allows you to provide suggestive selling skills for enlargements and prints. However, I know lots of photographers don't want to consider the confrontational event of "selling" or being a salesmen. So, what's your choice? A, B, or both? May 15, 2008 at 05:20 PM

Deb Brundage Offline Image Upload: On online vs book I've seen multiple routes. Many photographers give the B&G 300 to 500 4x6 prints in a "proof book" (more like proof box), along with online proofing. That way they can see them in print, but the couple can also select the photos and sizes they want online. Others call the B&G into their studio and give a multi-media presentation (slideshow with music) of the pictures, and ask the B&G to order then. There are many routes you could go. I only have one wedding coming up -- for friends (and nearly for free). So all I'm giving is a CD of images, and I'm giving them the option to print them out. I'd probably go the 4x6 and online proofing when I get the chance. I don't have a nice studio to show a presentation. May 15, 2008 at 06:04 PM

Bill Zaspel Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book Deb: Thanx for your response. I have discussed this with some other photographers in my area and I have heard of the personal multi-media presentation. This has been employed by some in conjuction with discounts to motivate the client to place orders within a set time frame and eliminate late call backs months or years after the wedding. I have done a number of weddings like you are describing and have provided the cd/dvd with a release for printing. As I continue to refine my packages and offerings I have been searching for just the right methods of delivery to compliment the finished product. I appreciate your ideas and thank you again for your comments. b May 15, 2008 at 06:11 PM

Tony Hoffer Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book Bill, I provide online proofs. I think that it gives access to many more people and the marketing potential is also much higher. Not to mention that the costs are lower for me, and therefore, lower for the couple. The best advice I heard was to set what your business model will be. If it will rely on print sales than do what it takes to obtain them. For me, it is to price myself appropriately for coverage and albums, and any print sales beyond that are icing on the cake. May 15, 2008 at 06:46 PM

letenele Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book I give my clients a proof box with 500 4x6s, and an online proof gallery. The gallery serves as an advertising tool because so many guests from the wedding will go to look at their pictures, and then hopefully recommend me to their friends. I don't rely on the gallery to be a selling tool, but extra sales are always nice. May 15, 2008 at 07:29 PM

jtrandall Offline Image Upload: On online vs book Letenele, Does your online proof gallery have more than 500 pictures and, if so, who decides on which 500 proofs they get? I would think you would take a lot of pictures with two photographers in 8 hours. Jim May 16, 2008 at 12:25 AM

Brandon Mizar Offline Image Upload: On online vs book I am going to start making it mandatory to have the proof books and I will also include the online proofing. I have had so many clients say they were bummed on their photos cause they tried printing them at WalMart and they came out all dark. I delivered a canvas and some 8x10's to a client last night and she almost started crying cause she loved the prints so much. She said that she is going to have me reprint all of her prints in her house because all of the ones she printed came out really ugly and dark. With the proof book they can see what the extra price for prints can do for their photos and it will save my reputation. May 16, 2008 at 01:14 AM

Bill Zaspel Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book Brandon Mizar wrote: I am going to start making it mandatory to have the proof books and I will also include the online proofing. I have had so many clients say they were bummed on their photos cause they tried printing them at WalMart and they came out all dark. I delivered a canvas and some 8x10's to a client last night and she almost started crying cause she loved the prints so much. She said that she is going to have me reprint all of her prints in her house because all of the ones she printed came out really ugly and dark. With the proof book they can see what the extra price for prints can do for their photos and it will save my reputation. I really appreciate the variety of responses here. I have been struggling with this element of my business model for months and I know that there is no wrong answer here, but the options can be overwhelming. I agree with the idea of setting your model and letting that work for you. Thanks Tony. I also agree with what you've said, Brandon. Providing proofs that allow the client to see the difference between WalMart/CVS can really lend credibility to your product/pricing and referals. From everything that I read here and elsewhere, using proof books, while a little more expensive, will provide dividends in new bookings because people will see more of my work. I was thinking of using an average 10X10 book for my brides and including a smaller 5X5 for the parents, all free. That way, my images travel around and more people will see them. I will also include online proofing for people who can't see the actual proof book. I believe that people will tell others and the traffic to my web site will spike after each event as people visit. I haven't been able to prove this yet, but I remain optimistic. Thanks again to everyone who has responded. Your input is very valuable to me and I plan on using everything that has been said. bill May 16, 2008 at 12:36 PM

hassy501 Offline Image Upload: On online vs book Bill, what marketing technique will you use to draw wedding guests and family to your site after the event ? Word of mouth ? Think of something besides the proof albums to draw them to your site.........photo cards, email list ? May 16, 2008 at 01:16 PM

letenele Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book jtrandall wrote: Letenele, Does your online proof gallery have more than 500 pictures and, if so, who decides on which 500 proofs they get? I would think you would take a lot of pictures with two photographers in 8 hours. Jim My online gallery contains all the images from the wedding that the couple will get. I decide which 500 to print. So they get the best 500 with that and more on disc. Although I just shot a wedding and had 895 images, and couldn't narrow it down to less than 800 It's ok though I'll just give two proof boxes instead of one and it will make the bride happy. Totally worth the extra $20. (yes, my proof prints cost 6 cents each) Kristina May 16, 2008 at 07:50 PM

unblinkable Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book We give hard copy proofs (roughly 300 to 400) as well as a viewing gallery (porta... looks nice) that links them to a lab gallery to order prints (millers). May 17, 2008 at 05:34 AM

Corojo Offline Image Upload: On online vs book Online viewing only for our least expensive package - online viewing and proof portfolios (Milers' Lab) for other packages. Will be using a hard cover 'press' proof book next year for our high end package. Would never give out 'loose' or 'unbound' proofs - as it kills extra sales. May 17, 2008 at 03:31 PM

icing Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book i do online gallery + ordering through my website [built in with blu domain] and a proof box of up to 500 photos. proof books are also available in 11x14 or 8x10 size-- have yet to sell one of these. online is great for me because it's FREE + FAST. May 18, 2008 at 04:39 AM

marko1953 Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book " all of the ones she printed came out really ugly and dark" Could this be because the files were ADOBE RGB instad of sRGB? Some printer places will just put them thorugh the printer and if they are all muddy and dark well too bad. I had this happen to me before I learned that they were only set up for sRGB files.. It also happened to a collegue who couldn't understand why her prints looked so bad from the local store printer. May 18, 2008 at 06:25 AM

spxxxx Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book I do both for all clients - a set of 7x5's and online gallery by image quix - the clients love to have something in their hands that they can easily sort through May 18, 2008 at 08:00 AM

Bill Zaspel Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book hassy501 wrote: Bill, what marketing technique will you use to draw wedding guests and family to your site after the event ? Word of mouth ? Think of something besides the proof albums to draw them to your site.........photo cards, email list ? H: Actually, I have worked on two different ways to push sales from online proofing. The first I admit that I "borrowed" from a competitor by placing info cards on the dining tables at the reception. This card is approved by the B/G and includes an invitation to my website to view the prints. I also include an area on the card for the guests to provide an email address that will receive an email notice when the images are posted. The second part of that campaign is actually the first part to gather similar information from the B/G before the event so that I can assist them with notifying friends and relatives about the services that have been contracted. That way, once the eSession images have been posted, some guests can actually visit the site in advance of the actual wedding and "practice" navigating my site in preparation for the remaining images. I password protect everything unless specifically directed not to by the B/G. Distribution of the password to potential site visitors is control by the B/G so in theory, they know everyone that views their images. All this is used in subsequent marketing programs that follow after the event with the potential for addition email notification at holidays, birthdays, or anniversaries. b May 19, 2008 at 05:34 PM

Bill Zaspel Offline Image Upload: Off online vs book Corojo wrote: Online viewing only for our least expensive package - online viewing and proof portfolios (Milers' Lab) for other packages. Will be using a hard cover 'press' proof book next year for our high end package. Would never give out 'loose' or 'unbound' proofs - as it kills extra sales. C: This is exactly what I have been thinking might be the best melding of both concepts to provide the smoothest distribution and broadest coverage. Thanks for your input. b May 19, 2008 at 05:35 PM

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