ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

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Dr_Design
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p.1 #1 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

Hello there...

Just wondering... how useful is the ST-E2 to use as a focus assistant? Does anyone use it for ONLY this purpose?

I've got a 5D which struggles sometimes to lock up the focus [even with L lenses] in low light. So would love to know whether ST-E2 is worth getting... I get forced at many occasions to use the center point and re-compose but don't really feel comfortable doing that because you can easily miss the plane of focus at 1.4

What are your experiences?

Thanks

Mar 31, 2008 at 02:33 PM

Josh_J
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p.1 #2 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

Yes, I do sometimes use it for this purpose. Works great. I'm thinking of getting another one for my second body. I'll also sometimes velcro a pocket wizard to the top of it to trigger an off camera light or two. I know I could use the built in flash triggering, but the pocket wizards are much more reliable.

Mar 31, 2008 at 02:51 PM

ericvgill
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p.1 #3 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

Dr_Design wrote:
Hello there...
Just wondering... how useful is the ST-E2 to use as a focus assistant? Does anyone use it for ONLY this purpose?

Yes, since it turned out to be crap for everything else.

I've got a 5D which struggles sometimes to lock up the focus [even with L lenses] in low light. So would love to know whether ST-E2 is worth getting...

It does the job, and well, and should, for the cost.

Of course, it should be a reliaable wireless trigger for the cost, too, but it's not.

I get forced at many occasions to use the center point and re-compose but don't really feel comfortable doing that because you can easily miss the plane of focus at 1.4

You'll likely have that problem still. One of the major weaknesses of the 5D is the AF system. As you note, the center, cross-type high-sensitivity point works great. The outer points, not so much. They work better with better light (duh), but the AF assist will not magically make them equal to the center point.

The 40D gives me hope we'll see an improved system on the 5D MKII (or whatever they call the update).

Mar 31, 2008 at 02:59 PM

PShizzy
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p.1 #4 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

One of the major weaknesses of the 5D is the AF system.

Really? I've shot sports with it, from basketball to boxing, in wretched lighting to fair, and it's always been a solid performer. It beat my 20D hands down, but of course it wasn't a 1 series.

To each their own.

Max

Mar 31, 2008 at 03:29 PM

Gerry Szarek
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p.1 #5 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

The 420EX/30 flash units will light up all the focus points if memory serves me correctly, it is a lot bigger than the ST-E2.

Mar 31, 2008 at 03:32 PM

Dr_Design
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p.1 #6 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

...but the AF assist will not magically make them equal to the center point.

Yeah was wondering how would you compare it the to the center point.

I think that's the only thing I'm holding against the 5D.... but didn't want to wait for the MKII or whatever... I wanted to start to shooting... o well... it's never perfect [unless maybe if you pay more], you always have to deal with an issue.

+ thanks Josh_J

Mar 31, 2008 at 03:33 PM

Dr_Design
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p.1 #7 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

My only [bad] experience with it is in low light using 35L photographing people.... well I won't call it bad but it wasn't that smooth...haven't tried it with the 135L yet.

I think an advanced focusing system would make the 5D a real killer. I just feel the full-frame sensor deserves a bit more.

Mar 31, 2008 at 03:39 PM

PShizzy
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p.1 #8 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

I see your point about how great it would be to have full frame and a wonderful AF. That's why they have the 1Ds series.

What I don't get is why people have wild expectations for low to mid price point cameras. Part of it is that we don't expect technology to advance so quickly. In 3 years, we may laugh at the 5D, not recognizing it's pioneering effort as the first really affordable full frame digital sensor camera. It opened at a 3k price point, with a sensor that was very current. Of course, it had to cut back on certain features to meet that pricepoint.

That it was a success meant that part of its profits could be used as seed money for other projects that will bring about further work.

The goal of the 5D was to bring full frame to a reasonable price point. They did that, and for that, I'm quite thankful. If I wanted more out of a full frame sensor, I'd have gotten a 1Ds.

Max

Mar 31, 2008 at 03:57 PM

ericvgill
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p.1 #9 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

PShizzy wrote:
One of the major weaknesses of the 5D is the AF system.

Really?

Yeah. Try a 1-series, any Nikon from the past couple of generations, or even a 40D.

ESPECIALLY on the outer points, which, coincidentally, have poor frame coverage on the 5D.

Mar 31, 2008 at 11:09 PM

ericvgill
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p.1 #10 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

PShizzy wrote:
I see your point about how great it would be to have full frame and a wonderful AF. That's why they have the 1Ds series.

What I don't get is why people have wild expectations for low to mid price point cameras.

The competition.

Mar 31, 2008 at 11:10 PM

ericvgill
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p.1 #11 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

Dr_Design wrote:
I think that's the only thing I'm holding against the 5D.... but didn't want to wait for the MKII or whatever... I wanted to start to shooting... o well... it's never perfect [unless maybe if you pay more], you always have to deal with an issue.

<shrug> I paid list for one of the first 5Ds to hit Houston (I was in the middle of an architecture shoot, and just took a break, picked it up, and swapped it in) and haven't regretted a penny of it since I opened the first RAW file. It's a workhorse that can deliver excellent results, though it may take some effort to get them.

I am, however, hoping that the recent hot competition will encourage them to bring the body features of their line with what other users are getting.

Mar 31, 2008 at 11:28 PM

EyeBrock
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p.1 #12 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

Dr_Design wrote:
Hello there...

Just wondering... how useful is the ST-E2 to use as a focus assistant? Does anyone use it for ONLY this purpose?

I've got a 5D which struggles sometimes to lock up the focus [even with L lenses] in low light. So would love to know whether ST-E2 is worth getting... I get forced at many occasions to use the center point and re-compose but don't really feel comfortable doing that because you can easily miss the plane of focus at 1.4

What are your experiences?

Thanks

I was just messing about with my ST-E2 and the 50L (both very recent purchases) on my 20D.
I did some comparison shots in low light around my house, albeit not in the most scientific way, but I noticed a large improvement in focussing and sharpness and I was shooting wide open. I was wondering myself if anybody used it for focus assist. The manual says its only effective in this mode to about 30 ft.

Mar 31, 2008 at 11:52 PM

Gochugogi
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p.1 #13 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

I have both a ST-E2 and 5D. I bought the ST-E2 in 1999 for AF assist on my EOS 3. Nowadays I mainly use it to trigger my 430EX and 420EX for small products and macro. Works great: triggers every time and allows control of lighting ratios. I planned to use it for 5D AF assist but found it largely unnecessary beyond total darkness. And I mainly shoot at twilight and other dim conditions. My 5D rarely misses focus even in dim bars and casinos. On the other hand, my 10D an d 20D really benefited from AF assist.

Edited on Apr 01, 2008 at 12:30 AM

Apr 01, 2008 at 12:30 AM

PShizzy
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p.1 #14 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

ericvgill wrote:
PShizzy wrote:
One of the major weaknesses of the 5D is the AF system.

Really?

Yeah. Try a 1-series, any Nikon from the past couple of generations, or even a 40D.

ESPECIALLY on the outer points, which, coincidentally, have poor frame coverage on the 5D.

Eric,

I own a 40D, a 1D mk1, 2, and 3 currently (as well as the 5D), and have used a mk2n and D300, D200, and other Nikon cameras well. I have no idea of your experience with those cameras, so I won't comment on them, but I can say with some certainty that I am a good judge of those cameras which I've mentioned, especially since I've used them all in a variety of low light, high action situations, which is about the most taxing situation for AF.

I will say though that I don't do BIF stuff, or wildlife, so I can't say that it's good for that. I shoot mostly sports.

As for the competition offering a lot for a certain pricepoint, I'm failing to find a full frame digital camera for 3k or less. Right now it looks like the 5D is the only game in town if you want a new affordable full frame digital sensor.

That doesn't mean the D3 isn't worth every penny of its 5k pricetag, but if you don't have the cheddar for it, you just don't have the cheddar for it. Plus, what if you don't need all the bells and whistled, and just need a good full frame sensor. Or what if you wanted to spend the money on glass, but needed a full frame sensor.

And even if you do get a D3, you're still playing with 12mp. Only the 5D did it for 2k cheaper.... years ago.

It's all about the perspective man.

Anyhow, to each their own

Max

Edited on Apr 01, 2008 at 08:21 AM

Apr 01, 2008 at 08:16 AM

pentool
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p.1 #15 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

i just asked the same thing like a week ago. do a search under my name and you will get a lot of answers.

Apr 01, 2008 at 09:03 AM

Dr_Design
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p.1 #16 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

pentool: Thanks, found your thread to be useful. Seeming like I'm purchasing one soon, yet I don't really the [outdated] look of it... anyway... as long as it functions well...

PShizzy: I think I'd say what ericvgill said, The Competition. If the D300 didn't feature an advanced focusing system then I might not expect it from the [next] 5D, but since the competition [Nikon] introduced this to a non top of the range body then I'd say Canon should as well.

Yet I didn't really want to wait for the next model, because I want to go out shooting right now

Apr 01, 2008 at 11:36 AM

Ron Hew
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p.1 #17 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

Competition? What? 5D was out since 2005. D3 was available like 4 months ago with double the current market price of 5D.

Apr 01, 2008 at 01:30 PM

jamesf99
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p.1 #18 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

Slightly OT, but regarding 45 point "professional AF". Canon could throw it in for almost nothing.. Seems to me I've had it on cameras for many, many years. It isn't the cost, it's a product differentiation tool and nothing more. Nikon has now effectively used it to compete with the D300, but Canon is cheap and restricts it to 1 series. They will continue to do so.

Think about the EOS 3, A $1k "prosumer" camera in 1998/9 where the 45 point made its debut; think about the 1V, etc... It's been around for a long time. All R&D has been recovered. Canon simply does NOT want to give it to you. There is no real cost reason not to provide better AF.

Also, IMO the 5d is a very poor performer for high speed AF. I have thousands of shots to prove that it simply isn't that good unless you're using a very fast lens, and even then it's certainly not my idea of the right tool to use. Each to his own, but if I made my living shooting sports I don't think the 5d would be in the "work" bag.

Apr 01, 2008 at 01:45 PM

ericvgill
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p.1 #19 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

PShizzy wrote:

I own a 40D, a 1D mk1, 2, and 3 currently (as well as the 5D), and have used a mk2n and D300, D200, and other Nikon cameras well. I have no idea of your experience with those cameras, so I won't comment on them, but I can say with some certainty that I am a good judge of those cameras which I've mentioned, especially since I've used them all in a variety of low light, high action situations, which is about the most taxing situation for AF.

<sigh> The original poster wanted to know what benefit the STE-2 would deliver, and I was trying to give him a good idea what to expect. Now we've wandered into opinion and what different people would be happy with on their cameras.

No, thanks. Not even on April 1.

Apr 01, 2008 at 03:12 PM

PShizzy
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p.1 #20 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

Dr,

If the D300 was full frame, had the 51pt AF, and then stayed at 2k for a complete setup (w grip), THEN I would say its more camera. but as it stands, it's got a few things better (features and AF) and a few worse (sensor size).

The D3 is a better comparison, except it's brand new and 5k. If the D3 came out at 3k, then yes, I can understand that comparison. If the D3 came out at 5k at the same time as the 5D, then yes I can understand that comparison.

I sometimes wonder who makes these comparisons and what their experience is. I try to be open minded, and have tried out a variety of cameras, not simply for the enjoyment, but because I want to be able to say with certainty that I know what I'm talking about.

I'll soon be trying out a D3, and I just last night tried the D300 in a game situation. After that I could make a much more fair comparison. I will say this: The D3 is a great idea for a camera. It's basically taking it back to film days, in that it's a high speed full frame camera, which is what a lot of people have always wanted.

james, poor is relative. As I stated before, I shot a lot of sports with the 5D, and felt it kept up just fine. Did it have its moments? Yes. But shooting with the D300 last night, and its professional 51pt AF, it didn't always keep up. Sometimes it's user error (people trying to shoot from the hip, hoping the AF is magical and can focus in 0.0 seconds), and people need to learn how to anticipate better. Sometimes it's crappy focus (the 20D was particularly bad, 30D was better in some regards, but some people thought it was worse too. The 40D seems much snappier).

I doubt I'll win anyone over, especially those who havent tried all the cameras they are comparing the 5D too. But if you look at the forums, there are a lot of happy 5D owners.

Max

Apr 01, 2008 at 03:24 PM

Ron Hew
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p.1 #21 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

ericvgill wrote:
PShizzy wrote:

I own a 40D, a 1D mk1, 2, and 3 currently (as well as the 5D), and have used a mk2n and D300, D200, and other Nikon cameras well. I have no idea of your experience with those cameras, so I won't comment on them, but I can say with some certainty that I am a good judge of those cameras which I've mentioned, especially since I've used them all in a variety of low light, high action situations, which is about the most taxing situation for AF.

<sigh> The original poster wanted to know what benefit the STE-2 would deliver, and I was trying to give him a good idea what to expect. Now we've wandered into opinion and what different people would be happy with on their cameras.

No, thanks. Not even on April 1.

ericvgill wrote:
PShizzy wrote:
I see your point about how great it would be to have full frame and a wonderful AF. That's why they have the 1Ds series.

What I don't get is why people have wild expectations for low to mid price point cameras.

The competition.

That was nice of you

Apr 01, 2008 at 05:41 PM

cogitech
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p.1 #22 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

I use the ST-E2 as an AF assist sometimes and it works great for that, but I don't often "need" to use it. I find the 5D great in low light. I also use the ST-E2 for what it is designed for and I cannot recall any incident whatsoever where it failed to trigger my flashes.

Edited on Apr 01, 2008 at 05:45 PM

Apr 01, 2008 at 05:44 PM

Dr_Design
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p.1 #23 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

I can see that the 5D took over the ST-E2 as a topic... hehe!

Ron Hew: Not sure if you were referring to me, but when I mentioned the competition I was referring to the D300, not the D3. + I didn't compare it to the 5D really but to what we are expecting from the [new] 5D.

PShizzy: I get your point when you compare the 5D to the D3, as I am a believer that [Full Frame] is a separate category. When I've faced these focus issues in low light I wished that I had a D3 or a 1Ds... because FF is basically what I want. Yet I think people compare it to the D300 because it's in the same [price league]... I don't mind the price of the [new] 5D to go up if it incorporates a better focusing system. Yet this is my preference, other people prefer weather sealing and maybe other features. Honestly, I see the D3 as my ideal camera [even price wise] yet I really love my canon lenses and not ready to dump my glass. At the end, I guess you should be happy with what you got and try to make the best out of it. If I had the D3 I would love to only have the chance to think about the 85L, which I am considering to complement my 5D

I think with the new 5D Canon needs to reposition the camera perfectly between the D300 and the D3 [just how Nikon positions their cameras].... yet of course, they need to clearly differentiate it from the 1 Series, which might be a challenge... my 2 marketing cents!

jamesf99: Exactly, I think many people here want to see the new 5D as a digital EOS 3.

Conclusion: I think I'm purchasing the ST-E2 sometime soon!

Edited on Apr 02, 2008 at 02:44 AM

Apr 02, 2008 at 02:42 AM

beanpkk
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p.1 #24 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

I use an ST-E2 to trigger a 580EX and a 420EX and have had absolutely no problem. In fact I have had a lot of creative-lighting fun with it. I seldom shoot flash with the flash unit on the camera any more....it's almost always the ST-E2 and one or more remotes.

By the way, I also have four of those $20 flash boosters from Ritz Camera (Wolf), and they're a lot of fun too.

Apr 02, 2008 at 02:53 AM

dhlewis
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p.1 #25 · ST-E2 as a focus assistant ONLY

Gochugogi wrote:
I have both a ST-E2 and 5D. I bought the ST-E2 in 1999 for AF assist on my EOS 3. Nowadays I mainly use it to trigger my 430EX and 420EX for small products and macro. Works great: triggers every time and allows control of lighting ratios. I planned to use it for 5D AF assist but found it largely unnecessary beyond total darkness. And I mainly shoot at twilight and other dim conditions. My 5D rarely misses focus even in dim bars and casinos. On the other hand, my 10D an d 20D really benefited from AF assist.

I've played with the STE-2 on my 1DIIn and did not see that much difference in low light. Thanks for the hint, I'm going to try it on my 10D now.

Apr 02, 2008 at 12:11 PM


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