Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

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josh paris
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p.1 #1 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

Ok,
During the consumption of a beautiful bottle of Washington Cabernet(J.Bookwalter 2005!)...I wondered onto ebay and apparently placed a bid for a used Mamiya 645e Medium body film camera...well I won it!
However I never shot film(besides a P&S), only digital, and I haven't even held a medium format camera before!
I'm not necessary disappointed in my rash purchase, as I am very curious about film and to see if I have or can learn the skills to operate it well. And with the Medium format prices, this seemed like a good choice- but I really don't know what I have here? I'm not sure what kind or where to get film?

here is a link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mamiya-645e-rapid-pack-medium-format-camera_W0QQitemZ120325426012QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item120325426012&_trkparms=39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A13%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Im at the ground floor on this one.....So now what? is this a good starting point? suggest anything else I may need to start clickin?

thanks
Josh

Actual Pics added!

Edited on Nov 11, 2008 at 06:17 AM · View previous versions

Nov 04, 2008 at 07:15 PM

mpmendenhall
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p.1 #2 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

Looks like fun!

For film, you'll need "220" size roll film, which any decent local camera store should have (or the big online retailers like Adorama, B&H, etc.). Since the negative size is much larger than 35mm, you can still get great prints off of film that would be on the grainy side for 35mm work (ISO >400 speed), or you can go for slow (ISO <= 100) film for fantastically detailed shots. Head to your local camera store and just get a wide variety of 220 film rolls, so you can figure out what look you like; whatever store sells it can probably develop it for you too. You can also pick up some black and white film and learn to do the development yourself.

Operating that MF camera shouldn't be too much different from using your DSLR, but remember that with a larger format camera your "normal" focal length lens is longer and will thus have a shallower depth-of-field than you are used to on 35mm. Careful focusing is especially important!

Enjoy!

Nov 04, 2008 at 07:39 PM

mh2000
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p.1 #3 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

Actually, from memory, this camera comes with "inserts" for 120 film with *available* inserts for 220. 220 is harder to find and more expensive per frame. I'm pretty sure you will be buying 120 (unless I missed something). I considered buying one new when it came out, it's a decent starter camera, should be fun. IMO you will want to get a decent cheap Epson flatbed that can scan the film to have fun with your new toy, I think they go for ~$169. When I shoot MF I don't shoot lots of images so developing and scanning my negs isn't a big deal. I also prefer b&w and Tmax 100 & 400 are spectacular.

Nov 05, 2008 at 12:33 AM

josh paris
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p.1 #4 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

mpmendenhall wrote:
Looks like fun!

For film, you'll need "220" size roll film, which any decent local camera store should have (or the big online retailers like Adorama, B&H, etc.). Since the negative size is much larger than 35mm, you can still get great prints off of film that would be on the grainy side for 35mm work (ISO >400 speed), or you can go for slow (ISO <= 100) film for fantastically detailed shots. Head to your local camera store and just get a wide variety of 220 film rolls, so you can figure out what look you like; whatever store sells it can probably develop it for you too. You can also pick up some black and white film and learn to do the development yourself.

Operating that MF camera shouldn't be too much different from using your DSLR, but remember that with a larger format camera your "normal" focal length lens is longer and will thus have a shallower depth-of-field than you are used to on 35mm. Careful focusing is especially important!

Enjoy!

Thank you for the advise! I picked up some 220, but it was hard to find....

Nov 05, 2008 at 01:20 AM

josh paris
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p.1 #5 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

mh2000 wrote:
Actually, from memory, this camera comes with "inserts" for 120 film with *available* inserts for 220. 220 is harder to find and more expensive per frame. I'm pretty sure you will be buying 120 (unless I missed something). I considered buying one new when it came out, it's a decent starter camera, should be fun. IMO you will want to get a decent cheap Epson flatbed that can scan the film to have fun with your new toy, I think they go for ~$169. When I shoot MF I don't shoot lots of images so developing and scanning my negs isn't a big deal. I also prefer b&w and Tmax 100 & 400 are spectacular.

Oh good news..i hope it can take the 120, I saw lots of that, but 220 was work to find.

So in terms of MF, what is the 80mm lens comp. to in 35mm terms? like 50mm or 35mm?

thanks
Josh

Nov 05, 2008 at 01:21 AM

mpmendenhall
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p.1 #6 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

Sorry, I messed up and should have said "120" instead of "220," as mh2000 notes.
The "645" in the name of the camera you got refers to the 6cm x 4.5cm negative size of the format it uses (120/220 film is 6cm tall, and various medium format cameras use various widths of the film for one frame, 4.5cm in your case). Comparing this to a usual 36mm x 24mm 35mm negative, this is about 1.7x the size in each direction of 35mm film, so your 80mm lens corresponds to an 80/1.7 ~ 50mm lens on 35mm (but will have the shallower depth of field of an 80mm lens).

Nov 05, 2008 at 01:38 AM

Top Gun
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p.1 #7 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

For a medium format camera an 80mm lens is more or less equivalent to 50mm (standard) in 35mm format.

120 film is much easier to find as somebody has already pointed out and you experienced first hand. That being said I personally prefer Ilford PanF Plus 50 iso film for its incredibly small grain and image quality. However such a slow speed film does require a decent amount of light for proper exposure. Ilford Delta 100 and Kodak Tmax100 are also excellent choices. I haven't used much film lately that was above 100 speed so my knowledge in that area is obscure. Also, the films I mentioned are all B+W.

If you don't have an exposure meter already then it might be handy to pick one up or learn the sunny 16 rule that way you aren't wasting time and film going the old trial and error routine.

The rapid wind grip is nice to have but I prefer the feel of a MF camera without one...click and wind...click and wind.

Color film in my area is becoming more sparse and they usually have to send 120 color film out to be processed. Last time I checked it was about $8 per roll for developing.

Developing your own B+W is fun and will make you appreciate the ease of digital. I find developing stuff for free on craigslist all the time in my area so hopefully you would be able to do the same.

Good luck with it and have fun.

Isaiah

Nov 05, 2008 at 01:41 AM

mawz
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p.1 #8 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

Note that you won't be able to use 220 film in a 120 insert (the inserts are very nicely labelled).

Any 120 or 220 insert for the M645 bodies, 465 Super or 645Pro will work in your 645E, and these inserts are cheap so grab a couple off KEH or eBay.

The 80 is a slightly long normal, like a 50mm on 35mm film or FF digital. A 55 is comparable to a 35mm and a 150mm is comparable to a 100mm. Essentially there's something akin to a 1.5x crop factor from 645 to 35mm.

The 645E has a built-in meter and Aperture Priority AE, so metering will not be an issue for you. The viewfinder has some noticeable barrel distortion so if things look distorted at the edges rest assured it's not the lens.

Nov 05, 2008 at 02:03 AM

josh paris
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p.1 #9 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

mawz wrote:
Note that you won't be able to use 220 film in a 120 insert (the inserts are very nicely labelled).

Any 120 or 220 insert for the M645 bodies, 465 Super or 645Pro will work in your 645E, and these inserts are cheap so grab a couple off KEH or eBay.

The 80 is a slightly long normal, like a 50mm on 35mm film or FF digital. A 55 is comparable to a 35mm and a 150mm is comparable to a 100mm. Essentially there's something akin to a 1.5x crop factor from 645 to 35mm.

The 645E has a built-in meter and Aperture Priority AE, so metering will not be an issue for you. The viewfinder has some noticeable barrel distortion so if things look distorted at the edges rest assured it's not the lens.

Wow...this is exciting. Now I want to develop film...what do I need? like this:
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/pho/906098356.html

or this:

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/pho/902004245.html

or

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/pho/898779159.html

Nov 05, 2008 at 02:44 AM

mpmendenhall
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p.1 #10 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

Those kits include an enlarger, which is what you would use if you were to make your own prints (which would require you to make a darkroom in your house). That's the ultimate in do-it-yourself film processing, but perhaps a bit of a stretch for a start.

The minimal developing kit you need is much smaller, and won't require you to light-tight seal a room of your house. You'll need:
- a dark bag, a light-tight black cloth/plastic bag with holes for your hands that you use for loading/unloading film
- a developing tank and reels for 120 film, a light-tight plastic/metal cylinder into which you load the exposed film (in the dark bag) then add the processing chemicals
- the developing chemicals (developer, stop bath, fixer)
With these inexpensive and simple tools, you can develop your own film in a household sink in ~30 minutes. The film that you buy may recommend a developer, or ask someone knowledgeable at your local camera store — there are several different developer chemistries to choose from with their own characteristics (I've personally had good luck with Ilford developer/fixer on their B&W 35mm films, but there are plenty of other good choices). Once you've developed your film, you can scan it and merge the images in with your normal digital workflow/printing process.

Nov 05, 2008 at 06:52 AM

mhayes5254
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p.1 #11 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

As was said above, skip the enlarger and get a scanner. I set up my own B&W darkroom in 1969 and gave it up sometime in the mid-late 70's. I am now in a similar situation as you, just bought a Mamiya RZ67 and am playing with film again and enjoying it. Scanning film is a much better option than the darkroom (unless you just like to play

). There are lots of different skills needed to make a print and being able to use software to print is probably a skill you already have.

Nov 07, 2008 at 03:45 AM

josh paris
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p.1 #12 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

mhayes5254 wrote:
As was said above, skip the enlarger and get a scanner. I set up my own B&W darkroom in 1969 and gave it up sometime in the mid-late 70's. I am now in a similar situation as you, just bought a Mamiya RZ67 and am playing with film again and enjoying it. Scanning film is a much better option than the darkroom (unless you just like to play

). There are lots of different skills needed to make a print and being able to use software to print is probably a skill you already have.

Ok- any links to developing the negs?...also any scanner...I assume a neg. scanner right? I have a Canon 8600F scanner, which I think should work well....
thanks\
josh

Nov 07, 2008 at 04:21 AM

mh2000
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p.1 #13 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

I also have mothballed my darkroom and currently scan all my film, but I wouldn't discourage you from going full on traditional with film if you have the curiosity. "Real" b&w prints can look fantastic, better than any inkjets or "true b&w" from digital files and for most images it isn't even hard, all the flexibility of digital isn't always needed... and if you ever show in galleries, collectors will be much happier buying traditional prints than inkjet (pigment or whatever)... that's just how it is.

I wouldn't pay more than $100 for a complete darkroom at this stage of the game though, heck, I paid $100 for a very complete darkroom 20 years ago... when someone is making space they just want to get rid of the stuff, all of it.

You can get good deals on changing bags and developer tanks and reels on ebay, add a couple brown bottles, a thermometer, a graduated cylinder and you are ready to go. You also want a dust free place to hang your negatives to dry, a $5 cloth garment bag from Walmart works well... cloth pins will work, but they make some nice little weighted stainless clips that work better.

As to developing your film, just follow the directions!

For medium format, I find that Rodinal developer works well and has the benefit that it lasts *forever*, all other developers will go bad within a couple months after you mix them up. Rodinal tends to accentuate grain, but yields super sharp negatives (too much grain for most 35mm films, but superb 120 Tmax results.

Many places suggest that you have to use a stop bath when developing film, but in reality a 30 sec water bath works just as well. Also, most recommend using a wetting agent like Photoflo, but I have found that a final 5 minute soak in distilled water works better.

The main benefit of developing your own MF/LF b&w films is that it is easy and you get to do it whenever you want (my prolab is across town and a pain to work into my schedule... 35mm film... Walgreens is fine).

Nov 07, 2008 at 05:20 AM

Alf Beharie
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p.1 #14 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

Hi Josh. I dont know what lenses you got with your M645 body, if any, but I have two here that I dont use anymore and that I'm therefore willing to sell.
They are the 150mm f3.5 N and 210mm f4 N.
If your interested email me for more details.
Regards
Alf.

Nov 07, 2008 at 06:20 AM

josh paris
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p.1 #15 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

mh2000 wrote:
I also have mothballed my darkroom and currently scan all my film, but I wouldn't discourage you from going full on traditional with film if you have the curiosity. "Real" b&w prints can look fantastic, better than any inkjets or "true b&w" from digital files and for most images it isn't even hard, all the flexibility of digital isn't always needed... and if you ever show in galleries, collectors will be much happier buying traditional prints than inkjet (pigment or whatever)... that's just how it is.

I wouldn't pay more than $100 for a complete darkroom at this stage of the game though, heck, I paid $100 for a very complete darkroom 20 years ago... when someone is making space they just want to get rid of the stuff, all of it.

You can get good deals on changing bags and developer tanks and reels on ebay, add a couple brown bottles, a thermometer, a graduated cylinder and you are ready to go. You also want a dust free place to hang your negatives to dry, a $5 cloth garment bag from Walmart works well... cloth pins will work, but they make some nice little weighted stainless clips that work better.

As to developing your film, just follow the directions!

Nov 07, 2008 at 06:41 AM

josh paris
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p.1 #16 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

Alf Beharie wrote:
Hi Josh. I dont know what lenses you got with your M645 body, if any, but I have two here that I dont use anymore and that I'm therefore willing to sell.
They are the 150mm f3.5 N and 210mm f4 N.
If your interested email me for more details.
Regards
Alf.

Alf. thanks for the offer....it has a 80mm on it, I am going to play with that for sometime before I venture into other lenses....for some reason it strikes me as almost a completely different approach to photography that I have known before...and that is the exciting part for me.. anticipating the shoot.

Nov 07, 2008 at 06:45 AM

mh2000
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p.1 #17 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

also, your scanner should be perfectly fine. If it is like my Epson 4990, you will want to scan at full resolution and then cut in half after bringing into PS (it will still be a huge file, but smoothed and with reduced noise). Don't try to judge film scans like digital at 100%, it's what you print to that matters (and you will have gobs of more resolution than from digital so 100% doesn't have the same meaning).

Nov 08, 2008 at 12:28 AM

khiromu
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p.1 #18 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

Welcome to beautiful world of medium format

You got very good camera with very good price. That camera's got auto exposure mode with built in light meter!! (Not many MF camera has built in light meter coupled with SS and A values...)

As for scanner, I use Epson V500 (or something) that cost a little less than $200. It can scan medium format as well as 35mm. I like the output, which is good enough for me. The only complain I have is that I can only scan two frames of 6x6 or one frame of 6x7...

For developing the films, I use slide printer in Colorado. They pay both shipping, and $4.95 for 120 slides, $4 for 120 negs and B&W. If you only shoot color C-41, you can drop it off at your local WalMart. They will ship your film to Dwaynes in KS and cost less than slide printer.

Anyway, you will enjoy the film/MF world, I am sure... If you don't like it, then you can re-sell your camera. With that price, you may make some $$ on ebay...

Enjoy!!
Hiromu

Nov 10, 2008 at 04:58 AM

dave chilvers
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p.1 #19 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

! had that 645E when it came out( around £600 in the UK)

Anyway, probably as good as most 645 formats with care.

My advice would be to get a few rolls of slide film, make some careful exposures, get them processed at a decent lab and you will then have a good view as to your technique needed and how the metering works out. That will give you a good starting point and save you wasted film in the future. If you can lay your hands on a light meter and use it as an incident reading (where you meter the light falling on the subject rather than reflected from it) you`ll probably save time and film.
If you dive into developing your own films right away then you won`t have any sort of standard to judge your exposures by because processing film can over or under expose the film with just a small shift in temp or time whereas a roll of E6 slide film, processed in a decent lab will go through a set time and temp showing you if and where you went wrong.

The 45mm 2.8 lens is quite good and gives a decent wide view.

Enjoy

Dave

Nov 10, 2008 at 11:22 PM

mawz
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p.1 #20 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

dave chilvers wrote:

The 45mm 2.8 lens is quite good and gives a decent wide view.

Enjoy

Dave

Note that there's two different 45/2.8's. The original 45/2.8 C lens with the 77mm filters is a poor performer, the later S and N versions, with 67mm filters are quite good.

The 55/2.8 is even better, stunningly sharp in the N version.

Nov 10, 2008 at 11:36 PM

dave chilvers
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p.1 #21 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

mawz wrote:
dave chilvers wrote:

The 45mm 2.8 lens is quite good and gives a decent wide view.

Enjoy

Dave

Note that there's two different 45/2.8's. The original 45/2.8 C lens with the 77mm filters is a poor performer, the later S and N versions, with 67mm filters are quite good.

The 55/2.8 is even better, stunningly sharp in the N version.

Yes, I meant the later model

Dave

Nov 11, 2008 at 12:04 AM

josh paris
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p.1 #22 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

Ok-
I received the 645E today.... it was complete with orginial box, instruction, blank warranty card and ad material, the camera itself looks like it hasn't seen hardly any use!
I grabbed some 100speed B/W 120- read the instructions(replaced the meter battery) and went and shot my first roll of Film!!
I did take my light meter with me...but in all honestly I had harder time figuring out how it was metering(but I haven't used it in quite some time...) So I went with the meter on the 645e, tried a few apertures- (note- once I unpacked the 645e and fired the shutter once...I was like 'Oh Boy- this is not a hand held camera, the shutter is like a hammer and the floor shakes!) So I set up everything on a Tripod and used a remote cable..and fired away- Btw, I made the shoot on a very specific place where I had though about for some time.. so I'm excited to see what the results are with guarded enthusiasm.

I will snaps a few pics of the 645e a bit later and post them here!
thanks for all the advice! and keep it coming......I plan to have the negs developed at a local lab to start with and go from there. Josh

Nov 11, 2008 at 01:26 AM

dave chilvers
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p.1 #23 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

josh paris wrote:
Ok-
I received the 645E today.... it was complete with orginial box, instruction, blank warranty card and ad material, the camera itself looks like it hasn't seen hardly any use!
I grabbed some 100speed B/W 120- read the instructions(replaced the meter battery) and went and shot my first roll of Film!!
I did take my light meter with me...but in all honestly I had harder time figuring out how it was metering(but I haven't used it in quite some time...) So I went with the meter on the 645e, tried a few apertures- (note- once I unpacked the 645e and fired the shutter once...I was like 'Oh Boy- this is not a hand held camera, the shutter is like a hammer and the floor shakes!) So I set up everything on a Tripod and used a remote cable..and fired away- Btw, I made the shoot on a very specific place where I had though about for some time.. so I'm excited to see what the results are with guarded enthusiasm.

I will snaps a few pics of the 645e a bit later and post them here!
thanks for all the advice! and keep it coming......I plan to have the negs developed at a local lab to start with and go from there. Josh

Josh

If my memory serves me well, I don`t think that the 645E had a mirror up facility? in which case sometimes(not always) with a reasonable shutter speed the hands and body can absorb a fair amount of shock from a heavy mirror flip. I did some testing just recently where (on a 1 series canon) tripod work without using mirror up didn`t have any advantage over hand holding, with mirror up there was a difference though. With certain tripods (there was an article on here a while back) that proved that there is a fair amount of vibration sent down the legs of a tripod which can take away from overall sharpness. I`ve done my own testing in the past and found with medium format cameras (my old Pentax 6x7 without mirror up) gave great results by sitting the camera on a bean bag sitting on top of the tripod.

All good fun though. Don`t forget a roll or two of E6 slide film to ascertain settings to a known standard.

Dave

Nov 11, 2008 at 02:23 AM

josh paris
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p.1 #24 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

dave chilvers wrote:
josh paris wrote:
Ok-
I received the 645E today.... it was complete with orginial box, instruction, blank warranty card and ad material, the camera itself looks like it hasn't seen hardly any use!
I grabbed some 100speed B/W 120- read the instructions(replaced the meter battery) and went and shot my first roll of Film!!
I did take my light meter with me...but in all honestly I had harder time figuring out how it was metering(but I haven't used it in quite some time...) So I went with the meter on the 645e, tried a few apertures- (note- once I unpacked the 645e and fired the shutter once...I was like 'Oh Boy- this is not a hand held camera, the shutter is like a hammer and the floor shakes!) So I set up everything on a Tripod and used a remote cable..and fired away- Btw, I made the shoot on a very specific place where I had though about for some time.. so I'm excited to see what the results are with guarded enthusiasm.

I will snaps a few pics of the 645e a bit later and post them here!
thanks for all the advice! and keep it coming......I plan to have the negs developed at a local lab to start with and go from there. Josh

Josh

If my memory serves me well, I don`t think that the 645E had a mirror up facility? in which case sometimes(not always) with a reasonable shutter speed the hands and body can absorb a fair amount of shock from a heavy mirror flip. I did some testing just recently where (on a 1 series canon) tripod work without using mirror up didn`t have any advantage over hand holding, with mirror up there was a difference though. With certain tripods (there was an article on here a while back) that proved that there is a fair amount of vibration sent down the legs of a tripod which can take away from overall sharpness. I`ve done my own testing in the past and found with medium format cameras (my old Pentax 6x7 without mirror up) gave great results by sitting the camera on a bean bag sitting on top of the tripod.

All good fun though. Don`t forget a roll or two of E6 slide film to ascertain settings to a known standard.

Dave

Dave-
Thanks- yes the the 645e does have the mirror up option-I completely overlooked it in my excitment to go try out my new toy! But I will try that soon.

I have quite a learning curve with Film....

.. tonight I was switching rolls and the shot roll completely unraveled in my hands!

Ok- explain the slide film concept...is this to confirm the meter settings as to on or up or down I assume?
How would you suggest doing this? Sorry for the NOOB questions! lol!
Josh

Nov 11, 2008 at 02:48 AM

I.G.I.
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p.1 #25 · Pics Added!!! Film help Medium Mamiya 645e!

Congratulations, the camera look terrific! Wish you many a great photo opportunities. You may find APUG forums a great source of information, and inspiration. Have fun

Nov 11, 2008 at 05:35 PM


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