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pookipichu Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #1 · re: Modeling Agencies To all the professionals, please give me some guidance, how many photos do you send to a modeling agency after a test? The agency I started shooting for wants me to send all the images. I don't feel comfortable sending all the images, especially since I wasn't paid for the tests. I have no problem sending 3 retouched photos. I told the agent that if the model wants more he would have to pay. Am I being too stingy, is there a standard practice regarding this? I greatly appreciate advice. PS - I should clarify that I sent thumbnails of all the images but the agency wants high res of all the images from the shoot. May 19, 2008 at 01:16 AM

Daniel K Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #2 · re: Modeling Agencies What are some of the mitigating circumstances to the situation? Was there a contract? Was this for the model or for the photographers portfolio? Was this a TFP? Was this a test shoot for the model or the agency? Do you work with this agency often? If this was a test to see a models potential, they would need to see how the model does overall, so YES they would need to see all the pictures (at least when I used to teach and coach modeling I gave good critique and guidance from looking at all the shots), if thats the case a contract should have been signed in the first place discussing about the use, rights, how many they will get, how the will use the photos, etc... When I used to do modeling, I used to only give images I chose that would be good for a portfolio, and depending on client sometimes I would give them all the images, but we always clarified that before hand. May 19, 2008 at 01:32 AM

pookipichu Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #3 · re: Modeling Agencies Hi Daniel, There was no contract, the test was for the model's portfolio and my portfolio as well. I paid the agency a fee to test so they could get an idea of my work. I just started to shoot for them. I sent them thumbnails of all the images so they could see how the model posese, I just feel uncomfortable because I feel like I am being pressured to give them all my work for free. I feel like it's sort of unfair and I'm getting the impression that most photographers are not required to send high res images of their entire shoot. May 19, 2008 at 01:43 AM

khguitar098 Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #4 · re: Modeling Agencies what do you mean by you paid them a fee?' May 19, 2008 at 03:28 AM

pookipichu Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #5 · re: Modeling Agencies khguitar098 wrote: what do you mean by you paid them a fee?' They charged me to test with their models. May 19, 2008 at 04:16 AM

Micky Bill Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #6 · re: Modeling Agencies Then it doesn't seem like a test and they really don't have a claim on any of the images. Paying isn't testing.... I can understand that they would want to see the entire take of your shoot as they may have a better / different 'eye' than either you or the model and see something that otherwise could be missed. May 19, 2008 at 05:59 AM

Daniel K Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #7 · re: Modeling Agencies I still don't know all the issues of your situation though I can tell you I have never paid to shoot a model unless I hired them for a shoot of some sort. Sounds like they took advantage of you? Thats just my guess. One needs to be carefull when dealing with "some" modeling agencies. I know a lot make most of their profit from selling modeling classes and selling dreams of success to young unknowing clients, so of course they will take advantage of situations that would benefit them. The way it worked with me and a lot of other photog's is that we offer our services at a discount for a guarantee that the agency will send a certain amount of models our way. Me and many others used to set it up in the way that we would have 20 clients in one day, and it was a really quick in quick out shoot, one after another. While I am shooting one session, the others are getting made up by the makeup artist and I would spend maybe 5-10 minutes per model. This was usually done with beginning models, and it worked out very well. May 19, 2008 at 09:19 AM

shatterkiss Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #8 · re: Modeling Agencies Out of curiosity, what agency was it? I've dealt with a bunch of the ones here in NYC. If they charged you a fee, then it's technically no longer a test and you really don't owe them any images. You'll have the rights to use the images you shot in your own portfolios and self-promotion, but not more than that. If you want to cultivate a relationship with this agency, I'd recommend finishing a handful of images for them and letting them hang on to the proofsheet of all the others...and tell them that if they want more/different images that they can make their selects and you'll happily furnish them with those images if they refund the fee you paid. Moving forward, it's not uncommon for an agency to request copies of all the images you shot in a test (minus the obvious losers that no one should see), but you also shouldn't be paying to test. Eventually, if you demonstrate the skill and reliability that an agency is looking for, they should be paying you for tests of their new faces. May 19, 2008 at 02:06 PM

pookipichu Offline Buy and Sell: On p.1 #9 · re: Modeling Agencies I don't want to use their name or burn bridges. I just wanted to develop a relationship with them, and I know I have the rights to the photos. I'm just perturbed because I have done everythig I can to hold up my end. I sent them a digital proofsheet with thumbnails of all the images within 1 day of each shoot and have been ready to send them three high res per a model. shatterkiss wrote: Out of curiosity, what agency was it? I've dealt with a bunch of the ones here in NYC. If they charged you a fee, then it's technically no longer a test and you really don't owe them any images. You'll have the rights to use the images you shot in your own portfolios and self-promotion, but not more than that. If you want to cultivate a relationship with this agency, I'd recommend finishing a handful of images for them and letting them hang on to the proofsheet of all the others...and tell them that if they want more/different images that they can make their selects and you'll happily furnish them with those images if they refund the fee you paid. Moving forward, it's not uncommon for an agency to request copies of all the images you shot in a test (minus the obvious losers that no one should see), but you also shouldn't be paying to test. Eventually, if you demonstrate the skill and reliability that an agency is looking for, they should be paying you for tests of their new faces. May 19, 2008 at 02:28 PM

sspellman Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #10 · re: Modeling Agencies pookipichu- Just to be clear-even though you own the pictures, you will need a written model release to use the pictures to fully promote your commercial business. Likewise, the model/agency will need a written license from you to use the pictures to commercially promote their modeling services. As the photographer, it is your responsibility to get the release signed before the shoot starts, and verbal agreements will not hold up in court. It should be clear to you that agencies don't normally charge fees for test shoots. The agency should first arrange to get the model to sign the model release, and then you could discuss providing more pictures. The agency's actions in this situation suggest that they do not take you seriously as a photographer. Good Luck- Scott May 19, 2008 at 05:00 PM

shatterkiss Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #11 · re: Modeling Agencies Scott - In the test shoots I've done with major modeling agencies I've never seen a release change hands. In fact, I've never seen an agency that will allow their models to sign a release on a test shoot that was arranged by the agency testing booker. If you want a commercial release, you need to pay the going rate for the model, period. Unpaid tests are usually done with the understanding that the shooter can use the images in his/her portfolio and the agency can use the images in the model's comp cards and book and agency website, but that's about it on both fronts. Unpaid (or even paid) agency tests are frequently an area of handshake deals, not signed agreements. They're conducted fairly casually, not in the manner of paid commercial jobs. You want into an agency, show your book, say "what new faces are available for testing?" and walk out with a few comp cards and a shoot set up for later in the week. There isn't generally paper exchanged. May 19, 2008 at 05:09 PM

sspellman Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #12 · re: Modeling Agencies Simon- That might be the norm for NYC, but in my smaller market of Detroit I simply do not see the point of doing any work where you might not be able to use the pictures for your portfolio. I have a special model release that gives me and the model portfolio rights and have not had a problem with agencies here. I dont spend alot of time testing because the business is limited, and I don't do any work without contracts-because crap like this can happen too frequently. -Scott Edited on May 19, 2008 at 08:06 PM May 19, 2008 at 08:05 PM

tcphoto Offline Image Upload: Off p.1 #13 · re: Modeling Agencies I have not shot models in NYC but have a signed Models Release for every "paid test" that I have done. Most were with the better Agencies in my market and the release states they can use the images for portfolio, compcard and Agency promotional pieces. They cannot authorize use by a Third Party or sell Usage. I would deliver proofs that are large enough to review and two edited images from each look from those tests. Since it appears that you have nothing in writing, I would deliver proofs that are large enough to review and that is it. They charged you to test their model? In eleven years as a model and eighteen as a photographer, this is the first time I have heard this and I'd be mad as hell. If they want to get edited files they will have to pay for them. Otherwise, I would distance myself from them because they are conducting themselves in a manner that I wouldn't want to be associated with. May 21, 2008 at 01:25 PM

bka20d Offline Image Upload: On p.1 #14 · re: Modeling Agencies pookipichu wrote: Hi Daniel, There was no contract, the test was for the model's portfolio and my portfolio as well. I paid the agency a fee to test so they could get an idea of my work. I just started to shoot for them. I sent them thumbnails of all the images so they could see how the model posese, I just feel uncomfortable because I feel like I am being pressured to give them all my work for free. I feel like it's sort of unfair and I'm getting the impression that most photographers are not required to send high res images of their entire shoot. all modeling agencies especially here in ny are not created equal... some agencies routinely refer to a modeling assignment for a photog that is portfolio building driven as opposed to client(print, magazine-specific editorial ) driven a "test". the test designation is often tied to how the models fee for your job is structured.. it also may have implications for use. if you paid the agency for a model, then the agency is not entitled to any photographs unless you specifically agreed that you would provide them with some shots. if the agency was paid, the model was also paid and is not entitled to any of your work either( goodwill is another issue) in situations where you have paid the agency for a model, there should be a release. the better agencies who rep exclusives will sign the release on behalf of the model, the other agencies who do not rep a model on an exclusive basis (and there are plenty of them here in nyc) , will have the model sign the release. (typically done at the end of the shoot when the model is asking that the when i have done free tests for an agency, there is no release, with everyone understanding that the use is for agency,model and photographer portfolios. the models are generally new to the agency and they are looking to build the models portfolio..when i do a free test, it is usually because i want to try something different, or am trying out a new make-up artist or stylist.: i know what the agency is generally looking for and shoot those shots, and then shoot the stuff i want for me. on the occassions i agreed to test where the agency was paying me, they wanted to see the best of the images for each wardrobe change. every one does thing his or her own way, but i would not consider building a relationship with any agency that required me to pay them to shoot a model, and provide them with high rez files in order to be considered for future work by them...your portfolio should be a good indicator of the quality of work you are capable of. Edited on May 22, 2008 at 01:39 AM May 21, 2008 at 09:35 PM

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