p.1 #1 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Hi,
I bought a brand new Summicron APO 90 mm R and just converted it to Nikonmount (Leitax-mount).
I find the focusring very stiff (even more than the Zeiss ZF 100). Maybe this is due to the fact that the lens was probably unused since manufactring a few years earlier (it maybe lied on the shelf for a few years).
Is this normal for the 90AA and does this change by using it more often. Can I do something about it myself? Do I have to send it to Leica (...with the mount converted) and does adapting it costs a lot of money (being broke already by buying it)? Than I can send my 180/2.8 APO too, since that lens has a focusring that to my feeling is a little bit too smooth....
p.1 #3 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
I don't have experience with the R version of 90AA, but the M version has medium stiffness in the focus ring, equivalent to the 80 Lux R. The 35 Lux R has a stiff focusing ring, and the recent teles >= 180mm all have very light resistance. I understand that Leica has different degrees of viscosity in their lubricant armamentarium that you can request. If you just bought it new, then you have plenty of time to get it serviced for free. So, I would use it a bit to see if the focusing ring loosens up before sending it for service.
p.1 #4 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
The 90AA R has a rep for VERY smooth focus. I've owned and shot multiple copies and the lens should be buttery smooth -- essentially one-finger focus. I'd convert it back to R mount (to avoid ANY issues at Leica) and send it to Solms with a description of the issue - that or work out something with the vendor. Don't heat it, etc - the lens has VERY tight tolerances and won't react well to any DIY work (beyond simply swapping the mount of course).
NOTE: APO glass like the 90AA R need to go back to the factory for even a CLA - matter of required testing hardware needed to ensure lens is (hopefully) in spec post-service. Any reputable Leica shop should tell you this accordingly. Just be warned, it could take awhile.
Older R lenses like the 90/2, 80/1.4 (especially the 80) hare more deliberate focus than more modern R lenses but they can develop STIFF focus if left as collector shelf queens or neglected over the years. They'll never be as slick as the 90AA and more modern R glass, but a CLA will help. They can be serviced by any reputable Leica shop.
The 180/2.8APO is a lens with VERY 'fast' focus. Takes almost too little effort to shift the focus point radically. Exceptional lens, but that is normal and it does bother some folks a lot. I didn't mind it, but it isn't for everyone. A heavier-weight lubricant than the specs call for MIGHT help, but I have no idea if Leica would accommodate you or to what degree it would assist.
p.1 #5 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Peter, I suspect that you've applied too much force when grabbing the lens to un-screw the Leica mount. That operation should have affected the perfect roundness of the focussing ring stiffening it and compromising its smoothness. Mine's just a guess of course. Have you checked the focus ring before mounting the Leitax adapter?
p.1 #7 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Emanuele_C wrote:
Peter, I suspect that you've applied too much force when grabbing the lens to un-screw the Leica mount. That operation should have affected the perfect roundness of the focussing ring stiffening it and compromising its smoothness. Mine's just a guess of course. Have you checked the focus ring before mounting the Leitax adapter?
Ciao,
Emanuele
Well actually the conversion of the 90 APO was very very troublesome (unlike that of the 180APO although also here unscrewing the bajonet is a delicate matter).
One of the screws was so screwed in that I could not get it out and I had to 'burr' the head of the screw out to take the bajonet off. Even though the screwdriver I use is very good fitting (better even - I find - than the one I bought from Leitax), it could not make the screw turn and ruint the head of the screw.
Clearly this was a very unpleasant experience, but I managed to change it to the Nikonmount but only 5 of the 6 screws are in place. It fittes really tied and image quality is superb.
On the other hand the focusring is much to stiff. I already said to a friend it founded it stiff when I got the lens (a brand new one, bought in a shop in the UK) but as I have no Leica R of adapter for EOS, I did not check its stiffness 'on the camerabody'. Now I do not know if it was already as stiff as before the conversion.
I really cannot imagine tearing on the ring.
I do not want to change it back to the Leica mount as I do not know if this is such a good idea for using the same screws again (I do not want to loose another one).
As the lens is brand new it came with a 2 years warranty, however since the bajonet is changed (and one screw is ruined), I hope they will be able to fix the issue and hopefully not at a large cost. Does anyone have an idea if they need to lift the bajonet of the lens to do something on the focus ring (because then I have to unscrew it and change it back to Leica mount, which I am a bit anxious of...) and in such cases if this comes at a high price?
p.1 #8 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Sounds like you go a copy that was sub-par focusing wise. The 90AA R, even simply in hand with no camera body as an 'anchor', should be buttery smooth focus. Not as 'fast' as the 180, but very smooth.
Unless you can replace the damaged machine screw, changing to back to R before sending into service won't help, as will be obvious you modified the lens. I'd contact the seller and see if you can work something out to lower your servicing costs. The folks at Leitax might also be able to get you a replacement screw as well.
p.1 #9 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Frank, did you manage to solve the focus ring stiffness on your 90 APO?
I've had a similar experience with my 90/2APO Asph when changing the bayonet from R to Nikon F using the Leitax solution. When the lens arrived, the first thing I did was to test it and all was perfect: buttery focus ring, precise aperture ring etc. After changing the mount from Leica R to Nikon F, the focus ring became stiff. At first I thought I damaged the lens so I've unscrewed the Leitax bayonet to replace it with the R one to send the lens to Solms but, surprise, after removing the Leitax the focus ring was smooth again!
I'm not an expert but probably all depends on the very tight tolerances of the Leica lens... so I decided to have another try... this time tightening the screws progressively and testing the smoothness of the focus ring at every single screw turn (a quite long task but not difficult at all). All went well and the lens is now perfect, has the new Leitax bayonet and the focus ring is buttery as it should be. Obviously, it's sharp as a razor...
p.1 #10 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Hi Emanuele,
I have send my lens to Leica and they have put a new original bajonet on it. Everything was perfect again but I sold the lens since I did not want to damage it....
p.1 #11 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Emanuele_C wrote:
Frank, did you manage to solve the focus ring stiffness on your 90 APO?
I've had a similar experience with my 90/2APO Asph when changing the bayonet from R to Nikon F using the Leitax solution. When the lens arrived, the first thing I did was to test it and all was perfect: buttery focus ring, precise aperture ring etc. After changing the mount from Leica R to Nikon F, the focus ring became stiff. At first I thought I damaged the lens so I've unscrewed the Leitax bayonet to replace it with the R one to send the lens to Solms but, surprise, after removing the Leitax the focus ring was smooth again!
I'm not an expert but probably all depends on the very tight tolerances of the Leica lens... so I decided to have another try... this time tightening the screws progressively and testing the smoothness of the focus ring at every single screw turn (a quite long task but not difficult at all). All went well and the lens is now perfect, has the new Leitax bayonet and the focus ring is buttery as it should be. Obviously, it's sharp as a razor... ...Show more →
With two of you experiencing the same issue, it sounds like there may be a problem with the Leitax conversion adapter and the 90/2 AA. Maybe the supplied Leitax screws are a tad too long, or there's some other issue that hasn't been noticed until now. I own the 90/2 AA and the focus ring is very smooth. I use regular R-EOS adapters on a 5D2 without any issues, but have never tried the Leitax conversion kit that uses long screws. Leitax needs to be notified so that they can look into this situation, and maybe make a modification if necessary.
Scott
p.1 #12 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Update:
Out of curiosity, I visited the Leitax site and clicked on the link for adapting the Leica 90/2/AA and here's a note that I found:
"CAUTION!
This lens has very tight tolerances at the focus ring, and it is very sensitive to micro-deformations in the barrel. When screwing the Leitax bayonet, please tight the screws progressively and test the smoothness of the focus ring until it begins to be too stiff for your taste."
So evidently, this is a known issue when installing a Leitax-EOS adapter on a Leica 90/2/AA lens. I can't help but think that slightly shorter screws would solve the problem...but I'm just guessing.
Cheers,
Scott
p.1 #13 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Great find, Scott. I didn't notice Leitax's note regarding the 90/2APO Asph but I'm glad I was right about its very tight tolerances: I've avoided to send the lens back to Solms for ... nothing.
Peter, I'm sorry to hear you've sold the 90/2, it's a great lens on Nikon's. I hope you'll have a better luck with the Zeiss ZF 100/2 or whatever you bought.
p.1 #15 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Frank-Starling wrote:
Well actually the conversion of the 90 APO was very very troublesome (unlike that of the 180APO although also here unscrewing the bajonet is a delicate matter).
One of the screws was so screwed in that I could not get it out and I had to 'burr' the head of the screw out to take the bajonet off. Even though the screwdriver I use is very good fitting (better even - I find - than the one I bought from Leitax), it could not make the screw turn and ruint the head of the screw.
Peter
Hi Peter,
I do need to draw on your experience regarding the unscrewing of the original screws on the Leica bayonet. I have just received my Leitax Leica mount to EOS but unfortunately was not able to attach it as my screw driver chipped (flat type) and the Phillips scewdriver worn off as they are both cheap non industrial grade type. I have since placed an order from David of Leitax for the recommended screw driver which I understand is an industrial grade and should do the job unscrewing the original screw. I have stopped further attempt to unscrew the original screws until the arrival of the Irazola screwdriver. I would sure want to avoid "blurring" of a damadged screwhead. My question.... was the original screw which was screwed tightly a similar problem with your other lenses? I had smilar problem with all my three Leica lenses.
p.1 #16 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Unscrewing the screws is a delicate matter. In fact I ordered the screwdriver from David and afterwards even went to a professional material shop to order the very best screwdriver they had available.
However the issue is not the screwdriver I think but more the screws that are screwed in firmly. I have now converted the 28R,80R and the 180RAPO and in all of them it was not easy for all screws. I think the screws are screwed in mechanically or maybe it is the time in between production and the 'leitaxing' that makes this screws being fixed firmly.
I think the best way to do it is to hold the lens in one hand and the screwdriver in the other and apply a certain amount of pressure on the screwdriver at the first turn.
However unscrewing is delicate and if you experience that the scredriver slips out, do not insist to much - wait and relax a bit and try a bit later. I guess I was a bit excited and wanted the thing to be finished as soon as possible.
p.1 #17 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Frank,
Did you by chance look closely at the ends of the original Leica screws that you removed to see if there was any colored residue on the threads? From the resistance you have described removing the original Leica screws...it makes me wonder if Leica applies a bit of a 'Locktite' type substance to them before they install them. Along with that, maybe they use a some kind of torquing screw driver to install them to just the right tightness.
If they did use some sort of Locktite, that would explain why you guys are having such a hard time backing the screws out.
From my experience (done a lot of screwing), it's not necessarily how great the quality of the screwdriver (or tip/bit) is - it's the fit. Especially if they are slotted screws. You want to use a tip that fills the slot as fully and snugly as possible. You also want a big enough handle on the driver that you can get good 'purchase' (just because the tip you're using is small doesn't mean that the driver body itself needs to be). Then applying good force (straight down - not at an angle)...start backing the screw out.
Cheers,
Scott
p.1 #19 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Anon Moss wrote:
Frank,
Did you by chance look closely at the ends of the original Leica screws that you removed to see if there was any colored residue on the threads?
Scott,
I can confirm this: once unscrewed, one can clearly see a yellow substance at the end of the screw. This material is present on all the screws (reporting my experience on the 90AA). Once removed the original mount, installed the new one and fixed it again with the original screws, they are not so difficult to unscrew again, no matter the force applied to screw them. So your guess could be correct.
As for the Leitax mount stiffness. I suspect (IMHO) that the different fabrication tolerances are the culprit: I used the original Leica's screws to install it. My guess is that the Leitax bayonet screw holes are a bit deeper than the Leica R bayonet and the screws go a little further into the lens. Again, my guess.
All in all, I found the Leitax product to be very well machined and made to last. I use the 90AA on my D5000 almost every day and I couldn't be more satisfied. I'm also thinking to buy a Dandelion chip and install it to have the lens data in the EXIF and for a correct metering on entry-level bodies like the 5000.
p.1 #20 · Leica Summicron APO 90 mm R stiff focus ring
Frank-Starling wrote:
I think the best way to do it is to hold the lens in one hand and the screwdriver in the other and apply a certain amount of pressure on the screwdriver at the first turn.
Peter,
Success and thank you. I followed your advice and applied pressure and turned slowly. In any case, I used the incorrect size 0 instead of size 00 Phillips screwdriver. David form Leitax had kindly alerted me.
Also managed to programmed the Dandelion chip, f2.0 and 50mm for the Summicron, manual focus. Will attempt correction of focus confirmation dot later as I need to understand the instructions.
I will be placing order for two more mounts soon.
Sorry folks, I don't mean to hijack this thread but I believe there are others who may benefit from this.
