p.1 #1 · Sprint Cars,Dirt Racing Photography C&C, Open Discussion
OK, I seldom post but lurk everyday and decided to plunge in and get some help.
I shoot most Motorsports and within that genre, mostly Sprint Cars.
I would like any and all C&C on each set for not only composure, exposure and techniques. But alos post processing ideas.
These are right off my site, I basically tweak curves or contrast, crop and sharpen. Some NN on some if required on artificial light shots
p.1 #2 · Sprint Cars,Dirt Racing Photography C&C, Open Discussion
Hey Steve,
Man those little sprints are tough to shoot! The super late models at one of the 1/3 mile tracks I cover qualify at 12+ to 13+ seconds, then the sprints come out and race at 11+ second laps. That makes a huge difference when you are trying to get a good camera sweep and stay on target. Add to that, a ton of dust and crappy lighting and you have your hands full!
Here's a little C&C and some friendly advice. First as for your post processing...It's pretty much the same as mine. If levels, crop and unsharp mask don't fix a shot it goes to the recycle ben. Much more than that, at least for me, the PP becomes too noticeable. Not to mention it's too much work. That being said, your shots here are a tad soft and could use a little more color punch.
Pans are nice and any race shooter should be able to crank them out as often as he likes, but don't get too hung up on them. Dirt track racing has other elements you can use to suggest motion. A rooster tail of dirt, front wheels off the ground, even the posture of the driver can get the point across. I will monkey around with pans during qualifying and hot laps but when the lights come on I flash the crap out of the rest of the program.
Which leads me to flash. Without getting into settings and technicalities let me just say, learn it and use it. It can make the difference between getting a couple hundred “keepers” or very few to no keepers depending on the conditions. With a little practice you can show motion even with the flash freeze.
You can see some of my dirt track shots here http://binghamfreelance.smugmug.com/Lucas%20Oil%20Late%20Model%20Dirt%20Racing%20Tour. Haven’t shot the sprints yet but I think you can make the connection.
p.1 #3 · Sprint Cars,Dirt Racing Photography C&C, Open Discussion
<<Which leads me to flash. Without getting into settings and technicalities let me just say>>
Thats Exactly what I wanted you to get into Marty!!
I shoot ISO 800, flash on manual at 1/4 to 1/4 +3 or 7 SS around 200 and up depending on distance.
Then for checkered flag shots I'll go on HSS and shoot ISO 1600 SS 800 on full power from about almost center of infield
How do YOU do it?
It is a bugger of a night of shooting but thats our world right?
I figured I would put it out there and see how many ideas I could get from what I consider some of the best sports photog's in the world.
I believe if there was a way to get the flash to fire right "before" the shutter starts to open we could catch the light "falling off" My unexpert thinking says this would give us nice color, less noise and we should be able to pick up some movement.
By the way, Thats a great looking speedway, I just shot the World Of Outlaws at the Kings Royal at Eldora, Your track looks very similar. gotta hate those infield fences!!
Oh Yea!!, 5 Late Models in a single shot...... Crazy Good
p.1 #4 · Sprint Cars,Dirt Racing Photography C&C, Open Discussion
From a composition standpoint, I like these overall for one hugely, noticable reason: none of these are artificially tilted up or down.
That's what I hate about motorsports shooters. I don't know why you have to shoot cars zooming upward or downward. What's wrong with a level horizon? Maybe I'm too much of an editorial/PJ shooter but I find nothing appealing about bikes, late models, off-road, or road course cars angled up or down 25-35 degrees.
So this may be the only time I comment on what I consider decent composition. That's about all I'll say.
As for my perspective, retort all you (in general) want. That tilt stuff just doesn't work for me.
p.1 #5 · Sprint Cars,Dirt Racing Photography C&C, Open Discussion
Steve lamothe wrote:
I shoot ISO 800, flash on manual at 1/4 to 1/4 +3 or 7 SS around 200 and up depending on distance.How do YOU do it?
I gotta start looking at people's websites before replying.........you should be giving me pointers
I tried a lot of flash stuff, including settings similar to what you describe. For the first couple seasons I went up and down the settings scale every which way I could think of including rear curtain sync, manual camera w/ TTL flash, manual flash and auto camera, flash and camera both on manual, both on auto etc......... an Alien Bee 800 on a stick and a witch doctor.
After all that the final sweet spot, I hate to say, is pretty unglamorous. Camera on aperture priority, ISO 400, flash on TTL with exposure compensation set at - 1/3 to - 1 full stop depending on track lighting. The shutter speed goes to 1/60th by default, which means you need to pan the shot to avoid ghosting.
Like all settings, these are only good for that particular camera at that particular split second but it may give you an idea to play with .
And yeah........I'm with you on the tilting deal Indy!
p.1 #6 · Sprint Cars,Dirt Racing Photography C&C, Open Discussion
snaptie2002 wrote:
I gotta start looking at people's websites before replying.........you should be giving me pointers
, funny! But thank you for the compliment Marty, You can ask me anything!
What is an SB800 on a stick?
I'd be interested in hearing about that and your results.
I find if I leave the camera in an auto mode and the flash in ETTL it dosent throw anywhere near enough light, What ISO are you on in this configuration?
I also found that by using 1/4 power and a Quantum I can recycle pretty fast, less than a second.
How fast does your set-up recycle?
p.1 #7 · Sprint Cars,Dirt Racing Photography C&C, Open Discussion
Andy shot is super nice
Steve you know me; I like your shot’s
I jumped up my equipment this year (after a little rain storm at the track) when I get above 1200 iso it gets to grainy for me but with the extra light I’m liking it
I’ve been trying something new this year by placing a couple flash units in the area I’m shooting so I’m running three flash units at Skagit (one in front of the car and one in the back plus the one on my camera) these has help a lot but with what I do I can’t always do it night after night I have other things going on at the track but at Chico it sure would be easy !
Normal night I’m only running my iso up to 800 with and SB900 flash unit set to manual at 1/8 (most of the time) SB900 is so much better than the SB800 (my opinion) but like I said earlier I have many things to do during the main event’s so 90% of my track shots are in the hot laps and TT.
Right now this part of the season I’m mostly doing multi car shot’s single car shot’s when they change their paint on their cars
Now if you could tell me how to shot in a dust bowl
p.1 #8 · Sprint Cars,Dirt Racing Photography C&C, Open Discussion
Steve lamothe wrote:
What is an SB800 on a stick?
I also found that by using 1/4 power and a Quantum I can recycle pretty fast, less than a second.
How fast does your set-up recycle?
Steve
The AB 800 on a stick looked good on paper........I found a paint roller extension handle at the hardware store that fit perfectly into the socket on the Alien Bee. We put the light on the pole, hooked it up to a Vagabond II and fired it up. I thought we could get far enough back from the cars to spread the light and reduce the fall off from one car to the next. It didn't work
Our on camera flashes are SB-800's with an attachment for one extra AA battery . We can shoot 400 - 500 shots without changing batteries. Haven't clocked the recycle times but we can usually get about 4 shots per lap if the cars are in a tight pack, more if they are scattered. I'm not pushing for much more because I don't want to overheat anything.
p.1 #9 · Sprint Cars,Dirt Racing Photography C&C, Open Discussion
BSimonseth wrote:
Steve you know me; I like your shot’s
I’ve been trying something new this year by placing a couple flash units in the area I’m shooting so I’m running three flash units at Skagit (one in front of the car and one in the back plus the one on my camera)
Now if you could tell me how to shot in a dust bowl
#1) Brian, Ditto!! and Thank You
#2) And I thought of doing this using tripods and Pocket Wizards, Are you firing with remotes?
Can you post an example of a close up corner shot using the technique?
#3) Man the dreaded dust bowl, when this happens I usually just go off flash and crank up ISO to 6400, slow don the SS and open her up and pan,pan and pan.
Although while shooting Eldora a few weeks ago I was discussing this with a very accomplished dirt racing photographer (Mike Campbell) and he mentioned he lowers his flash power and increases ISO and adjust his Aperture and gets decent results.
I tried it and did see some possiblities in the technique
Marty,
It sounds like your flash on a stick was similar to what Brian is doing using mulitple flashes, Getting the "AREA" lit instead on a direct point of light, I also believe that moving the flash back will increase the sense of movement as this should take the light just a tad longer to hit the cars, but again, thats just me thinking out loud for the sake of this discussion.
Any thoughts on that? care to post any flash on a stick results?
Thanks for all the input guys, I think this type of sharing and discussion will generate ingenuity and experimentaion that will lead to better photography.
I just hope some of the seasoned pro's chime in with their thoughts, even if this isnt their Genre.
p.1 #10 · Sprint Cars,Dirt Racing Photography C&C, Open Discussion
Much better! I'm feelin' the motion......you can definitely add panning to your bag of tricks.
The problem I run into panning dirt cars at super low shutter speeds is the vertical motion of the cars on the rough tracks causes unwanted blur. It also causes problems when shooting two or more cars. They are seldom traveling the exact same speed so the slower the shutter the more likely the difference will stand out. I can't read the exif since my Firefox browser took on a life of it's own but I wouldn't change anything you have for these shots as far as trying to shoot slower.
p.1 #11 · Sprint Cars,Dirt Racing Photography C&C, Open Discussion
Thank You Marty,
And I'm with you on that vertical movement and oscilating speeds. It's a tough shoot no doubt.
I've tried panning my 300 on a mono pod with a ball head and have failed for those exact reasons I believe.
I'd sure llike to hear how others do it and see some examples. I know if we share a few trade secrets we can all become better dirt motorsports photographers.
Thanks for your input Marty,
you know I'm a big fan of your work also.
Steve
