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Archive 2008 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?

  
 
SeanP
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p.1 #1 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


im wondering who has actually gone to school for photography vs other methods of learning, especially with the pros here. my interest in photography just seems to be growing and, while ive always been the type to learn things on my own, i want to be exposed to as much good information as possible. I wont get into the feasibleness of me quitting my stable job and going off to photography school, but i was wondering how people feel about this in general


Oct 15, 2008 at 09:01 PM
j.curtis
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p.1 #2 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


Learning things by the book never hurts. You will never learn as much as from doing. Most community colleges have some sort of photography program. I would suggest fitting in a class or two around your schedule.

More importantly I would try to find a local photographer that you can assist and learn from. You will learn 10 fold in a shorter amount of time then you will ever learn from school.

If you can do both you will be a much better rounded photographer for it. If you can only do one, do the later.



Oct 15, 2008 at 09:11 PM
SeanP
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p.1 #3 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


oh i should mention the school i was looking at was hallmark institute. seems like a good program and a good way to get in the door, and its 10 months. i dont know much about it though, just browsed the website


Oct 15, 2008 at 09:15 PM
eventhestreets
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p.1 #4 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


SeanP wrote:
oh i should mention the school i was looking at was hallmark institute. seems like a good program and a good way to get in the door, and its 10 months. i dont know much about it though, just browsed the website


I looked into Hallmark a bunch a few years back, and it is a really solid place. Especially if you are serious about photography. If I could've afforded it, I def would have gone. Who knows, I still might someday.

Cheers,
-Jason

http://www.jasongaskins.com



Oct 15, 2008 at 09:46 PM
SeanP
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p.1 #5 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


Jason,

do you recall how much it costs roughly? i couldnt find it on their site. looks like you have to buy a medium format camera too which would be awesome to have but obviously will set anyone back. the money thing would be the biggest issue for me too, no large savings put aside or rich parents unfortunately

thanks



Oct 15, 2008 at 09:57 PM
eventhestreets
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p.1 #6 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


SeanP wrote:
Jason,

do you recall how much it costs roughly? i couldnt find it on their site. looks like you have to buy a medium format camera too which would be awesome to have but obviously will set anyone back. the money thing would be the biggest issue for me too, no large savings put aside or rich parents unfortunately

thanks


Not sure if this is still accurate:
http://oracle-web.petersons.com/ccc92/display_pdf?p_instance_id=123778.pdf

But it's $30,950. Which is pretty hefty for a 10 month program.

Cheers,
-Jason

http://www.jasongaskins.com



Oct 15, 2008 at 10:26 PM
SeanP
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p.1 #7 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


thanks for the link. ya, thats a lot...


Oct 15, 2008 at 10:54 PM
Sid Ceaser
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p.1 #8 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


SeanP wrote:
im wondering who has actually gone to school for photography vs other methods of learning, especially with the pros here. My interest in photography just seems to be growing and, while I've always been the type to learn things on my own, i want to be exposed to as much good information as possible. I wont get into the feasibleness of me quitting my stable job and going off to photography school, but i was wondering how people feel about this in general



My experience has led me to form three camps of photographers: 1. the fine art university, 2. a commercial photography school, and 3. the self-taught.


o Personally, I went to a four year fine arts university with a major in photography. The school was close and affordable, which was a major factor in where I chose to attend. Over my four years there I was given plenty of studio time, learned how to take criticisms and critiques without being angered by those who shared their thoughts, and was able to network with many students and instructors (who were also practicing artists all in their own right). I also got a chance to work in other mediums, and take lots of history courses that helped me show where photography has been into where it is going.

The one (arguably) negative aspect about a more "fine arts" education, is the (at least where I was attending at the time) complete lack of any classes that cover business or business management. It also did not cover much in the way of commercial photography or commercial lighting at all. We were taught our basic lighting setups, and the history of these lighting techniques, but anything more than that (multiple setup lighting, etc) wasn't discussed. Also, this type of schooling isn't geared toward commercial jobs; it is more about developing relationships with fine art galleries and finding good matches that will sell your works. I'd say there about 1% of fine artists that can make a living off of gallery works, so there are a lot of fine art students graduating and then not having the ability to find creative-related jobs. A fine art university teaches you ". . . how to live your life enriched with the arts. . .", and doesn't teach you how to get a job to support yourself (more or less told to me by the Dean of Academics.) I've had many graduates of my alma matter contact me after graduating asking how I've gotten to the point where I am at, simply because the very next day after graduating, they haven't the slightest idea of what to do next.

Because of the lack of business instruction and education, I find trying to run my small business a daunting task - marketing is my big fault, and how to market myself has kept me moving slower than others in my area who are more educated with it.

o Commercial Photography schools, like Hallmark, are great intensive schools that teach you how to shoot more commercially, and give you the current tools to do so. They also provide superb (so I've heard) job assistance so that when completing the schooling, you'll be able to land with your feet on the ground running to help pay off the 40,000$ you just spent for the last 10 months of classes This type of avenue gives you access to working commercial photographers, top of the line gear, and keeps you current with advances in technology. The downside of course, is the cost, and that not everyone can find a gig right out of school.

o Then you have the "school-of-hard-knocks" way of learning - no proper schooling, just learning online, reading books, experimenting and if possible, finding a local photographer to work for as an assistant. Being an assistant is great if you can secure that valuable position. Now that digital photography is the norm, there are more and more photographers that are in this group. Seeing instant results helps you learn faster and easier.

I think all three of these venues are good, and it really depends on a few factors; 1. what type of photography you think you will be interested in (fine art, portraiture, commercial, etc), and what your best way of learning is (reading? hands-on? online? assisting? etc), and that is really something only you know.

I see lots of people that poo-poo Universities, and just as many university schooled that poo-poo learning on your own; both of these are valuable ways of educating yourself and helping foster your talents.

But make sure you take some level of business and marketing courses. That old adage of "20% shooting and 80% business management" rings true.

Sorry for the rambling.

Cheers,
Sid



Oct 16, 2008 at 10:08 AM
Studio20
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p.1 #9 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


Hey Sean,
I did go to Hallmark, it was a huge expense, what they tell you is the tuition is 30k and then you still need to buy the gear for another $5500 and there are some other expenses too not covered all in all i spent around 39k for 10 months to go there!
if i had to do it again, i think i would invest in gear and work for someone, the startup costs to run a studio on my own are way too expensive without a client base, gear is always needing to be upgraded, the camera is just a tool like a hammer to a carpenter....overall tho the school was good the 1st 1/2 of the year and the 2nd 1/2 you where basically on your own, so if you didnt pay attention in the 1st 1/2 you where screwed, was it worth the 39k+........NO!
would i do it again.....yes if it was about 1/4 of that price!



Oct 16, 2008 at 10:49 AM
bobl
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p.1 #10 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


PPofA (Professional Photographers of America) is an excellent organization. They have ongoing programs nationally as well as locally. They are especially beneficial to portrait and wedding photographers. I attended their school (Winona School of Professional Photography) when it was in Winona Lake, Indiana. In 1988 they moved the school to Chicago. You can get more information about PPofA and it's programs here: http://www.ppa.com/education-events/

Bob



Oct 16, 2008 at 01:05 PM
SeanP
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p.1 #11 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


Sid, thanks for the great reply! your advice sounds really solid. the distinction makes sense, i guess i really have to do a lot of thinking. i checked out your website and noticed youre out of nashua, nh, thats my hometown! im in manchester now myself. i like your work, nice shot of michael buckley

studio 20, thanks a lot of the advice, good to hear from someone who actually went to hallmark. yeah, the money thing is really rough, if i were to someday go there i have no idea how i would swing it. it almost seems as though you would have to get an excellent commercial job immediately after to make it worth it.



Oct 16, 2008 at 01:15 PM
whitetail
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p.1 #12 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


I tried taking a photography class, but I found that it made things tedious. I already knew most of the stuff they were teaching, and making homework out of photography put a damper on things. So I dropped it and continue making progress on my own.


Oct 16, 2008 at 01:16 PM
filmchaser
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p.1 #13 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


Sean,
This is my experience, and noted, everyone may have different experiences.

I started shooting around my freshman year in high school. My Uncle gave me a nice camera and lense around my my senior year. I shot for the yearbook and any other opportunity I could find. I went to a University with a really good Art program and graduated with a BFA Degree with emphasis in Graphic Design. BUT I had to be classically trained in Painting, Sculpture,Drawing, Art History, and Photography. I could have majored in Photograpahy with one or two more classes (don't remember which) but chose GD because as mentioned earlier "art" schools don't usually address comercial work. By my Sophmore year in college I had been working (for free) with one of the best portrait/wedding photographers in the area. And through his generous hand me downs was able to "cheaply" aquire a Hasselblaud and two zeiss lenses as well as have access to other equipment on a need basis. So, I started shooting portraits, and weddings etc. for friends, friends of friends, or non-compete individuals as respect for the photog helping me.(we discussed it up front) Eventually, he started passing along shoots from time to time or even letting me shoot some at his shoots. (huge compliment to me!) Many years later we are still friends though living in different areas.

Ok, so how does all this tie together? I have seen both avenues and feel this about it. My skills are driven by passion to be better and learn more. Art school was great for intense understanding of composition, negative space, design, color, dark room techniques, and how people are affected visually.But, it didn't teach me anything really about posing, interacting with people when they are nervous, what kind of pressure the bride is under at her wedding, how to coax the personality out of senior scared to death at their first photo shoot, or why you can't charge X amount and expect to stay in business. I would add too that school didn't address the different tricks or techniques used in fashion versus wedding, or product versus sports.

I learned how to be a better photographer from my friend (pro with years of experience), and I learned why from school. Both influenced my work drastically. This is what I would say now...Take classes or get GOOD tutorials on BASIC photography. Learn it and understand why it works. Then go shoot with someone and pay close attention to what they do. Then, do it yourself until you can consistently achieve results.

A "photo course" like PPofA is great! And you get a certification or "credential" of professionalism. Art school and photogrpahy school in general will teach you alot but probably wont help as much as shooting with someone who is good at _____ fill in with your choice of photography. But I HAVE to emphasize the importance of fundamentals. These really are "tools".It's understanding how to use them that make you better.
EXAMPLE, then I'll shut up my dad is NOT a photographer, he knows how to shoot some great flower or deer pics using his little digital camera. he shoots tons of pictures and gets some nice shots. But he won't even pic my camera up. He's scared of it. He learned how to get results from his camera, and that's great, but he doesn't know the real how or why. So, you change something on him and he's lost. He can't use concepts or compensate because he just knows turn this knob and adjust this and you get good pictures.(alot of the time) The reason I give this example is that I actually know so called "pro's" that are essentially the same. They just know a few more menus, dials, or adjustments....

I sincerely hope this helps, and my apologies for the long post.



Oct 16, 2008 at 02:34 PM
miccullen
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p.1 #14 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


Sid Ceaser wrote:
I see lots of people that poo-poo Universities, and just as many university schooled that poo-poo learning on your own; both of these are valuable ways of educating yourself and helping foster your talents.

But make sure you take some level of business and marketing courses. That old adage of "20% shooting and 80% business management" rings true.


Such a good post. I'm a sports journalist - I've got a degree. I work mostly alongside people who (mostly) don't have degrees. In the end, it doesn't matter how you got to the job, the bottom line is - can you write?

Same with photography - can you get the shot? How you learned to do it is up to you, and the way you learn.

(I'm currently chasing around after a course to do here in Melbourne, so you can see how I learn best, I guess :-)



Oct 16, 2008 at 03:33 PM
Sid Ceaser
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p.1 #15 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


SeanP wrote:
Sid, thanks for the great reply! your advice sounds really solid. the distinction makes sense, i guess i really have to do a lot of thinking. i checked out your website and noticed youre out of nashua, nh, thats my hometown! im in manchester now myself. i like your work, nice shot of michael buckley


Sean, are you in Manchester right now? Have you checked out NHIA?

Feel free to stop by my studio in Nashua sometime if you have any ?'s about stuff. Or just to network

Cheers,
Sid




Oct 16, 2008 at 05:20 PM
SeanP
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p.1 #16 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


film chaser, thanks a lot for the insite and the post. its not too long

sid, ill definitely stop in sometime, im in nashua often my mom still lives there. I know a few people that go to NHIA and ive heard good things about it. i was actually going to take a workshop there over the summer but didnt have the time. ill have to do some more research.

i suppose going to a 4 year school to persue a BA for art seems like a really tough choice for me. i was planning on going to a school for fine art after highschool (i used to paint) but never did. right now i work fulltime and im taking classes online at SNHU for finance/economics (fun!). at first i was motivated about going back to school but im quickly getting burnt out and realizing im just not passionate enough about what is essentially a non-creative field. plus i realize its going to take forever. i figure with a shorter program i can just drop everything im doing and get away from it, and for that small amount of time really concentrate on photography and almost nothing else. if money and time wasnt an issue im almost sure i would go to a university for fine art. i guess i just need to think about for a long time and then do something. thanks for all the advice folks, it does help



Oct 17, 2008 at 04:47 PM
BigDan37
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p.1 #17 · anyone gone or going to school for photo?


I know this post is a little old but I dug it up in search. Thanks to everyone who responded. I had the same question as the OP.

I took 1 photography class in college 10 years ago and have been pretty much self taught ever since. I am proud of the work I do but always feel like I could be doing more if I took some classes. I will check out the resources listed above.



Nov 11, 2008 at 05:33 PM





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