fredmiranda.com
Login

  

  Previous versions of RustyBug's message #16942114 « M10-R vs M11 »

  

RustyBug
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: M10-R vs M11


As to the shutter response difference ... for someone who has never shot any other M, if you start with the M11, you won't have anything to compare it to.

A few things come to mind, but all are to the point of getting your hands on one. We can answer questions, but till you feel what it is like to use one in your hand, you can't understand the difference ... or, that a difference even matters to you.

Visit a camera store that carries them (Wibergs Foto in Stockholm )
Rent one
Seek out individuals / camera club / etc.
Find a workshop
Buy one from a source with an excellent return policy
Buy one from a reputable individual, reselling if desired for likely less money (lost) than a rental.

The one thing about the "buy and resell" thing is the amount TIME it takes to find what you're looking for, then to get it resold, to repurchase the next one, then to do it all again if you find out your prefer the other one.

There are cameras around to make the comparisons, but you likely are not going to recognize the difference until you have spent a significant amount of time with one, then switching to the other.

You could easily start with the M11 ... and reasonably, never know the difference.

Likely, a bigger question is the difference between using a rangefinder in the M11 / M10R or the new EVF. We all have our "reasons" why we take that first step into our Leica journey ... I think it is important to understand what those reasons are and what our intended destination(s) are for embarking on that journey.

For some, it's simply because "others" have gone the route of Leica, and the curiosity presents an itch they need to scratch, or they want to be part of "the cool kids" crowd. For others, they have been introduced to a "different way" that the rangefinder presents, and are taken favorably to it. Some, are pure "explorers" and we are kinda back to the curiosity thing. Yet, others have different, more specific reasons. The pragmatic simplicity or tactile interface can be other reasons, as well that folks enjoy working with the M series. Not everyone takes to it the same way, for the same reasons, but they typically fall into just a few categories ... spec chasers, usually are not one of those categories that align well to the M.

A bit of self-reflection (a very honest one) with yourself (share here or with others at the Leica store, etc.) can help you look beyond this question of entry point into a farther down the road destination journey objective. You may find answers in that moreover than the A vs. B aspect of the M10R vs. M11.

Despite my preference for the M10R, with no other info / insights recommendation ... an M11 isn't a "bad" move. It's just a different one. A Sony A7RV vs. Sony A7RIV vs. Sony A7RIII will have differences between them, but in the end it's still in the nature of the tool to be a Sony A7R. Same with the M series, it's still going to be a rangefinder with all manual lenses and tactile controls (Aperture, SS, ISO, Focus) and no autofocus, no Auto aperture (Auto ISO, Auto SS remains), regardless of whether it is the M10R or the M11.

The other stuff (battery life, shutter response, bottom plate, etc., you adapt to it. The more you use it, the more you adapt. In that regard, the camera has a way of "changing you". Most folks find the rangefinder to be the mechanism that has the strongest ability to change how you see the world, but even the minor / minutia pieces of the puzzle are things you grow with and likely they'll be of little / no significance to you as you progress in your journey. Right now, before you've taken a single step (i.e. never even touched one), the micro details loom large in your questions.

I get that we want to "not make a mistake" and make the "right choice" and go into analysis / comparative mode (been there, done that ... might do it again), but I strongly recommend you get your hands on one (either one). IF ... there is something about that one (either one) that is immediately putting you off in a way that you feel is insurmountable, unadaptable, then seek out the other one.

Imo, if you start with your hands on the M11 ... there won't be anything that immediately confronts you in a way that the solution will be >>> M10R. Even knowing there exists a difference in the shutter response, once you immerse yourself into the attention to the matter of shooting the rangefinder, that difference will evaporate into oblivion ... as a technical matter, vs. a pragmatic one. The difference between these two philosophies (technical vs. pragmatic) are not to be lost. I say that because many a person has leaned hard into former, not realizing how little it really matters when you get down to the point of the latter.

The differences are there (as noted) ... in the end, (imo) you'll find that such differences just aren't that significant, even if they are preferences. And, as preferences go ... yup, diff strokes, diff folks.

GL / HTH .. welcome to the journey.








Dec 06, 2025 at 12:33 AM
RustyBug
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: M10-R vs M11


As to the shutter response difference ... for someone who has never shot any other M, if you start with the M11, you won't have anything to compare it to.

A few things come to mind, but all are to the point of getting your hands on one. We can answer questions, but till you feel what it is like to use one in your hand, you can't understand the difference ... or, that a difference even matters to you.

Visit a camera store that carries them (Wibergs Foto in Stockholm )
Rent one
Seek out individuals / camera club / etc.
Find a workshop
Buy one from a source with an excellent return policy
Buy one from a reputable individual, reselling if desired for likely less money (lost) than a rental.

The one thing about the "buy and resell" thing is the amount TIME it takes to find what you're looking for, then to get it resold, to repurchase the next one, then to do it all again if you find out your prefer the other one.

There are cameras around to make the comparisons, but you likely are not going to recognize the difference until you have spent a signimficant amount of time with one, then switching to the other.

You could easily start with the M11 ... and reasonably, never know the difference.

Likely, a bigger question is the difference between using a rangefinder in the M11 / M10R or the new EVF. We all have our "reasons" why we take that first step into our Leica journey ... I think it is important to understand what those reasons are and what our intended destination(s) are for embarking on that journey.

For some, it's simply because "others" have gone the route of Leica, and the curiosity presents an itch they need to scratch, or they want to be part of "the cool kids" crowd. For others, they have been introduced to a "different way" that the rangefinder presents, and are taken favorably to it. Some, are pure "explorers" and we are kinda back to the curiosity thing. Yet, others have different, more specific reasons. The pragmatic simplicity or tactile interface can be other reasons, as well that folks enjoy working with the M series. Not everyone takes to it the same way, for the same reasons, but they typically fall into just a few categories ... spec chasers, usually are not one of those categories that align well to the M.

A bit of self-reflection (a very honest one) with yourself (share here or with others at the Leica store, etc.) can help you look beyond this question of entry point into a farther down the road destination journey objective. You may find answers in that moreover than the A vs. B aspect of the M10R vs. M11.

Despite my preference for the M10R, with no other info / insights recommendation ... an M11 isn't a "bad" move. It's just a different one. A Sony A7RV vs. Sony A7RIV vs. Sony A7RIII will have differences between them, but in the end it's still in the nature of the tool to be a Sony A7R. Same with the M series, it's still going to be a rangefinder with all manual lenses and tactile controls (Aperture, SS, ISO, Focus) and no autofocus, no Auto aperture (Auto ISO, Auto SS remains), regardless of whether it is the M10R or the M11.

The other stuff (battery life, shutter response, bottom plate, etc., you adapt to it. The more you use it, the more you adapt. In that regard, the camera has a way of "changing you". Most folks find the rangefinder to be the mechanism that has the strongest ability to change how you see the world, but even the minor / minutia pieces of the puzzle are things you grow with and likely they'll be of little / no significance to you as you progress in your journey. Right now, before you've taken a single step (i.e. never even touched one), the micro details loom large in your questions.

I get that we want to "not make a mistake" and make the "right choice" and go into analysis / comparative mode (been there, done that ... might do it again), but I strongly recommend you get your hands on one (either one). IF ... there is something about that one (either one) that is immediately putting you off in a way that you feel is insurmountable, unadaptable, then seek out the other one.

Imo, if you start with your hands on the M11 ... there won't be anything that immediately confronts you in a way that the solution will be >>> M10R. Even knowing there exists a difference in the shutter response, once you immerse yourself into the attention to the matter of shooting the rangefinder, that difference will evaporate into oblivion ... as a technical matter, vs. a pragmatic one. The difference between these two philosophies (technical vs. pragmatic) are not to be lost. I say that because many a person has leaned hard into former, not realizing how little it really matters when you get down to the point of the latter.

The differences are there (as noted) ... in the end, (imo) you'll find that such differences just aren't that significant, even if they are preferences. And, as preferences go ... yup, diff strokes, diff folks.

GL / HTH .. welcome to the journey.








Dec 05, 2025 at 06:31 AM
RustyBug
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: M10-R vs M11


As to the shutter response difference ... for someone who has never shot any other M, if you start with the M11, you won't have anything to compare it to.

A few things come to mind, but all are to the point of getting your hands on one. We can answer questions, but till you feel what it is like to use one in your hand, you can't understand the difference ... or, that a difference even matters to you.

Visit a camera store that carries them (Wibergs Foto in Stockholm )
Rent one
Seek out individuals / camera club / etc.
Find a workshop
Buy one from a source with an excellent return policy
Buy one from a reputable individual, reselling if desired for likely less money (lost) than a rental.

The one thing about the "buy and resell" thing is the amount TIME it takes to find what you're looking for, then to get it resold, to repurchase the next one, then to do it all again if you find out your prefer the other one.

There are cameras around to make the comparisons, but you likely are not going to recognize the difference until you have spent a signimficant amount of time with one, then switching to the other.

You could easily start with the M11 ... and reasonably, never know the difference.

Likely, a bigger question is the difference between using a rangefinder in the M11 / M10R or the new EVF. We all have our "reasons" why we take that first step into our Leica journey ... I think it is important to understand what those reasons are and what our intended destination(s) are for embarking on that journey.

For some, it's simply because "others" have gone the route of Leica, and the curiosity presents an itch they need to scratch, or they want to be part of "the cool kids" crowd. For others, they have been introduced to a "different way" that the rangefinder presents, and are taken favorably to it. Some, are pure "explorers" and we are kinda back to the curiosity thing. Yet, others have different, more specific reasons.

A bit of self-reflection (a very honest one) with yourself (share here or with others at the Leica store, etc.) can help you look beyond this question of entry point into a farther down the road destination journey objective. You may find answers in that moreover than the A vs. B aspect of the M10R vs. M11.

Despite my preference for the M10R, with no other info / insights recommendation ... an M11 isn't a "bad" move. It's just a different one. A Sony A7RV vs. Sony A7RIV vs. Sony A7RIII will have differences between them, but in the end it's still in the nature of the tool to be a Sony A7R. Same with the M series, it's still going to be a rangefinder with all manual lenses and tactile controls (Aperture, SS, ISO, Focus) and no autofocus, no Auto aperture (Auto ISO, Auto SS remains), regardless of whether it is the M10R or the M11.

The other stuff (battery life, shutter response, bottom plate, etc., you adapt to it. The more you use it, the more you adapt. In that regard, the camera has a way of "changing you". Most folks find the rangefinder to be the mechanism that has the strongest ability to change how you see the world, but even the minor / minutia pieces of the puzzle are things you grow with and likely they'll be of little / no significance to you as you progress in your journey. Right now, before you've taken a single step (i.e. never even touched one), the micro details loom large in your questions.

I get that we want to "not make a mistake" and make the "right choice" and go into analysis / comparative mode (been there, done that ... might do it again), but I strongly recommend you get your hands on one (either one). IF ... there is something about that one (either one) that is immediately putting you off in a way that you feel is insurmountable, unadaptable, then seek out the other one.

Imo, if you start with your hands on the M11 ... there won't be anything that immediately confronts you in a way that the solution will be >>> M10R. Even knowing there exists a difference in the shutter response, once you immerse yourself into the attention to the matter of shooting the rangefinder, that difference will evaporate into oblivion ... as a technical matter, vs. a pragmatic one. The difference between these two philosophies (technical vs. pragmatic) are not to be lost. I say that because many a person has leaned hard into former, not realizing how little it really matters when you get down to the point of the latter.

The differences are there (as noted) ... in the end, (imo) you'll find that such differences just aren't that significant, even if they are preferences. And, as preferences go ... yup, diff strokes, diff folks.

GL / HTH .. welcome to the journey.








Dec 05, 2025 at 06:19 AM
RustyBug
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: M10-R vs M11


As to the shutter response difference ... for someone who has never shot any other M, if you start with the M11, you won't have anything to compare it to.

A few things come to mind, but all are to the point of getting your hands on one. We can answer questions, but till you feel what it is like to use one in your hand, you can't understand the difference ... or, that a difference even matters to you.

Visit a camera store that carries them (Wibergs Foto in Stockholm )
Rent one
Seek out individuals / camera club / etc.
Find a workshop
Buy one from a source with an excellent return policy
Buy one from a reputable individual, reselling if desired for likely less money (lost) than a rental.

The one thing about the "buy and resell" thing is the amount TIME it takes to find what you're looking for, then to get it resold, to repurchase the next one, then to do it all again if you find out your prefer the other one.

There are cameras around to make the comparisons, but you likely are not going to recognize the difference until you have spent a signimficant amount of tiem with one, then switching to the other.

You could easily start with the M11 ... and reasonably, never know the difference.

Likely, a bigger question is the difference between using a rangefinder in the M11 / M10R or the new EVF. We all have our "reasons" why we take that first step into our Leica journey ... I think it is important to understand what those reasons are and what our intended destination(s) are for embarking on that journey.

For some, it's simply because "others" have gone the route of Leica, and the curiosity presents an itch they need to scratch, or they want to be part of "the cool kids" crowd. For others, they have been introduced to a "different way" that the rangefinder presents, and are taken favorably to it. Some, are pure "explorers" and we are kinda back to the curiosity thing. Yet, others have different, more specific reasons.

A bit of self-reflection (a very honest one) with yourself (share here or with others at the Leica store, etc.) can help you look beyond this question of entry point into a farther down the road destination journey objective. You may find answers in that moreover than the A vs. B aspect of the M10R vs. M11.

Despite my preference for the M10R, with no other info / insights recommendation ... an M11 isn't a "bad" move. It's just a different one. A Sony A7RV vs. Sony A7RIV vs. Sony A7RIII will have differences between them, but in the end it's still in the nature of the tool to be a Sony A7R. Same with the M series, it's still going to be a rangefinder with all manual lenses and tactile controls (Aperture, SS, ISO, Focus) and no autofocus, no Auto aperture (Auto ISO, Auto SS remains), regardless of whether it is the M10R or the M11.

The other stuff (battery life, shutter response, bottom plate, etc., you adapt to it. The more you use it, the more you adapt. In that regard, the camera has a way of "changing you". Most folks find the rangefinder to be the mechanism that has the strongest ability to change how you see the world, but even the minor / minutia pieces of the puzzle are things you grow with and likely they'll be of little / no significance to you as you progress in your journey. Right now, before you've taken a single step (i.e. never even touched one), the micro details loom large in your questions.

I get that we want to "not make a mistake" and make the "right choice" and go into analysis / comparative mode (been there, done that ... might do it again), but I strongly recommend you get your hands on one (either one). IF ... there is something about that one (either one) that is immediately putting you off in a way that you feel is insurmountable, unadaptable, then seek out the other one.

Imo, if you start with your hands on the M11 ... there won't be anything that immediately confronts you in a way that the solution will be >>> M10R. Even knowing there exists a difference in the shutter response, once you immerse yourself into the attention to the matter of shooting the rangefinder, that difference will evaporate into oblivion ... as a technical matter, vs. a pragmatic one. The difference between these two philosophies (technical vs. pragmatic) are not to be lost. I say that because many a person has leaned hard into former, not realizing how little it really matters when you get down to the point of the latter.

The differences are there (as noted) ... in the end, (imo) you'll find that such differences just aren't that significant, even if they are preferences. And, as preferences go ... yup, diff strokes, diff folks.

GL / HTH .. welcome to the journey.








Dec 05, 2025 at 06:18 AM
RustyBug
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: M10-R vs M11


As to the shutter response difference ... for someone who has never shot any other M, if you start with the M11, you won't have anything to compare it to.

A few things come to mind, but all are to the point of getting your hands on one. We can answer questions, but till you feel what it is like to use one in your hand, you can't understand the difference ... or, that a difference even matters to you.

Visit a camera store that carries them (Wibergs Foto in Stockholm )
Rent one
Seek out individuals / camera club / etc.
Find a workshop
Buy one from a source with an excellent return policy
Buy one from a reputable individual, reselling if desired for likely less money (lost) than a rental.

The one thing about the "buy and resell" threing is the amount TIME it takes to find what you're looking for, then to get it resold, to repurchase the next one, then to do it all again if you find out your prefer the other one.

There are cameras around to make the comparisons, but you likely are not going to recognize the difference until you have spent a signimficant amount of tiem with one, then switching to the other.

You could easily start with the M11 ... and reasonably, never know the difference.

Likely, a bigger question is the difference between using a rangefinder in the M11 / M10R or the new EVF. We all have our "reasons" why we take that first step into our Leica journey ... I think it is important to understand what those reasons are and what our intended destination(s) are for embarking on that journey.

For some, it's simply because "others" have gone the route of Leica, and the curiosity presents an itch they need to scratch, or they want to be part of "the cool kids" crowd. For others, they have been introduced to a "different way" that the rangefinder presents, and are taken favorably to it. Some, are pure "explorers" and we are kinda back to the curiosity thing. Yet, others have different, more specific reasons.

A bit of self-reflection (a very honest one) with yourself (share here or with others at the Leica store, etc.) can help you look beyond this question of entry point into a farther down the road destination journey objective. You may find answers in that moreover than the A vs. B aspect of the M10R vs. M11.

Despite my preference for the M10R, with no other info / insights recommendation ... an M11 isn't a "bad" move. It's just a different one. A Sony A7RV vs. Sony A7RIV vs. Sony A7RIII will have differences between them, but in the end it's still in the nature of the tool to be a Sony A7R. Same with the M series, it's still going to be a rangefinder with all manual lenses and tactile controls (Aperture, SS, ISO, Focus) and no autofocus, no Auto aperture (Auto ISO, Auto SS remains), regardless of whether it is the M10R or the M11.

The other stuff (battery life, shutter response, bottom plate, etc., you adapt to it. The more you use it, the more you adapt. In that regard, the camera has a way of "changing you". Most folks find the rangefinder to be the mechanism that has the strongest ability to change how you see the world, but even the minor / minutia pieces of the puzzle are things you grow with and likely they'll be of little / no significance to you as you progress in your journey. Right now, before you've taken a single step (i.e. never even touched one), the micro details loom large in your questions.

I get that we want to "not make a mistake" and make the "right choice" and go into analysis / comparative mode (been there, done that ... might do it again), but I strongly recommend you get your hands on one (either one). IF ... there is something about that one (either one) that is immediately putting you off in a way that you feel is insurmountable, unadaptable, then seek out the other one.

Imo, if you start with your hands on the M11 ... there won't be anything that immediately confronts you in a way that the solution will be >>> M10R. Even knowing there exists a difference in the shutter response, once you immerse yourself into the attention to the matter of shooting the rangefinder, that difference will evaporate into oblivion ... as a technical matter, vs. a pragmatic one. The difference between these two philosophies (technical vs. pragmatic) are not to be lost. I say that because many a person has leaned hard into former, not realizing how little it really matters when you get down to the point of the latter.

The differences are there (as noted) ... in the end, (imo) you'll find that such differences just aren't that significant, even if they are preferences. And, as preferences go ... yup, diff strokes, diff folks.

GL / HTH .. welcome to the journey.








Dec 05, 2025 at 06:16 AM
RustyBug
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: M10-R vs M11


As to the shutter response difference ... for someone who has never shot any other M, if you start with the M11, you won't have anything to compare it to.

A few things come to mind, but all are to the point of getting your hands on one. We can answer questions, but till you feel what it is like to use one in your hand, you can't understand the difference ... or, that a difference even matters to you.

Visit a camera store that carries them (Wibergs Foto in Stockholm )
Rent one
Seek out individuals / camera club / etc.
Find a workshop
Buy one from a source with an excellent return policy
Buy one from a reputable individual, reselling if desired for likely less money (lost) than a rental.

The one thing about the "buy and resell" threing is the amount TIME it takes to find what you're looking for, then to get it resold, to repurchase the next one, then to do it all again if you find out your prefer the other one.

There are cameras around to make the comparisons, but you likely are not going to recognize the difference until you have spent a signimficant amount of tiem with one, then switching to the other.

You could easily start with the M11 ... and reasonably, never know the difference.

Likely, a bigger question is the difference between using a rangefinder in the M11 / M10R or the new EVF. We all have our "reasons" why we take that first step into our Leica journey ... I think it is important to understand what those reasons are and what our intended destination(s) are for embarking on that journey.

For some, it's simply because "others" have gone the route of Leica, and the curiosity presents an itch they need to scratch, or they want to be part of "the cool kids" crowd. For others, they have been introduced to a "different way" that the rangefinder presents, and are taken favorably to it. Some, are pure "explorers" and we are kinda back to the curiosity thing. Yet, others have different, more specific reasons.

A bit of self-reflection (a very honest one) with yourself (share here or with others at the Leica store, etc.) can help you look beyond this question of entry point into a farther down the road destination journey objective. You may find answers in that moreover than the A vs. B aspect of the M10R vs. M11.

Despite my preference for the M10R, with no other info / insights recommendation ... an M11 isn't a "bad" move. It's just a different one. A Sony A7RV vs. Sony A7RIV vs. Sony A7RIII will have differences between them, but in the end it's still in the nature of the tool to be a Sony A7R. Same with the M series, it's still going to be a rangefinder with all manual lenses and tactile controls (Aperture, SS, ISO, Focus) and no autofocus, no Auto aperture (Auto ISO, Auto SS remains), regardless of whether it is the M10R or the M11.

The other stuff (battery life, shutter response, bottom plate, etc., you adapt to it. The more you use it, the more you adapt. In that regard, the camera has a way of "changing you". Most folks find the rangefinder to be the mechanism that has the strongest ability to change how you see the world, but even the minor / minutia pieces of the puzzle are things you grow with and likely they'll be of little / no significance to you as you progress in your journey. Right now, before you've taken a single step (i.e. never even touched one), the micro details loom large in your questions.

I get that we want to "not make a mistake" and make the "right choice" and go into analysis / comparative mode (been there, done that ... might do it again), but I strongly recommend you get your hands on one (either one). IF ... there is something about that one (either one) that is immediately putting you off in a way that you feel is insurmountable, unadaptable, then seek out the other one.

Imo, if you start with your hands on the M11 ... there won't be anything that immediately confronts you in a way that the solution will be >>> M10R. Even knowing there exists a difference in the shutter response, once you immerse yourself into the attention to the matter of shooting the rangefinder, that difference will evaporate into oblivion ... as a technical matter, vs. a pragmatic one. The difference between these two philosophies (technical vs. pragmatic) are not to be lost. I say that because many a person has leaned hard into former, not realizing how little it really matters when you get down to the point of the latter.

The differences are there (as noted) ... in the end, (imo) you'll find that such differences just aren't that significant, even if they are preferences.

GL / HTH .. welcome to the journey.








Dec 05, 2025 at 06:15 AM
RustyBug
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: M10-R vs M11


As to the shutter response difference ... for someone who has never shot any other M, if you start with the M11, you won't have anything to compare it to.

A few things come to mind, but all are to the point of getting your hands on one. We can answer questions, but till you feel what it is like to use one in your hand, you can't understand the difference ... or, that a difference even matters to you.

Visit a camera store that carries them (Wibergs Foto in Stockholm )
Rent one
Seek out individuals / camera club / etc.
Find a workshop
Buy one from a source with an excellent return policy
Buy one from a reputable individual, reselling if desired for likely less money (lost) than a rental.

The one thing about the "buy and resell" threing is the amount TIME it takes to find what you're looking for, then to get it resold, to repurchase the next one, then to do it all again if you find out your prefer the other one.

There are cameras around to make the comparisons, but you likely are not going to recognize the difference until you have spent a signimficant amount of tiem with one, then switching to the other.

You could easily start with the M11 ... and reasonably, never know the difference.

Likely, a bigger question is the difference between using a rangefinder in the M11 / M10R or the new EVF. We all have our "reasons" why we take that first step into our Leica journey ... I think it is important to understand what those reasons are and what our intended destination(s) are for embarking on that journey.

For some, it's simply because "others" have gone the route of Leica, and the curiosity presents an itch they need to scratch, or they want to be part of "the cool kids" crowd. For others, they have been introduced to a "different way" that the rangefinder presents, and are taken favorably to it. Some, are pure "explorers" and we are kinda back to the curiosity thing. Yet, others have different, more specific reasons.

A bit of self-reflection (a very honest one) with yourself (share here or with others at the Leica store, etc.) can help you look beyond this question of entry point into a farther down the road destination journey objective. You may find answers in that moreover than the A vs. B aspect of the M10R vs. M11.

Despite my preference for the M10R, with no other info / insights recommendation ... an M11 isn't a "bad" move. It's just a different one. A Sony A7RV vs. Sony A7RIV vs. Sony A7RIII will have differences between them, but in the end it's still in the nature of the tool to be a Sony A7R. Same with the M series, it's still going to be a rangefinder with all manual lenses and tactile controls (Aperture, SS, ISO, Focus) and no autofocus, no Auto aperture (Auto ISO, Auto SS remains), regardless of whether it is the M10R or the M11.

The other stuff (battery life, shutter response, bottom plate, etc., you adapt to it. The more you use it, the more you adapt. In that regard, the camera has a way of "changing you". Most folks find the rangefinder to be the mechanism that has the strongest ability to change how you see the world, but even the minor / minutia pieces of the puzzle are things you grow with and likely they'll be of little / no significance to you as you progress in your journey. Right now, before you've taken a single step (i.e. never even touched one), the micro details loom large in your questions.

I get that we want to "not make a mistake" and make the "right choice" and go into analysis / comparative mode (been there, done that ... might do it again), but I strongly recommend you get your hands on one (either one). IF ... there is something about that one (either one) that is immediately putting you off in a way that you feel is insurmountable, unadaptable, then seek out the other one.

Imo, if you start with your hands the M11 ... there won't be anything that immediately confronts you in a way that the solution will be >>> M10R. Even knowing there exists a difference in the shutter response, once you immerse yourself into the attention to the matter of shooting the rangefinder, that difference will evaporate into oblivion ... as a technical matter, vs. a pragmatic one. The difference between these two philosophies (technical vs. pragmatic) are not to be lost. I say that because many a person has leaned hard into former, not realizing how little it really matters when you get down to the point of the latter.

The differences are there (as noted) ... in the end, (imo) you'll find that such differences just aren't that significant, even if they are preferences.

GL / HTH .. welcome to the journey.








Dec 05, 2025 at 06:14 AM
RustyBug
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: M10-R vs M11


As to the shutter response difference ... for someone who has never shot any other M, if you start with the M11, you won't have anything to compare it to.

A few things come to mind, but all are to the point of getting your hands on one. We can answer questions, but till you feel what it is like to use one in your hand, you can't understand the difference ... or, that a difference even matters to you.

Visit a camera store that carries them (Wibergs Foto in Stockholm )
Rent one
Seek out individuals / camera club / etc.
Find a workshop
Buy one from a source with an excellent return policy
Buy one from a reputable individual, reselling if desired for likely less money (lost) than a rental.

The one thing about the "buy and resell" threing is the amount TIME it takes to find what you're looking for, then to get it resold, to repurchase the next one, then to do it all again if you find out your prefer the other one.

There are cameras around to make the comparisons, but you likely are not going to recognize the difference until you have spent a signimficant amount of tiem with one, then switching to the other.

You could easily start with the M11 ... and reasonably, never know the difference.

Likely, a bigger question is the difference between using a rangefinder in the M11 / M10R or the new EVF. We all have our "reasons" why we take that first step into our Leica journey ... I think it is important to understand what those reasons are and what our intended destination(s) are for embarking on that journey.

For some, it's simply because "others" have gone the route of Leica, and the curiosity presents an itch they need to scratch, or they want to be part of "the cool kids" crowd. For others, they have been introduced to a "different way" that the rangefinder presents, and are taken favorably to it. Some, are pure "explorers" and we are kinda back to the curiosity thing. Yet, others have different, more specific reasons.

A bit of self-reflection (a very honest one) with yourself (share here or with others at the Leica store, etc.) can help you look beyond this question of entry point into a farther down the road destination journey objective. You may find answers in that moreover than the A vs. B aspect of the M10R vs. M11.

Despite my preference for the M10R, with no other info / insights recommendation ... an M11 isn't a "bad" move. It's just a different one. A Sony A7RV vs. Sony A7RIV vs. Sony A7RIII will have differences between them, but in the end it's still in the nature of the tool to be a Sony A7R. Same with the M series, it's still going to be a rangefinder with all manual lenses and tactile controls (Aperture, SS, ISO, Focus) and no autofocus, no Auto aperture (Auto ISO, Auto SS remains), regardless of whether it is the M10R or the M11.

The other stuff (battery life, shutter response, bottom plate, etc., you adapt to it. The more you use it, the more you adapt. In that regard, the camera has a way of "changing you". Most folks find the rangefinder to be the mechanism that has the strongest ability to change how you see the world, but even the minor / minutia pieces of the puzzle are things you grow with and likely they'll be of little / no significance to you as you progress in your journey. Right now, before you've taken a single step (i.e. never even touched one), the micro details loom large in your questions.

I get that we want to "not make a mistake" and make the "right choice" and go into analysis / comparative mode (been there, done that ... might do it again), but I strongly recommend you get your hands on one (either one). IF ... there is something about that one (either one) that is immediately putting you off in a way that you feel is insurmountable, unadaptable, then seek out the other one.

Imo, if you start with your hands the M11 ... there won't be anything that immediately confronts you in a way that the solution will be >>> M10R. Even knowing there exists a difference in the shutter response, once you immerse yourself into the attention to the matter of shooting the rangefinder, that difference will evaporate into oblivion ... as a technical matter, vs. a pragmatic one. The difference between these two philosophies (technical vs. pragmatic) are not to be lost. I say that because many a person has leaned hard into former, not realizing how little it really matters when you get down to the point of the latter.

The differences are there (as noted) ... in the end, (imo) you'll find that such differences just aren't that significant, even if they are preferences.

GL / HTH .. welcome to the journey.






Dec 05, 2025 at 06:14 AM
RustyBug
Offline
Upload & Sell: On
Re: M10-R vs M11


As to the shutter response difference ... for someone who has never shot any other M, if you start with the M11, you won't have anything to compare it to.

A few things come to mind, but all are to the point of getting your hands on one. We can answer questions, but till you feel what it is like to use one in your hand, you can't understand the difference ... or, that a difference even matters to you.

Visit a camera store that carries them (Wibergs Foto in Stockholm )
Rent one
Seek out individuals / camera club / etc.
Find a workshop
Buy one from a source with an excellent return policy
Buy one from a reputable individual, reselling if desired for likely less money (lost) than a rental.

The one thing about the "buy and resell" threing is the amount TIME it takes to find what you're looking for, then to get it resold, to repurchase the next one, then to do it all again if you find out your prefer the other one.

There are cameras around to make the comparisons, but you likely are not going to recognize the difference until you have spent a signimficant amount of tiem with one, then switching to the other.

You could easily start with the M11 ... and reasonably, never know the difference.

Likely, a bigger question is the difference between using a rangefinder in the M11 / M10R or the new EVF. We all have our "reasons" why we take that first step into our Leica journey ... I think it is important to understand what those reasons are and what our intended destination(s) are for embarking on that journey.

For some, it's simply because "others" have gone the route of Leica, and the curiosity presents an itch they need to scratch, or they want to be part of "the cool kids" crowd. For others, they have been introduced to a "different way" that the rangefinder presents, and are taken favorably to it. Some, are pure "explorers" and we are kinda back to the curiosity thing. Yet, others have different, more specific reasons.

A bit of self-reflection (a very honest one) with yourself (share here or with others at the Leica store, etc.) can help you look beyond this question of entry point into a farther down the road destination journey objective. You may find answers in that moreover than the A vs. B aspect of the M10R vs. M11.

Despite my preference for the M10R, with no other info / insights recommendation ... an M11 isn't a "bad" move. It's just a different one. A Sony A7RV vs. Sony A7RIV vs. Sony A7RIII will have differences between them, but in the end it's still in the nature of the tool to be a Sony A7R. Same with the M series, it's still going to be a rangefinder with all manual lenses and tactile controls (Aperture, SS, ISO, Focus) and no autofocus, no Auto aperture (Auto ISO, Auto SS remains), regardless of whether it is the M10R or the M11.

The other stuff (battery life, shutter response, bottom plate, etc., you adapt to it. The more you use it, the more you adapt. In that regard, the camera has a way of "changing you". Most folks find the rangefinder to be the mechanism that has the strongest ability to change how you see the world, but even the minor / minutia pieces of the puzzle are things you grow with and likely they'll be of little / no significance to you as you progress in your journey. Right now, before you've taken a single step (i.e. never even touched one), the micro details loom large in your questions.

I get that we want to "not make a mistake" and make the "right choice" and go into analysis / comparative mode (been there, done that ... might do it again), but I strongly recommend you get your hands on one (either one). IF ... there is something about that one (either one) that is immediately putting your off in a way that you feel is insurmountable, unadaptable, then seek out the other one.

Imo, if you start with your hands the M11 ... there won't be anything that immediately confronts you in a way that the solution will be >>> M10R. Even knowing there exists a difference in the shutter response, once you immerse yourself into the attention to the matter of shooting the rangefinder, that difference will evaporate into oblivion ... as a technical matter, vs. a pragmatic one. The difference between these two philosophies (technical vs. pragmatic) are not to be lost. I say that because many a person has leaned hard into former, not realizing how little it really matters when you get down to the point of the latter.

The differences are there (as noted) ... in the end, (imo) you'll find that such differences just aren't that significant, even if they are preferences.

GL / HTH .. welcome to the journey.






Dec 05, 2025 at 06:13 AM





  Previous versions of RustyBug's message #16942114 « M10-R vs M11 »